On 09/16/2019 03:23 AM, Dmitry Alexandrov wrote: > Caleb Herbert wrote: >> Most people cannot access or afford decent Replicant devices. > > No people can access or afford _decent_ Replicant devices: they are simply nonexistent. I consider the ancient Galaxy S2 decent. > A device, listed at https://replicant.us (which would _not_ fully work under it anyway), could be obtained very easily and for a laughable price, though. The price is expensive. Scarcity of after-market devices still in good condition, combined with the price of paying someone to flash it, costs five hundred dollars last time I checked. Most people are not willing to do that. It is easier to ask them to stop using phones and give donations to people working on an acceptable mobile computer. >> F-Droid is not the answer. It is a last resort for device addicts to gain partial freedom. We should primarily suggest people to not have mobile devices >> We should teach them how to live a happy life without them, and how to do it. > > _That_, not some silly ‘statutory rape’ stuff above, is what really makes RMS views startling: he is a luddite. I am hardly able to realise, how could a man who discover and devote his life to promote the most revolutionary social phenomenon of last 30 years and a man who believes that we (a) are able to and (b) should try to resist the technical progress, because besides positive consequences it entails some negative too, be the same person, but the mobile telephony is not the only point where he does so. Unfortunately, a solution does not exist. We need to pay people to make the changes we want to see in the world. I'm sure you'll be more willing to give more once you start having to manually route your trips with a dry-erase marker and a map. This will actually get us somewhere by paying for the necessary labor we need to make progress. > And yes, both mobile phones per se and ‘phones’ that you mean (that is, handheld PCs with modem, navigator, camera, etc, etc built-in) have been enormous progress. Calling people, that make use of them, ‘addicts’ is nothing more reasonable, that calling ‘addicts’ people who have got ‘addicted’ to Internet or ‘addicted’ to hot water. It is possible to use a phone without addictive behavior, but most phones are not designed this way. Companies usually design apps to keep people on them all the time instead of getting what they need done and moving on with their lives. >> We should recognize the needs people fulfill with their phones, and offer replacements. We should show testimonies of people who do this every day successfully, and show that it is possible to live life with user respecting devices. > > Well, you know: it is fully possible to live you life without Internet and hot water. I could provide you testimonies from people who do this successfully, if you will. ;-) Internet and hot water do not violate our community standards. > Luddism is a path that leads no nowhere. We are not anti-technology. Evaluating technologies based on a set of community values makes rejection of technologies inevitable in some cases. When possible, we adapt current technologies to fit community standards. We use WebRTC, GitLab, Firefox, CHIRP, and VOIP, for example. Even the Amish use modern technology. To say Luddites hate modernity is false. If we can make something work with our community's values, we will use it. It is bad to abandon your values and follow society. It is bad to stay follow your values and abandon society. It is virtuous to stay true to your values and change yourself to keep contributing meaningfully to society. -- Caleb Herbert KE0VVT 816-892-9669 https://bluehome.net/csh