From: Betsy Garrett <betsy.luebbe.garrett@gmail.com>
To: TechLibre <nthomas@techlibre.net>
Cc: libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
Subject: Re: Is Stallman nuts?
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2019 16:37:23 -0400 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAJeDeAdY8BsPDkp1zxK1HvQwbGWe4QiUTi_7go+bTQV76Gsnvg@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <5866D9B2-E2FE-4331-87A5-FE1B5FAEC8CE@techlibre.net>
I’m going to have to unsubscribe from this list until this discussion has
run its course.
On Sun, Sep 15, 2019 at 4:32 PM TechLibre <nthomas@techlibre.net> wrote:
> My 17 year old can't go to the US Virgin Islands with out my consent and
> neither did any of these young ladies without parental/state actor's help.
>
> The consent issue and very poor to criminal parenting are intertwined.
>
> In a society where Billy Ray helps Hanna Montana become Miley, I guess we
> have to unravel that on an FSF thread by blaming Stallman for raising
> exactly that issue.
>
> I have teenagers with 2 passports. I live in a country with 1 million
> brand new Venezuelan refugees.
>
> Trust me, the consent and law 'popular opinions' are the problem, zero
> kids/girls/women will be pulled off the stroll in Lima Peru by this mailing
> list.
>
> The same applies in Cambridge, Mass.
>
> The tragedy is, there's enough money and brain power on this list to
> change hundreds of individual lives beyond FreeSoftware, but no keyboards
> would be involved and you'd most certainly end up around people who make
> you uncomfortable.
>
> I'm going to hold my record of fixing zero of Stallman's bugs, and
> Epstein's look all done.
>
> There's this one bug though...where a young woman might think getting on a
> plane with a rich guy for the weekend is a good idea and her best option to
> make money.
>
> Damn I hate that bug.
> --
> Freesoftware is Agorism for people who are good at computer.
>
> On September 15, 2019 2:40:03 PM GMT-05:00, MARY-ANNE WOLF <
> mgwmgw@comcast.net> wrote:
> >Let me make sure that I understand the distinction that is being
> >claimed here. A young lady who is in fact young enough to be below the
> >age of giving sexual consent "presents herself as being willing" to
> >Epstein, an adult man aged over 21. This happens with multiple
> >underage girls on more than one occasion.
> >
> >So if Epstein has sex with each underage girl after she "presents
> >herself as being willing", are you arguing that statutory rape has not
> >occured? If so, on what grounds?
> >
> >If it were one girl, we could debate whether Epstein believed that the
> >young lady was older than was the case. If we are talking about
> >multiple underage girls, using an airplane named "The Lolita Express"
> >that becomes much less plausible. I think we can assume he knew how
> >young they were.
> >
> >So if a girl too young to give sexual consent tries to do so, and an
> >adult male repeatedly acts as if he believes that she is old enough to
> >give consent, does her action get him off the hook? I do not think so.
> >And if this happens with girl after girl after girl after girl?
> >Really?
> >
> >If you believe that statutory rape did occur, then what does presenting
> >herself as willing have to do with it? Why bring that up? Legally
> >speaking, she was raped, no matter what she said first.
> >
> >So how is Stallman not trying to excuse statutory rape by what he
> >posted?
> >
> >Mary-Anne
> >
> >
> >> On September 15, 2019 at 2:46 PM Michael Downey <michael@downey.net>
> >wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> I have not read the commentary articles, nor do I intend to. I have,
> >on the other hand, read the comments by the FSF President and Board
> >member on the mailing list in question. They are entirely inappropriate
> >comments for someone in his public position to be making.
> >>
> >> I spend my day job trying to convince large governments and NGO's of
> >the value of free software. Once again they see the FSF leader behaving
> >inappropriately and I have to make excuses for him and the organization
> >that continues to provide him safe harbor, and explain that they don't
> >represent the values of the free software movement.
> >>
> >> I'm exhausted of doing that. The board has had many opportunities to
> >remove him from his role yet each time back down.
> >>
> >> As a single individual associate member, I can't do much. But I can
> >(and have) revoked my 15+ year membership and am removing all
> >references to the FSF in materials from my day job. We just can't be
> >associated with that kind of public behavior any more.
> >>
> >> The letter I sent to the FSF follows. I'll be unsubscribing from this
> >mailing list too, unfortunately, but encourage others to reconsider
> >their support until the board acts in a way true to its public charter.
> >For the sake of software freedom, I hope my absence is short-lived.
> >>
> >> - Michael
> >>
> >> FSF associate member #2352 (since 2004-05-20) here. I also accepted
> >the Free Software Award for Projects of Social Benefit several years
> >ago.
> >>
> >> It’s unfortunate to hear yet another incident about the FSF
> >President’s unacceptable behavior in the news again.
> >>
> >> Despite all the good things this organization does, this continued
> >behavior while holding the role makes it untenable for me to publicly
> >support the FSF. And that’s a bad thing for software freedom.
