From: Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss <libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org>
To: Aaron Wolf <wolftune@riseup.net>
Cc: libreplanet-discuss <libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org>
Subject: Re: Diplomatic activism [was Re: Is Stallman nuts?]
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2019 20:52:30 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20190921205230.bd96ef30f78777b60b055c5c@minifree.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <3d7ff306-d647-fe96-735b-42595fea92bf@riseup.net>
[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 6516 bytes --]
you should know, I used to be the "thug" type of activist. it took me a
long time to learn diplomacy, but over the years i have mastered the
art.
I've always seen the free software leadership (including RMS) as being
diplomatic (while not compromising), which is something that I respect.
I don't respect thuggish behaviour, because it is counter productive.
I fully expect that, regardless of RMS's position at the FSF, he'll
continue to do what he does. Afterall, he was never a paid employee of
the FSF and he mostly funded himself by e.g. charging conferences for
him to do talks at them
I wish him well.
On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 17:37:21 -0700
Aaron Wolf <wolftune@riseup.net> wrote:
> The "thug" style of activists can be so extreme and closed-minded that
> they lash out at fellow activists for merely *proposing* diplomacy.
> Most don't recognize that their thuggishness is itself the most
> dangerous liability, undermining solidarity and credibility. These
> days, it's sometimes hard to tell the difference between a bad-faith
> thug / troll / bot and a good-faith but thuggish activist.
>
> I'll emphasize what I said before about the need for Restorative
> Justice approaches and attitudes.
>
> And a great resource for diplomatic activism:
> http://loveandradio.org/2014/02/the-silver-dollar/
> and follow up http://loveandradio.org/2017/02/how-to-argue/
>
> Thanks for emphasizing the language of diplomacy. I find that useful
> and will embrace that term going forward.
>
> On 2019-09-18 5:28 p.m., Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss wrote:
> >
> > there is a hidden 4th item on that bullet point list:
> > * empathy. understanding what the other is thinking, and seeing
> > where they are coming from. "know your enemy"
> >
> > Many activists fail on this aspect. They fail to understand what
> > they're opposing.
> >
> > On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 01:25:16 +0100 Leah Rowe
> > <info@minifree.org> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> there are two types of equality activist:
> >> * diplomat
> >> * thug
> >>
> >> I'm of the diplomatic variety. The ones that you had a negative
> >> experience with are the thug type.
> >>
> >> It's the diplomatic ones that make the real change. People like me,
> >> who do real work rather than just shouting on twitter or on mailing
> >> lists.
> >>
> >> Real work involves:
> >> * befriending people, even if you despise them
> >> * listening to people
> >> * making them realize that you're not a threat
> >>
> >> This is what I mean by diplomacy. You simply make friends, and make
> >> people see your point of view.
> >>
> >> A diplomat does their best to convince people and to make allies.
> >>
> >> By comparison, the thug type simply complains and alienates people.
> >>
> >> On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 23:35:00 -0500
> >> quiliro@riseup.net wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Tue, September 17, 2019 7:59 pm, Leah Rowe wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> meritocracy is silly in terms of advancing equality, because it
> >>>> implies an equal playing field - nothing is further from the
> >>>> truth
> >>>>
> >>>> women (and LGBT people, and black people etc) are routinely
> >>>> descriminated against, and less likely to get involved in tech.
> >>>>
> >>>> we need to spend more effort bringing such people into the
> >>>> movement. since you know, they actually form at least half the
> >>>> planet and have the same intelligence/potential.
> >>>>
> >>>> I say this as an LGBT person.
> >>>>
> >>>> If you have the choice between a more qualified male candidate
> >>>> and less qualified female candidate, hire the female candidate -
> >>>> and train/educate her. it's important.
> >>>
> >>> I do have a priority to support these groups. But I have decided
> >>> to stop support for women. I have been attacked by them 3 times
> >>> because I speak my mind out. (I know I should speak less.) The
> >>> other groups have taken my opinions as such, not as personal
> >>> attacks. A couple groups that defend women's rights have attacked
> >>> me instead of exchanging ideas and accepting that I do not have
> >>> to do as they wish unless they convince me. So I have decided to
> >>> remove my support for women unless one of these groups proves
> >>> they deserve my support again by being reciprocal in supporting
> >>> my own values and the people in our group instead of attacking us.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> libreplanet-discuss mailing list
> >>> libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
> >>> https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
> >>
> >> --
> >> Leah Rowe <info@minifree.org>
> >> Company Director & Libreboot developer
> >> https://minifree.org/ https://libreboot.org/
> >>
> >> Do you know you have rights?
> >> The right to privacy, free speech, the right to read
> >> and the right to learn. The right not to be spied on
> >> and censored by the government.
> >>
> >> Defend freedom. Use free (free as in freedom) software.
> >> Spread freedom. Tell everyone you know about it!
> >> https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html
> >>
> >> Minifree Ltd, trading as Ministry of Freedom.
