Promote NoPhone

Promote NoPhone

[Caleb Herbert]

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Most people cannot access or afford decent Replicant devices.  It is
impractical to suggest people use them.

F-Droid is not the answer.  It is a last resort for device addicts to
gain partial freedom.  We should primarily suggest people to not have
mobile devices and to donate to Replicant.

We should teach them how to live a happy life without them, and how to
do it.  We should recognize the needs people fulfill with their phones,
and offer replacements.

We should show testimonies of people who do this every day successfully,
and show that it is possible to live life with user respecting devices.

We need to break the idea that someone is weird or destitute for not
having a mobile device.  We need to show that lots of people do it every
day and that they are happier for it.

We could do similar things with students and MacBooks/Chromebooks in
schools, documenting and supporting those who resist or raise awareness
in their communities.

-- 
Caleb Herbert
KE0VVT
816-892-9669
https://bluehome.net/csh

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Re: Promote NoPhone

[Caleb Herbert]

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I forgot to mention my proposed strategies for living without a device.

 - Contacts notepad
 - Pen
 - Light
 - Calculator
 - Watch
 - Map
 - Music player
 - Flash drive
 - Camera

All of these things can be found in miniature versions that will all fit
in the pocket or on a keychain.

You may be able to find an SD card adapter with wireless functionality,
USB, Thunderbolt, and Type C all in one.  This would allow you to
transfer files to any device.

You may be able to find a music player that takes an SD card, so you can
put your flash drive's contents into your music player.

You can also carry earbuds that wind up inside a keychain, so it stays
neat and conserves space.

All of these things combined will provide a pleasant life experience
without the need for a mobile device.  I currently carry a notepad, a
pen, a map, a flash drive, a light, a map, and a calculator.  It works
very well and is much easier to get than a Replicant device.  The only
thing I'm really missing is a keychain camera.

-- 
Caleb Herbert
KE0VVT
816-892-9669
https://bluehome.net/csh

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Re: Promote NoPhone

[quiliro]

On Sun, September 15, 2019 9:48 pm, Caleb Herbert wrote:
> I forgot to mention my proposed strategies for living without a device.
>
>  - Contacts notepad
>  - Pen
>  - Light
>  - Calculator
>  - Watch
>  - Map
>  - Music player
>  - Flash drive
>  - Camera

I like your idea. I do not usually carry a phone and when I do, it is not
a smart phone. But, regarding your idea, I do not have the need for a
music player. I'd rather have a way to organize my thought in text or have
them become text by a speech-to-text application which does not require
permanent dependence on it. I also need something that will help me
organize my contacts. And that is about it. The rest of the stuff could be
in a big monitor with a big keyboard.


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Re: “Promote NoPhone” is a path to nowhere

[Dmitry Alexandrov]

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Caleb Herbert <csh@bluehome.net> wrote:
> Most people cannot access or afford decent Replicant devices.

No people can access or afford _decent_ Replicant devices: they are simply nonexistent.

A device, listed at https://replicant.us (which would _not_ fully work under it anyway), could be obtained very easily and for a laughable price, though.

> It is impractical to suggest people use them.

Here I am fully agree with you.

> F-Droid is not the answer.  It is a last resort for device addicts to gain partial freedom.  We should primarily suggest people to not have mobile devices
> We should teach them how to live a happy life without them, and how to do it.

_That_, not some silly ‘statutory rape’ stuff above, is what really makes RMS views startling: he is a luddite.  I am hardly able to realise, how could a man who discover and devote his life to promote the most revolutionary social phenomenon of last 30 years and a man who believes that we (a) are able to and (b) should try to resist the technical progress, because besides positive consequences it entails some negative too, be the same person, but the mobile telephony is not the only point where he does so.

And yes, both mobile phones per se and ‘phones’ that you mean (that is, handheld PCs with modem, navigator, camera, etc, etc built-in) have been enormous progress.  Calling people, that make use of them, ‘addicts’ is nothing more reasonable, that calling ‘addicts’ people who have got ‘addicted’ to Internet or ‘addicted’ to hot water.

