mailing list mirror (one of many)
 help / color / mirror / code / Atom feed
From: "Randall S. Becker" <>
To: "'Felipe Contreras'" <>,
	"'martin'" <>,
	"'Andreas Schwab'" <>
	"'Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason'" <>,
	"'Junio C Hamano'" <>
Subject: RE: [PATCH 5/5] config: add default aliases
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2021 18:00:32 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <03ce01d76f8d$b0cfa8b0$126efa10$> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <60df7ee3128d6_28bb2086c@natae.notmuch>

On July 2, 2021 5:02 PM, Felipe Contreras wrote:
>To: Randall S. Becker <>; 'martin' <>; 'Felipe Contreras' <>;
>'Andreas Schwab' <>
>Cc:; 'Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason' <>; 'Junio C Hamano' <>
>Subject: RE: [PATCH 5/5] config: add default aliases
>Randall S. Becker wrote:
>> In my opinion, default aliases are not a good path. If a command is
>> intended to be part of the git command set, then it should be a
>> builtin not an alias.
>Commands cannot be overriden, aliases can.
>All SCM projects have aliases, except git. Why do you think that is?

I do not think my intent was conveyed. Default aliases made by the product provider, regardless of who that is, are not a good path. If I was RCS, I would not make an alias that everyone had to take. Same for git. git has aliases, but they are for the user. If the end-user team wants to implement a particular set of primitives for their environment, that's fantastic, and entirely possible in git. But I do not want to be constrained by someone else's primitives that are not core product.

>> Users have their own alias setups and implied conflicts are just going
>> to be confusing and end up in help, examples, presentations, and so
>> forth.
>There's no conflict. Either you use the alias or you don't. Just like today.

Then what is the point of this? I want my aliases, not someone else's. Again, if it is a core git alias, it is not an alias, it is a supported command and I should see it in the git help -a output.

>> If you want a default alias set, publish it as part of an extension
>> set, like the bash-completion, so that the user has to take action to
>> install them in their environment. Do not do this in the base git
>> product by default.
>The whole point is to help users so they don't have to do extra configurations.

The whole point is that a user team should give thought to the functional extensions they want, as a team, which is where aliases come in. We, as git contributors, should not be telling them what their extensions are.

>Today git is pretty much unbearable without a configuration. Default aliases would help quell some of that pain.

Git is entirely bearable particularly in my own pons and medulla. I have three bash aliases, two for log, one for removing tags and no git aliases and I am highly productive.

Would that make ECLIPSE intolerable?

>> If I was a committer on this project, I would have to be much more
>> convinced that there is long-term value in this series than appears on
>> the surface.
> 1. It doesn't affect anyone negatively
> 2. You don't have to use them if you don't want to  3. They don't affect your aliases, even if they have the same name  4. Everyone has
>aliases  5. Every SCM in history has had aliases
>What more would you need?
>> I am sorry if I am coming across too strongly on this subject, but I
>> do think we are overloading alias capability and intruding on a domain
>> that should be reserved for our users, not ourselves.
>But why? We provide plenty of defaults so that users don't have to configure git in order for the program to be useful. And we will
>continue to add more defaults.

I remain unconvinced and I found the assertion #5 somewhat specious and incorrect. SCCS and RCS use Shell aliases. There are no aliases in ClearCase. Granted Perforce has them, but that is not a sufficient differentiator to use that over git by any stretch.

Why are we trying to create a standard set of aliases? I do not like the RCS primitives - never did - as a base and would not use them. If the command set is not sufficient, then it should be extended. If it is sufficient but complex for some, *they* can create aliases. I come back to my point that a community-based set of alias extensions should be managed as a distinct Open Source product that can be cloned from some cloud service and maintained independently from git. There is nothing stopping that from happening, except perhaps for something like an include operation in .gitconfig, which I think would be either a really good idea, or subject to a CVE, or both.

I've expressed my opinion, and it's not my decision to adopt this. So whatever happens, as long as it does not pollute my community's expectation of git. Although, providing aliases will handcuff future command naming.

  parent reply	other threads:[~2021-07-02 22:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 41+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-07-02 10:05 [PATCH 0/5] Default aliases Felipe Contreras
2021-07-02 10:05 ` [PATCH 1/5] test: add missing whitespaces Felipe Contreras
2021-07-02 10:05 ` [PATCH 2/5] config: trivial style fix Felipe Contreras
2021-07-02 10:05 ` [PATCH 3/5] config: trivial struct initialization cleanup Felipe Contreras
2021-07-02 10:05 ` [PATCH 4/5] config: initialize origin_type correctly Felipe Contreras
2021-07-02 10:05 ` [PATCH 5/5] config: add default aliases Felipe Contreras
2021-07-02 10:10   ` Andreas Schwab
2021-07-02 10:17     ` Felipe Contreras
2021-07-02 10:31       ` Andreas Schwab
2021-07-02 10:46         ` Felipe Contreras
2021-07-02 10:54           ` Andreas Schwab
2021-07-02 10:44       ` martin
2021-07-02 10:54         ` Felipe Contreras
2021-07-02 11:15           ` martin
2021-07-02 13:26             ` Randall S. Becker
2021-07-02 13:41               ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-07-02 14:15                 ` Randall S. Becker
2021-07-02 14:43                   ` martin
2021-07-02 20:44                     ` Felipe Contreras
2021-07-02 22:03                     ` Randall S. Becker
2021-07-02 22:32                       ` Felipe Contreras
2021-07-02 15:39               ` Junio C Hamano
2021-07-02 20:41                 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-07-02 21:02               ` Felipe Contreras
2021-07-02 21:40                 ` martin
2021-07-02 22:16                   ` Felipe Contreras
2021-07-02 22:00                 ` Randall S. Becker [this message]
2021-07-02 22:31                   ` Felipe Contreras
2021-07-02 21:12             ` Felipe Contreras
2021-07-02 21:31               ` martin
2021-07-02 22:14                 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-07-02 11:32   ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-07-02 21:58     ` Felipe Contreras
2021-07-02 22:38       ` martin
2021-07-02 23:48         ` Felipe Contreras
2021-07-05 14:02         ` Randall S. Becker
2021-07-06 15:27           ` Randall S. Becker
2021-07-06 21:59           ` Felipe Contreras
2021-07-10 15:30           ` Philip Oakley
2021-07-03 10:50   ` Jeff King
2021-07-06 21:54     ` Felipe Contreras

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:

  List information:

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to='03ce01d76f8d$b0cfa8b0$126efa10$' \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this public inbox

This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).