> >>
> >> Software freedom is an important human right, but if one has to
> >publicly trample others’ human rights in order to get there, one
> >undermines one’s own cause.
> >>
> >> With his continued behavior over the years, Stallman has done damage
> >to our movement that will take a very long time to repair. It’s time
> >for him to step down and let the next generation lead this critical
> >movement into the future.
> >>
> >> Should he be unwilling to do so, I note that based upon my review of
> >the FSF bylaws, the Board has the power to remove the person in office
> >of President with or without cause upon vote of the board. (Article VI,
> >Section 7.)
> >>
> >> Until that time, I must regrettably cancel my associate membership.
> >>
> >> /s/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> libreplanet-discuss mailing list
> >> libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
> >> https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >libreplanet-discuss mailing list
> >libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
> >https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
> _______________________________________________
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> https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2019-09-15 20:42 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 83+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2019-09-15 17:35 Is Stallman nuts? MARY-ANNE WOLF
2019-09-15 18:01 ` lily via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-15 18:37 ` Thomas Lord
2019-09-15 20:20 ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2019-09-15 20:34 ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2019-09-15 20:45 ` Thomas Lord
2019-09-15 20:59 ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2019-09-16 0:53 ` No, Stallman isn't "nuts" nor does he deserve less freedom of speech J.B. Nicholson
2019-09-16 1:47 ` Steven Sullam
2019-09-16 2:35 ` Taking credit for your own choices and free software is neither anti-commercial nor anti-profit J.B. Nicholson
2019-09-16 10:19 ` No, Stallman isn't "nuts" nor does he deserve less freedom of speech Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-16 10:29 ` Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-16 10:33 ` Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-16 14:41 ` Caleb Herbert
2019-09-16 16:40 ` 'smee via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-16 2:07 ` Eric Schultz
2019-09-17 0:18 ` quiliro
2019-09-17 6:50 ` Ole Aamot
2019-09-16 15:03 ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2019-09-20 17:26 ` Is Stallman nuts? Will Hill
2019-09-20 18:26 ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2019-09-21 22:33 ` Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-15 18:37 ` C. Cossé
2019-09-15 20:41 ` Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-15 18:46 ` Michael Downey
2019-09-15 19:40 ` MARY-ANNE WOLF
2019-09-15 19:54 ` Federico klez Culloca
2019-09-15 20:30 ` TechLibre
2019-09-15 20:37 ` Betsy Garrett [this message]
2019-09-15 20:44 ` Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-15 20:49 ` TechLibre
2019-09-15 20:53 ` Andrew Luke Nesbit
2019-09-15 19:34 ` TechLibre
2019-09-15 19:41 ` Robert Call (Bob)
2019-09-15 20:30 ` Thomas Lord
2019-09-15 22:14 ` Mark Phelan
2019-09-16 11:54 ` Patrick 'P. J.' McDermott
2019-09-16 14:54 ` Caleb Herbert
2019-09-16 16:36 ` Patrick 'P. J.' McDermott
2019-09-16 21:11 ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2019-09-16 17:49 ` Deb Nicholson
2019-09-16 20:08 ` alimiracle
2019-09-17 13:50 ` quiliro
2019-09-17 14:22 ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2019-09-17 17:04 ` Ole Aamot
2019-09-17 18:03 ` quiliro
2019-09-17 18:29 ` Danny Spitzberg
2019-09-17 19:35 ` 'smee via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-17 20:37 ` quiliro
2019-09-22 3:47 ` Richard Stallman
2019-09-17 18:47 ` lily via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-17 19:13 ` Thomas Lord
2019-09-17 19:23 ` Aaron Wolf
2019-09-17 21:13 ` Caleb Herbert
2019-09-17 23:29 ` A. Mani
2019-09-19 4:34 ` Richard Stallman
2019-09-19 11:52 ` A. Mani
2019-09-19 14:32 ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2019-09-20 4:47 ` Richard Stallman
2019-09-18 5:30 ` Joel Holder
2019-09-17 19:22 ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2019-09-17 20:27 ` quiliro
2019-09-18 0:00 ` Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-18 0:03 ` Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-18 0:04 ` Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-18 0:23 ` Caleb Herbert
2019-09-18 0:59 ` Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-18 1:12 ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2019-09-18 4:35 ` quiliro
2019-09-18 5:28 ` Isaac David
2019-09-18 15:42 ` Caleb Herbert
2019-09-18 23:13 ` Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-19 1:57 ` Caleb Herbert
2019-09-19 0:25 ` Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-19 0:28 ` Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-19 0:37 ` Diplomatic activism [was Re: Is Stallman nuts?] Aaron Wolf
2019-09-21 19:52 ` Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-18 23:44 ` Is Stallman nuts? Adrienne G. Thompson
2019-09-19 0:31 ` Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss
[not found] <mailman.1435.1568576087.2187.libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org>
2019-09-16 22:12 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2019-09-16 22:20 ` Dr. Tom McKellips
[not found] <mailman.1925.1568747595.2189.libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org>
2019-09-17 20:05 ` Cinder Roxley
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2019-09-18 2:49 Jeffrey Haines via libreplanet-discuss
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