> We should recognize the needs people fulfill with their phones, and offer replacements.  We should show testimonies of people who do this every day successfully, and show that it is possible to live life with user respecting devices.

Well, you know: it is fully possible to live you life without Internet and hot water.  I could provide you testimonies from people who do this successfully, if you will.  ;-)

Luddism is a path that leads no nowhere.

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Re: “Promote NoPhone” is a path to nowhere

[Caleb Herbert]

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On 09/16/2019 03:23 AM, Dmitry Alexandrov wrote:
> Caleb Herbert <csh@bluehome.net> wrote:
>> Most people cannot access or afford decent Replicant devices.
> 
> No people can access or afford _decent_ Replicant devices: they are simply nonexistent.

I consider the ancient Galaxy S2 decent.

> A device, listed at https://replicant.us (which would _not_ fully work under it anyway), could be obtained very easily and for a laughable price, though.

The price is expensive.  Scarcity of after-market devices still in good
condition, combined with the price of paying someone to flash it, costs
five hundred dollars last time I checked.  Most people are not willing
to do that.  It is easier to ask them to stop using phones and give
donations to people working on an acceptable mobile computer.

>> F-Droid is not the answer.  It is a last resort for device addicts to gain partial freedom.  We should primarily suggest people to not have mobile devices
>> We should teach them how to live a happy life without them, and how to do it.
> 
> _That_, not some silly ‘statutory rape’ stuff above, is what really makes RMS views startling: he is a luddite.  I am hardly able to realise, how could a man who discover and devote his life to promote the most revolutionary social phenomenon of last 30 years and a man who believes that we (a) are able to and (b) should try to resist the technical progress, because besides positive consequences it entails some negative too, be the same person, but the mobile telephony is not the only point where he does so.

Unfortunately, a solution does not exist.  We need to pay people to make
the changes we want to see in the world.  I'm sure you'll be more
willing to give more once you start having to manually route your trips
with a dry-erase marker and a map.  This will actually get us somewhere
by paying for the necessary labor we need to make progress.

> And yes, both mobile phones per se and ‘phones’ that you mean (that is, handheld PCs with modem, navigator, camera, etc, etc built-in) have been enormous progress.  Calling people, that make use of them, ‘addicts’ is nothing more reasonable, that calling ‘addicts’ people who have got ‘addicted’ to Internet or ‘addicted’ to hot water.

It is possible to use a phone without addictive behavior, but most
phones are not designed this way.  Companies usually design apps to keep
people on them all the time instead of getting what they need done and
moving on with their lives.

>> We should recognize the needs people fulfill with their phones, and offer replacements.  We should show testimonies of people who do this every day successfully, and show that it is possible to live life with user respecting devices.
> 
> Well, you know: it is fully possible to live you life without Internet and hot water.  I could provide you testimonies from people who do this successfully, if you will.  ;-)

Internet and hot water do not violate our community standards.

> Luddism is a path that leads no nowhere.

We are not anti-technology.  Evaluating technologies based on a set of
community values makes rejection of technologies inevitable in some
cases.  When possible, we adapt current technologies to fit community
standards.  We use WebRTC, GitLab, Firefox, CHIRP, and VOIP, for example.

Even the Amish use modern technology.  To say Luddites hate modernity is
false.  If we can make something work with our community's values, we
will use it.

It is bad to abandon your values and follow society.  It is bad to stay
follow your values and abandon society.  It is virtuous to stay true to
your values and change yourself to keep contributing meaningfully to
society.

-- 
Caleb Herbert
KE0VVT
816-892-9669
https://bluehome.net/csh

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Re: “Promote NoPhone” is a path to nowhere

[Caleb Herbert]

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On 09/16/2019 03:23 AM, Dmitry Alexandrov wrote:> Caleb Herbert
<csh@bluehome.net> wrote:
>> Most people cannot access or afford decent Replicant devices.
>
> No people can access or afford _decent_ Replicant devices: they are
simply nonexistent.
I consider the ancient Galaxy S2 decent.

