From: Aaron Wolf <wolftune@riseup.net>
To: libreplanet-discuss <libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org>
Subject: Diplomatic activism [was Re: Is Stallman nuts?]
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2019 17:37:21 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <3d7ff306-d647-fe96-735b-42595fea92bf@riseup.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20190919012816.8fdf63bbe65433bd39ead40f@minifree.org>
The "thug" style of activists can be so extreme and closed-minded that
they lash out at fellow activists for merely *proposing* diplomacy. Most
don't recognize that their thuggishness is itself the most dangerous
liability, undermining solidarity and credibility. These days, it's
sometimes hard to tell the difference between a bad-faith thug / troll /
bot and a good-faith but thuggish activist.
I'll emphasize what I said before about the need for Restorative Justice
approaches and attitudes.
And a great resource for diplomatic activism:
http://loveandradio.org/2014/02/the-silver-dollar/
and follow up http://loveandradio.org/2017/02/how-to-argue/
Thanks for emphasizing the language of diplomacy. I find that useful and
will embrace that term going forward.
On 2019-09-18 5:28 p.m., Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss wrote:
>
> there is a hidden 4th item on that bullet point list:
> * empathy. understanding what the other is thinking, and seeing where
> they are coming from. "know your enemy"
>
> Many activists fail on this aspect. They fail to understand what
> they're opposing.
>
> On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 01:25:16 +0100 Leah Rowe
> <info@minifree.org> wrote:
>
>>
>> there are two types of equality activist:
>> * diplomat
>> * thug
>>
>> I'm of the diplomatic variety. The ones that you had a negative
>> experience with are the thug type.
>>
>> It's the diplomatic ones that make the real change. People like me,
>> who do real work rather than just shouting on twitter or on mailing
>> lists.
>>
>> Real work involves:
>> * befriending people, even if you despise them
>> * listening to people
>> * making them realize that you're not a threat
>>
>> This is what I mean by diplomacy. You simply make friends, and make
>> people see your point of view.
>>
>> A diplomat does their best to convince people and to make allies.
>>
>> By comparison, the thug type simply complains and alienates people.
>>
>> On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 23:35:00 -0500
>> quiliro@riseup.net wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, September 17, 2019 7:59 pm, Leah Rowe wrote:
>>>>
>>>> meritocracy is silly in terms of advancing equality, because it
>>>> implies an equal playing field - nothing is further from the truth
>>>>
>>>> women (and LGBT people, and black people etc) are routinely
>>>> descriminated against, and less likely to get involved in tech.
>>>>
>>>> we need to spend more effort bringing such people into the
>>>> movement. since you know, they actually form at least half the
>>>> planet and have the same intelligence/potential.
>>>>
>>>> I say this as an LGBT person.
>>>>
>>>> If you have the choice between a more qualified male candidate and
>>>> less qualified female candidate, hire the female candidate - and
>>>> train/educate her. it's important.
>>>
>>> I do have a priority to support these groups. But I have decided to
>>> stop support for women. I have been attacked by them 3 times because
>>> I speak my mind out. (I know I should speak less.) The other groups
>>> have taken my opinions as such, not as personal attacks. A couple
>>> groups that defend women's rights have attacked me instead of
>>> exchanging ideas and accepting that I do not have to do as they wish
>>> unless they convince me. So I have decided to remove my support for
>>> women unless one of these groups proves they deserve my support
>>> again by being reciprocal in supporting my own values and the
>>> people in our group instead of attacking us.
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> libreplanet-discuss mailing list
>>> libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
>>> https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
>>
>> --
>> Leah Rowe <info@minifree.org>
>> Company Director & Libreboot developer
>> https://minifree.org/ https://libreboot.org/
>>
>> Do you know you have rights?
>> The right to privacy, free speech, the right to read
>> and the right to learn. The right not to be spied on
>> and censored by the government.
>>
>> Defend freedom. Use free (free as in freedom) software.
>> Spread freedom. Tell everyone you know about it!
>> https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html
>>
>> Minifree Ltd, trading as Ministry of Freedom.
