From: Felipe Contreras <felipe.contreras@gmail.com>
To: "Randall S. Becker" <rsbecker@nexbridge.com>,
'Felipe Contreras' <felipe.contreras@gmail.com>,
'martin' <test2@mfriebe.de>,
'Andreas Schwab' <schwab@linux-m68k.org>
Cc: git@vger.kernel.org,
"'Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason'" <avarab@gmail.com>,
"'Junio C Hamano'" <gitster@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: [PATCH 5/5] config: add default aliases
Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2021 17:31:43 -0500 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <60df93cfb0f44_28bb2084f@natae.notmuch> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <03ce01d76f8d$b0cfa8b0$126efa10$@nexbridge.com>
Randall S. Becker wrote:
> On July 2, 2021 5:02 PM, Felipe Contreras wrote:
> >To: Randall S. Becker <rsbecker@nexbridge.com>; 'martin' <test2@mfriebe.de>; 'Felipe Contreras' <felipe.contreras@gmail.com>;
> >'Andreas Schwab' <schwab@linux-m68k.org>
> >Cc: git@vger.kernel.org; 'Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason' <avarab@gmail.com>; 'Junio C Hamano' <gitster@pobox.com>
> >Subject: RE: [PATCH 5/5] config: add default aliases
> >
> >Randall S. Becker wrote:
> >
> >> In my opinion, default aliases are not a good path. If a command is
> >> intended to be part of the git command set, then it should be a
> >> builtin not an alias.
> >
> >Commands cannot be overriden, aliases can.
> >
> >All SCM projects have aliases, except git. Why do you think that is?
>
> I do not think my intent was conveyed. Default aliases made by the
> product provider, regardless of who that is, are not a good path.
Why?
> If I was RCS, I would not make an alias that everyone had to take.
Nobody has to take them.
> Same for git. git has aliases, but they are for the user. If the
> end-user team wants to implement a particular set of primitives for
> their environment, that's fantastic, and entirely possible in git. But
> I do not want to be constrained by someone else's primitives that are
> not core product.
Nobody is constrained.
> >> Users have their own alias setups and implied conflicts are just going
> >> to be confusing and end up in help, examples, presentations, and so
> >> forth.
> >
> >There's no conflict. Either you use the alias or you don't. Just like today.
>
> Then what is the point of this? I want my aliases, not someone else's.
Then use your aliases. This patch is not for you.
> Again, if it is a core git alias, it is not an alias, it is a
> supported command and I should see it in the git help -a output.
A core git alias is an alias, and you will see them in the `git help -a`
output, in the aliases section.
> >> If you want a default alias set, publish it as part of an extension
> >> set, like the bash-completion, so that the user has to take action to
> >> install them in their environment. Do not do this in the base git
> >> product by default.
> >
> >The whole point is to help users so they don't have to do extra configurations.
>
> The whole point is that a user team should give thought to the
> functional extensions they want, as a team, which is where aliases
> come in.
Once again, this patch doesn't prevent anyone from doing anything.
> We, as git contributors, should not be telling them what their extensions are.
We are not.
> >Today git is pretty much unbearable without a configuration. Default aliases would help quell some of that pain.
>
> Git is entirely bearable particularly in my own pons and medulla.
Good. But you are not the average user.
> >> If I was a committer on this project, I would have to be much more
> >> convinced that there is long-term value in this series than appears on
> >> the surface.
> >
> > 1. It doesn't affect anyone negatively
> > 2. You don't have to use them if you don't want to 3. They don't affect your aliases, even if they have the same name 4. Everyone has
> >aliases 5. Every SCM in history has had aliases
> >
> >What more would you need?
> >
> >> I am sorry if I am coming across too strongly on this subject, but I
> >> do think we are overloading alias capability and intruding on a domain
> >> that should be reserved for our users, not ourselves.
> >
> >But why? We provide plenty of defaults so that users don't have to configure git in order for the program to be useful. And we will
> >continue to add more defaults.
>
> I remain unconvinced and I found the assertion #5 somewhat specious
> and incorrect. SCCS and RCS use Shell aliases.
> There are no aliases in ClearCase.
Yes there are [1]:
checkout | co [ –res/erved ] [–unr/eserved [ –nma/ ster ] ]
> Granted Perforce has them, but that is not a sufficient differentiator
> to use that over git by any stretch.
All the popular SCMs have them:
* Mercurial
* Subversion
* CVS
* Clearcase
* Perforce
> I've expressed my opinion, and it's not my decision to adopt this. So
> whatever happens, as long as it does not pollute my community's
> expectation of git. Although, providing aliases will handcuff future
> command naming.
That's not true. Nothing is handcuffed.
[1] https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/rational-clearcase/9.0.0?topic=ucm-checkout
--
Felipe Contreras
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-07-02 22:31 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 41+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2021-07-02 10:05 [PATCH 0/5] Default aliases Felipe Contreras
2021-07-02 10:05 ` [PATCH 1/5] test: add missing whitespaces Felipe Contreras
2021-07-02 10:05 ` [PATCH 2/5] config: trivial style fix Felipe Contreras
2021-07-02 10:05 ` [PATCH 3/5] config: trivial struct initialization cleanup Felipe Contreras
2021-07-02 10:05 ` [PATCH 4/5] config: initialize origin_type correctly Felipe Contreras
2021-07-02 10:05 ` [PATCH 5/5] config: add default aliases Felipe Contreras
2021-07-02 10:10 ` Andreas Schwab
2021-07-02 10:17 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-07-02 10:31 ` Andreas Schwab
2021-07-02 10:46 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-07-02 10:54 ` Andreas Schwab
2021-07-02 10:44 ` martin
2021-07-02 10:54 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-07-02 11:15 ` martin
2021-07-02 13:26 ` Randall S. Becker
2021-07-02 13:41 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-07-02 14:15 ` Randall S. Becker
2021-07-02 14:43 ` martin
2021-07-02 20:44 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-07-02 22:03 ` Randall S. Becker
2021-07-02 22:32 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-07-02 15:39 ` Junio C Hamano
2021-07-02 20:41 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-07-02 21:02 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-07-02 21:40 ` martin
2021-07-02 22:16 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-07-02 22:00 ` Randall S. Becker
2021-07-02 22:31 ` Felipe Contreras [this message]
2021-07-02 21:12 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-07-02 21:31 ` martin
2021-07-02 22:14 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-07-02 11:32 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-07-02 21:58 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-07-02 22:38 ` martin
2021-07-02 23:48 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-07-05 14:02 ` Randall S. Becker
2021-07-06 15:27 ` Randall S. Becker
2021-07-06 21:59 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-07-10 15:30 ` Philip Oakley
2021-07-03 10:50 ` Jeff King
2021-07-06 21:54 ` Felipe Contreras
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