> A device, listed at https://replicant.us (which would _not_ fully work
under it anyway), could be obtained very easily and for a laughable
price, though.
The price is expensive.  Scarcity of after-market devices still in good
condition, combined with the price of paying someone to flash it, costs
five hundred dollars last time I checked.  Most people are not willing
to do that.  It is easier to ask them to stop using phones and give
donations to people working on an acceptable mobile computer.

>> F-Droid is not the answer.  It is a last resort for device addicts to
gain partial freedom.  We should primarily suggest people to not have
mobile devices
>> We should teach them how to live a happy life without them, and how
to do it.
>
> _That_, not some silly ‘statutory rape’ stuff above, is what really
makes RMS views startling: he is a luddite.  I am hardly able to
realise, how could a man who discover and devote his life to promote the
most revolutionary social phenomenon of last 30 years and a man who
believes that we (a) are able to and (b) should try to resist the
technical progress, because besides positive consequences it entails
some negative too, be the same person, but the mobile telephony is not
the only point where he does so.
Unfortunately, a solution does not exist.  We need to pay people to make
the changes we want to see in the world.  I'm sure you'll be more
willing to give more once you start having to manually route your trips
with a dry-erase marker and a map.  This will actually get us somewhere
by paying for the necessary labor we need to make progress.

> And yes, both mobile phones per se and ‘phones’ that you mean (that
is, handheld PCs with modem, navigator, camera, etc, etc built-in) have
been enormous progress.  Calling people, that make use of them,
‘addicts’ is nothing more reasonable, that calling ‘addicts’ people who
have got ‘addicted’ to Internet or ‘addicted’ to hot water.
It is possible to use a phone without addictive behavior, but most
phones are not designed this way.  Companies usually design apps to keep
people on them all the time instead of getting what they need done and
moving on with their lives.

>> We should recognize the needs people fulfill with their phones, and
offer replacements.  We should show testimonies of people who do this
every day successfully, and show that it is possible to live life with
user respecting devices.
>
> Well, you know: it is fully possible to live you life without Internet
and hot water.  I could provide you testimonies from people who do this
successfully, if you will.  ;-)
Internet and hot water do not violate our community standards.

> Luddism is a path that leads no nowhere.
We are not anti-technology.  Evaluating technologies based on a set of
community values makes rejection of technologies inevitable in some
cases.  When possible, we adapt current technologies to fit community
standards.  We use WebRTC, GitLab, Firefox, CHIRP, and VOIP, for example.

Even the Amish use modern technology.  To say Luddites hate modernity is
false.  If we can make something work with our community's values, we
will use it.

It is bad to abandon your values and follow society.  It is bad to stay
follow your values and abandon society.  It is virtuous to stay true to
your values and change yourself to keep contributing meaningfully to
society.

-- 
Caleb Herbert
KE0VVT
816-892-9669
https://bluehome.net/csh



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Samsung Galaxy S2 for Replicant (was: “Promote NoPhone” is a path to nowhere)

[Dmitry Alexandrov]

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Caleb Herbert <csh@bluehome.net> wrote:
> On 09/16/2019 03:23 AM, Dmitry Alexandrov wrote:
>> Caleb Herbert <csh@bluehome.net> wrote:
>>> Most people cannot access or afford decent Replicant devices.
>>
>> No people can access or afford _decent_ Replicant devices: they are simply nonexistent.
>
> I consider the ancient Galaxy S2 decent.

A device without GPS and hardware graphic acceleration (unless you are willing to run nonfree software on CPU)?  Or even without Wi-Fi and Bluetooth (unless you are willing to run nonfree firmware)?

That’s not saying about its obsolescence, which involves not only quantitative downsides but qualitative too: such as absence of LTE modem.

>> A device, listed at https://replicant.us (which would _not_ fully work under it anyway), could be obtained very easily and for a laughable price, though.
>
> The price is expensive.  Scarcity of after-market devices still in good condition, combined with the price of paying someone to flash it

Replicant is not Libreboot, it does not require any flashing.  It is installed just like as any other Android-based OS.

> costs five hundred dollars last time I checked.

Wow!  That’s for sure a local issue.  I’ve just checked, in Moscow you could get a _new_ Galaxy S2 for 85 $ (which I still found unacceptably expensive for a 2011 Android phone, but if someone really needs it new), used — from 25 $.