>> Registered in England, registration No. 9361826
>> VAT Registration No. GB202190462
>> Minifree Ltd, 19 Hilton Road, Canvey Island
>> Essex SS8 9QA, United Kingdom
>> United Kingdom
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
> https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
>
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2019-09-19 0:37 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 79+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2019-09-15 17:35 Is Stallman nuts? MARY-ANNE WOLF
2019-09-15 18:01 ` lily via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-15 18:37 ` Thomas Lord
2019-09-15 20:20 ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2019-09-15 20:34 ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2019-09-15 20:45 ` Thomas Lord
2019-09-15 20:59 ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2019-09-16 0:53 ` No, Stallman isn't "nuts" nor does he deserve less freedom of speech J.B. Nicholson
2019-09-16 1:47 ` Steven Sullam
2019-09-16 2:35 ` Taking credit for your own choices and free software is neither anti-commercial nor anti-profit J.B. Nicholson
2019-09-16 10:19 ` No, Stallman isn't "nuts" nor does he deserve less freedom of speech Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-16 10:29 ` Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-16 10:33 ` Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-16 14:41 ` Caleb Herbert
2019-09-16 16:40 ` 'smee via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-16 2:07 ` Eric Schultz
2019-09-17 0:18 ` quiliro
2019-09-17 6:50 ` Ole Aamot
2019-09-16 15:03 ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2019-09-20 17:26 ` Is Stallman nuts? Will Hill
2019-09-20 18:26 ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2019-09-21 22:33 ` Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-15 18:37 ` C. Cossé
2019-09-15 20:41 ` Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-15 18:46 ` Michael Downey
2019-09-15 19:40 ` MARY-ANNE WOLF
2019-09-15 19:54 ` Federico klez Culloca
2019-09-15 20:30 ` TechLibre
2019-09-15 20:37 ` Betsy Garrett
2019-09-15 20:44 ` Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-15 20:49 ` TechLibre
2019-09-15 20:53 ` Andrew Luke Nesbit
2019-09-15 19:34 ` TechLibre
2019-09-15 19:41 ` Robert Call (Bob)
2019-09-15 20:30 ` Thomas Lord
2019-09-15 22:14 ` Mark Phelan
2019-09-16 11:54 ` Patrick 'P. J.' McDermott
2019-09-16 14:54 ` Caleb Herbert
2019-09-16 16:36 ` Patrick 'P. J.' McDermott
2019-09-16 21:11 ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2019-09-16 17:49 ` Deb Nicholson
2019-09-16 20:08 ` alimiracle
2019-09-17 13:50 ` quiliro
2019-09-17 14:22 ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2019-09-17 17:04 ` Ole Aamot
2019-09-17 18:03 ` quiliro
2019-09-17 18:29 ` Danny Spitzberg
2019-09-17 19:35 ` 'smee via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-17 20:37 ` quiliro
2019-09-22 3:47 ` Richard Stallman
2019-09-17 18:47 ` lily via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-17 19:13 ` Thomas Lord
2019-09-17 19:23 ` Aaron Wolf
2019-09-17 21:13 ` Caleb Herbert
2019-09-17 23:29 ` A. Mani
2019-09-19 4:34 ` Richard Stallman
2019-09-19 11:52 ` A. Mani
2019-09-19 14:32 ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2019-09-20 4:47 ` Richard Stallman
2019-09-18 5:30 ` Joel Holder
2019-09-17 19:22 ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2019-09-17 20:27 ` quiliro
2019-09-18 0:00 ` Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-18 0:03 ` Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-18 0:04 ` Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-18 0:23 ` Caleb Herbert
2019-09-18 0:59 ` Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-18 1:12 ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2019-09-18 4:35 ` quiliro
2019-09-18 5:28 ` Isaac David
2019-09-18 15:42 ` Caleb Herbert
2019-09-18 23:13 ` Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-19 1:57 ` Caleb Herbert
2019-09-19 0:25 ` Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-19 0:28 ` Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-19 0:37 ` Aaron Wolf [this message]
2019-09-21 19:52 ` Diplomatic activism [was Re: Is Stallman nuts?] Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-18 23:44 ` Is Stallman nuts? Adrienne G. Thompson
2019-09-19 0:31 ` Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss
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