> >> Registered in England, registration No. 9361826
> >> VAT Registration No. GB202190462
> >> Minifree Ltd, 19 Hilton Road, Canvey Island
> >> Essex SS8 9QA, United Kingdom
> >> United Kingdom
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > libreplanet-discuss mailing list
> > libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
> > https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> libreplanet-discuss mailing list
> libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
> https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
--
Leah Rowe <info@minifree.org>
Company Director & Libreboot developer
https://minifree.org/ https://libreboot.org/
Do you know you have rights?
The right to privacy, free speech, the right to read
and the right to learn. The right not to be spied on
and censored by the government.
Defend freedom. Use free (free as in freedom) software.
Spread freedom. Tell everyone you know about it!
https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html
Minifree Ltd, trading as Ministry of Freedom.
Registered in England, registration No. 9361826
VAT Registration No. GB202190462
Minifree Ltd, 19 Hilton Road, Canvey Island
Essex SS8 9QA, United Kingdom
United Kingdom
[-- Attachment #1.2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --]
[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 183 bytes --]
_______________________________________________
libreplanet-discuss mailing list
libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2019-09-21 19:53 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 79+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2019-09-15 17:35 Is Stallman nuts? MARY-ANNE WOLF
2019-09-15 18:01 ` lily via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-15 18:37 ` Thomas Lord
2019-09-15 20:20 ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2019-09-15 20:34 ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2019-09-15 20:45 ` Thomas Lord
2019-09-15 20:59 ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2019-09-16 0:53 ` No, Stallman isn't "nuts" nor does he deserve less freedom of speech J.B. Nicholson
2019-09-16 1:47 ` Steven Sullam
2019-09-16 2:35 ` Taking credit for your own choices and free software is neither anti-commercial nor anti-profit J.B. Nicholson
2019-09-16 10:19 ` No, Stallman isn't "nuts" nor does he deserve less freedom of speech Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-16 10:29 ` Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-16 10:33 ` Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-16 14:41 ` Caleb Herbert
2019-09-16 16:40 ` 'smee via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-16 2:07 ` Eric Schultz
2019-09-17 0:18 ` quiliro
2019-09-17 6:50 ` Ole Aamot
2019-09-16 15:03 ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2019-09-20 17:26 ` Is Stallman nuts? Will Hill
2019-09-20 18:26 ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2019-09-21 22:33 ` Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-15 18:37 ` C. Cossé
2019-09-15 20:41 ` Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-15 18:46 ` Michael Downey
2019-09-15 19:40 ` MARY-ANNE WOLF
2019-09-15 19:54 ` Federico klez Culloca
2019-09-15 20:30 ` TechLibre
2019-09-15 20:37 ` Betsy Garrett
2019-09-15 20:44 ` Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-15 20:49 ` TechLibre
2019-09-15 20:53 ` Andrew Luke Nesbit
2019-09-15 19:34 ` TechLibre
2019-09-15 19:41 ` Robert Call (Bob)
2019-09-15 20:30 ` Thomas Lord
2019-09-15 22:14 ` Mark Phelan
2019-09-16 11:54 ` Patrick 'P. J.' McDermott
2019-09-16 14:54 ` Caleb Herbert
2019-09-16 16:36 ` Patrick 'P. J.' McDermott
2019-09-16 21:11 ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2019-09-16 17:49 ` Deb Nicholson
2019-09-16 20:08 ` alimiracle
2019-09-17 13:50 ` quiliro
2019-09-17 14:22 ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2019-09-17 17:04 ` Ole Aamot
2019-09-17 18:03 ` quiliro
2019-09-17 18:29 ` Danny Spitzberg
2019-09-17 19:35 ` 'smee via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-17 20:37 ` quiliro
2019-09-22 3:47 ` Richard Stallman
2019-09-17 18:47 ` lily via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-17 19:13 ` Thomas Lord
2019-09-17 19:23 ` Aaron Wolf
2019-09-17 21:13 ` Caleb Herbert
2019-09-17 23:29 ` A. Mani
2019-09-19 4:34 ` Richard Stallman
2019-09-19 11:52 ` A. Mani
2019-09-19 14:32 ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2019-09-20 4:47 ` Richard Stallman
2019-09-18 5:30 ` Joel Holder
2019-09-17 19:22 ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2019-09-17 20:27 ` quiliro
2019-09-18 0:00 ` Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-18 0:03 ` Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-18 0:04 ` Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-18 0:23 ` Caleb Herbert
2019-09-18 0:59 ` Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-18 1:12 ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2019-09-18 4:35 ` quiliro
2019-09-18 5:28 ` Isaac David
2019-09-18 15:42 ` Caleb Herbert
2019-09-18 23:13 ` Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-19 1:57 ` Caleb Herbert
2019-09-19 0:25 ` Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-19 0:28 ` Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-19 0:37 ` Diplomatic activism [was Re: Is Stallman nuts?] Aaron Wolf
2019-09-21 19:52 ` Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss [this message]
2019-09-18 23:44 ` Is Stallman nuts? Adrienne G. Thompson
2019-09-19 0:31 ` Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
List information: https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=20190921205230.bd96ef30f78777b60b055c5c@minifree.org \
--to=libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org \
--cc=info@minifree.org \
--cc=wolftune@riseup.net \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).