So if you’d really like to recommend someone to buy Galaxy S2, I suggest you just submit to necessity to recommend him to run some more nonfree software in his browser, and order it somewhere else: at Ali a ‘refurbished’ device with shipping included would be about 40 $ [1].

[1] https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-samsuns-galaxy-s2.html

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Re: Samsung Galaxy S2 for Replicant (was: “Promote NoPhone” is a path to nowhere)

[Caleb Herbert]

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On 09/17/2019 09:38 AM, Dmitry Alexandrov wrote:
> Caleb Herbert <csh@bluehome.net> wrote:
>> I consider the ancient Galaxy S2 decent.
> 
> A device without GPS and hardware graphic acceleration (unless you are willing to run nonfree software on CPU)?  Or even without Wi-Fi and Bluetooth (unless you are willing to run nonfree firmware)?

I don't care about GPS or Bluetooth.  I hate wireless stuff.  I have
autism and I always find the devices lose charge at the worst time.  I
just want it to always work.

I would happily use a Wi-Fi dongle over an OTG cable.

> That’s not saying about its obsolescence, which involves not only quantitative downsides but qualitative too: such as absence of LTE modem.

I've heard the dwindling of 2G makes the device impossible to use.
Perhaps it really doesn't work anymore.

> Replicant is not Libreboot, it does not require any flashing.  It is installed just like as any other Android-based OS.

That's a relief, although I don't know what all is involved in rooting
and changing the OS on a mobile device.  Last time I tried, it was hard
for me to do.

>> costs five hundred dollars last time I checked.
> 
> Wow!  That’s for sure a local issue.  I’ve just checked, in Moscow you could get a _new_ Galaxy S2 for 85 $ (which I still found unacceptably expensive for a 2011 Android phone, but if someone really needs it new), used — from 25 $.

Oh, wow!  I might have gotten one many years ago if I knew this!  I've
been jonesing for a camera.  (Remind me again: Which Replicant device is
fortunate to have at least the back camera working?)

Thank you for all your help!

-- 
Caleb Herbert
KE0VVT
816-892-9669
https://bluehome.net/csh

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Re: Samsung Galaxy S2 for Replicant

[Dmitry Alexandrov]

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Caleb Herbert <csh@bluehome.net> wrote:
> On 09/17/2019 09:38 AM, Dmitry Alexandrov wrote:
>> Caleb Herbert <csh@bluehome.net> wrote:
>>> I consider the ancient Galaxy S2 decent.
>>
>> A device without GPS and hardware graphic acceleration (unless you are willing to run nonfree software on CPU)?  Or even without Wi-Fi and Bluetooth (unless you are willing to run nonfree firmware)?
>
> I don't care about GPS or Bluetooth.  I hate wireless stuff. ... I would happily use a Wi-Fi dongle over an OTG cable.

You’ve dismissed three point, but there is still one left: hardware graphics rendering.  Your common sense might suggest that it is the least important issue, but no, quite the opposite: it is considered essential for any *droid-running PC, so many programs just won’t run without it.

>> Replicant is not Libreboot, it does not require any flashing.  It is installed just like as any other Android-based OS.
>
> That's a relief, although I don't know what all is involved in rooting and changing the OS on a mobile device.  Last time I tried, it was hard for me to do.

Not to insult anyone, but that’s growing into tendency: the most extreme software freedom advocates I meet on the Net turns out to be those who actually does need even a thousandth of it.

>>> costs five hundred dollars last time I checked.
>>
>> Wow!  That’s for sure a local issue.  I’ve just checked, in Moscow you could get a _new_ Galaxy S2 for 85 $ (which I still found unacceptably expensive for a 2011 Android phone, but if someone really needs it new), used — from 25 $.
>
> Oh, wow!  I might have gotten one many years ago if I knew this!

Ehm...  Is that a sarcasm?  You’ve just called to promote ‘nophone’, have not you?  :-)

Or the wrong paragraph cited?  If neither, I have to clarify, that I did _not_ suggest you or anyone to order it from Moscow: shipping from Russia to US would be pricey and slow, benefits of new over used do not worth it.  Not to say, that a small store [0] specializing on selling unsold legacy phones might be unwilling to deal with international shipping at all.

[0] https://www.avito.ru/i137078443

To anyone lacks it available for a sane price in his locality, I am recommending exactly what I have recommended — to order it from China:

>> So if you’d really like to recommend someone to buy Galaxy S2, I suggest you just submit to necessity to recommend him to run some more nonfree software in his browser, and order it somewhere else: at Ali a ‘refurbished’ device with shipping included would be about 40 $ [1].
>>
>> [1] https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-samsuns-galaxy-s2.html

> I've been jonesing for a camera.  (Remind me again: Which Replicant device is fortunate to have at least the back camera working [without nonfree software and loadable firmware]?)

I never checked.  I you’d like me to read https://replicant.us for you, then it says that i9100, n7000 and n51xx have both cameras working with free firmware, i9300 — back only, while i9250, n7100 have neither.

> Thank you for all your help!

Not at all.

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Re: Samsung Galaxy S2 for Replicant

[Caleb Herbert]

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On 09/18/2019 05:38 AM, Dmitry Alexandrov wrote:
> You’ve dismissed three point, but there is still one left: hardware graphics rendering.  Your common sense might suggest that it is the least important issue, but no, quite the opposite: it is considered essential for any *droid-running PC, so many programs just won’t run without it.

I thought it would just make everything really slow, falling back to
software rendering.  Thanks for the correction! :-)

> Not to insult anyone, but that’s growing into tendency: the most extreme software freedom advocates I meet on the Net turns out to be those who actually does need even a thousandth of it.

Could you rephrase that?  I can't quite understand "who actually does
need even a thousandth of it."  Are you saying even one of the smallest
rights are very important?

Richard Stallman said: "I've never installed GNU/Linux."  Although I
can't program, I can somewhat read code, and I can ask questions about
it and find someone who can modify the code to do what I want.

> Ehm...  Is that a sarcasm?  You’ve just called to promote ‘nophone’, have not you?  :-)

If most people can acquire a Replicant device for just $25 or $80, maybe
not everyone has to go as far as use the NoPhone.  Although I'm
habituated to it at this point and see no reason to change.

-- 
Caleb Herbert
KE0VVT
816-892-9669
https://bluehome.net/csh

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Re: Samsung Galaxy S2 for Replicant

[Dmitry Alexandrov]

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Caleb Herbert <csh@bluehome.net> wrote:
> On 09/18/2019 05:38 AM, Dmitry Alexandrov wrote:
>> Not to insult anyone, but that’s growing into tendency: the most extreme software freedom advocates I meet on the Net turns out to be those who actually does need even a thousandth of it.
>
> Could you rephrase that?  I can't quite understand "who actually does need even a thousandth of it."

s/does/does not/, of course.  Sorry.

>> Ehm...  Is that a sarcasm?  You’ve just called to promote ‘nophone’, have not you?  :-)
>
> If most people can acquire a Replicant device for just $25 or $80, maybe not everyone has to go as far as use the NoPhone

The problem, as I tried to make clear for you, that a ‘Replicant device’ is a thing that just not exist in this world.

First shipments of another try on GNU/Linux phone, now by puri.sm, are scheduled as soon as for the next week, though.

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Re: Samsung Galaxy S2 for Replicant

[Caleb Herbert]

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On 09/19/2019 09:16 AM, Dmitry Alexandrov wrote:
> Caleb Herbert <csh@bluehome.net> wrote:
>> On 09/18/2019 05:38 AM, Dmitry Alexandrov wrote:
>>> Not to insult anyone, but that’s growing into tendency: the most extreme software freedom advocates I meet on the Net turns out to be those who actually does need even a thousandth of it.
>>
>> Could you rephrase that?  I can't quite understand "who actually does need even a thousandth of it."
> 
> s/does/does not/, of course.  Sorry.

You discount the value of indirect exercise of changing software?  I
can't program myself, but I can find someone who can.

-- 
Caleb Herbert
KE0VVT
816-892-9669
https://bluehome.net/csh

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