* Purism is not free hardware @ 2018-03-07 22:04 Taiidan 2018-03-08 3:12 ` Michael Downey 2018-03-08 16:05 ` Stefan Nagy 0 siblings, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Taiidan @ 2018-03-07 22:04 UTC (permalink / raw) To: libreplanet-discuss I wonder how much money it took for the FSF to finally sell out. "Grassroots: Purism, makers of fine free hardware" https://libreplanet.org/2018/sponsors Purism isn't free hardware, their computers use standard non-owner controlled intel chipsets/cpus with a not actually disabled ME and all the hardware initiation is performed by binary blobs. Here is a post that explains it better than I can. https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/3anjgm/on_the_librem_laptop_purism_doesnt_believe_in/ Purism pretends it is impossible to make free hardware and claim that they are doing the best they can, so let us contrast them to companies like Raptor Computing Systems (TALOS 2) and Bunny Labs (Novena) who have produced real owner controlled libre hardware. _______________________________________________ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Purism is not free hardware 2018-03-07 22:04 Purism is not free hardware Taiidan @ 2018-03-08 3:12 ` Michael Downey 2018-03-08 16:05 ` Stefan Nagy 1 sibling, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Michael Downey @ 2018-03-08 3:12 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Taiidan; +Cc: libreplanet-discuss That Reddit post is 2+ years old, FWIW. Here's the current status of their project and their goal of getting RYF certification: https://puri.sm/learn/freedom-roadmap/ Michael On Mar 7, 2018 18:30, "Taiidan@gmx.com" <Taiidan@gmx.com> wrote: > I wonder how much money it took for the FSF to finally sell out. > > "Grassroots: > Purism, makers of fine free hardware" > > https://libreplanet.org/2018/sponsors > > Purism isn't free hardware, their computers use standard non-owner > controlled intel chipsets/cpus with a not actually disabled ME and all the > hardware initiation is performed by binary blobs. > > Here is a post that explains it better than I can. > > https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/3anjgm/on_the_librem > _laptop_purism_doesnt_believe_in/ > > Purism pretends it is impossible to make free hardware and claim that they > are doing the best they can, so let us contrast them to companies like > Raptor Computing Systems (TALOS 2) and Bunny Labs (Novena) who have > produced real owner controlled libre hardware. > > > _______________________________________________ > libreplanet-discuss mailing list > libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org > https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss > _______________________________________________ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Purism is not free hardware 2018-03-07 22:04 Purism is not free hardware Taiidan 2018-03-08 3:12 ` Michael Downey @ 2018-03-08 16:05 ` Stefan Nagy 2018-03-08 17:26 ` Stefan Nagy 2018-03-08 23:33 ` John Sullivan 1 sibling, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Stefan Nagy @ 2018-03-08 16:05 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Taiidan; +Cc: libreplanet-discuss Am 07.03.2018 23:04 schrieb Taiidan@gmx.com: > "Grassroots: > Purism, makers of fine free hardware" > > https://libreplanet.org/2018/sponsors > > Purism isn't free hardware, […] You are right, they don't offer free hardware. Since I respect their work I wrote them an email and asked them to correct that. It seems like they are willingly trying to unmake their reputation with stupid misstatements like that. I don't get it… -- E-Mails signieren & verschlüsseln · https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org/de/ _______________________________________________ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Purism is not free hardware 2018-03-08 16:05 ` Stefan Nagy @ 2018-03-08 17:26 ` Stefan Nagy 2018-03-08 23:33 ` John Sullivan 1 sibling, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Stefan Nagy @ 2018-03-08 17:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Taiidan; +Cc: libreplanet-discuss Am 08.03.2018 17:05 schrieb Stefan Nagy: > Am 07.03.2018 23:04 schrieb Taiidan@gmx.com: >> "Grassroots: >> Purism, makers of fine free hardware" >> >> https://libreplanet.org/2018/sponsors >> >> Purism isn't free hardware, […] > > You are right, they don't offer free hardware. Since I respect their > work > I wrote them an email and asked them to correct that. > > It seems like they are willingly trying to unmake their reputation with > stupid misstatements like that. I don't get it… It took Todd Weaver less than an hour to answer my email. He says: "Oh, joy. This is not out slogan, never has been […]. To be clear, we are a sponsor of LibrePlanet but we did not provide that tagline." A copy of his email went to the FSF and it took them less than ten minutes to change the tagline. The new tagline is: "Purism, makers of high quality laptops" [1]. [1] see https://libreplanet.org/2018/sponsors/ -- E-Mails signieren & verschlüsseln · https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org/de/ _______________________________________________ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Purism is not free hardware 2018-03-08 16:05 ` Stefan Nagy 2018-03-08 17:26 ` Stefan Nagy @ 2018-03-08 23:33 ` John Sullivan 2018-03-09 0:16 ` Taiidan 1 sibling, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: John Sullivan @ 2018-03-08 23:33 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Stefan Nagy; +Cc: Taiidan, libreplanet-discuss Stefan Nagy <stefan.nagy@posteo.net> writes: > Am 07.03.2018 23:04 schrieb Taiidan@gmx.com: >> "Grassroots: >> Purism, makers of fine free hardware" >> >> https://libreplanet.org/2018/sponsors >> >> Purism isn't free hardware, […] > > You are right, they don't offer free hardware. Since I respect their > work > I wrote them an email and asked them to correct that. > > It seems like they are willingly trying to unmake their reputation with > stupid misstatements like that. I don't get it… This was purely our mistake. Purism did not request that tagline (or any tagline at all). I apologize to Todd and the Purism crew, and to everyone for the confusion. I'm sorry. (We don't even currently certify free hardware -- only hardware that works with and supports free software.) -john -- John Sullivan | Executive Director, Free Software Foundation GPG Key: A462 6CBA FF37 6039 D2D7 5544 97BA 9CE7 61A0 963B https://status.fsf.org/johns | https://fsf.org/blogs/RSS Do you use free software? Donate to join the FSF and support freedom at <https://my.fsf.org/join>. _______________________________________________ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Purism is not free hardware 2018-03-08 23:33 ` John Sullivan @ 2018-03-09 0:16 ` Taiidan 2018-03-09 0:33 ` John Sullivan 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Taiidan @ 2018-03-09 0:16 UTC (permalink / raw) To: John Sullivan, Stefan Nagy; +Cc: libreplanet-discuss On 03/08/2018 06:33 PM, John Sullivan wrote: > Stefan Nagy <stefan.nagy@posteo.net> writes: > >> Am 07.03.2018 23:04 schrieb Taiidan@gmx.com: >>> "Grassroots: >>> Purism, makers of fine free hardware" >>> >>> https://libreplanet.org/2018/sponsors >>> >>> Purism isn't free hardware, […] >> You are right, they don't offer free hardware. Since I respect their >> work >> I wrote them an email and asked them to correct that. >> >> It seems like they are willingly trying to unmake their reputation with >> stupid misstatements like that. I don't get it… > This was purely our mistake. Purism did not request that tagline (or any > tagline at all). I am very surprised that there is someone at the FSF who is un-aware of the situation. Again I still can't understand as to why purism gets so much air time on the FSF website and the tech news media yet legitimately libre hardware gets none. "PureOS" is simply a debian clone used to peddle non-free laptops and now purism has obtained an implied endorsement from the FSF. > I apologize to Todd and the Purism crew, and to everyone for the > confusion. I'm sorry. Was it really the fault of the FSF? In the past purism has for instance posted a minifree bashing image on their twitter and then claimed it "wasn't an approved tweet" https://web.archive.org/web/20150816183411/http://i0.wp.com/blogs.coreboot.org/files/2015/08/purism_attacks_minifree.png > (We don't even currently certify free hardware -- only hardware that > works with and supports free software.) Since they have a booth at libreplanet will they be allowed to have their false advertising or will all signs and literature be approved in advance? * Coreboot with blobbed hardware initiation is not "free firmware" * The LibreM is not at all libre hardware (gotta change that name) * ME_Cleaner/HAP bit do not disable ME at all, the kernel still runs and can do as it pleases - if one fails to include the ME ROM the system WILL power off after 30 minutes and if one physically disconnects the ME processor from the system then the computer won't function - What purism does doesn't avoid the hypothetical intel firmware backdoor at all as it doesn't actually disable ME they are simply riding on the coat tails of the security research community. * New intel x86_64 does not "respect your privacy, freedom and security" They need to apologize and they need to stop the dishonest advertising - after that I will have no issue with them and I am sure people will still buy their products if they are completely honest about them. _______________________________________________ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Purism is not free hardware 2018-03-09 0:16 ` Taiidan @ 2018-03-09 0:33 ` John Sullivan 2018-03-09 0:35 ` Taiidan 2018-03-09 8:06 ` Henry Jensen 0 siblings, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: John Sullivan @ 2018-03-09 0:33 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Taiidan@gmx.com; +Cc: Stefan Nagy, libreplanet-discuss "Taiidan@gmx.com" <Taiidan@gmx.com> writes: > Again I still can't understand as to why purism gets so much air time > on the FSF website and the tech news media yet legitimately libre > hardware gets none. > "PureOS" is simply a debian clone used to peddle non-free laptops and > now purism has obtained an implied endorsement from the FSF. That is not an accurate description. PureOS is an endorsed distribution because it has committed to upholding the Guidelines for Free System Distribution. It made a number of important changes from Debian in order to achieve that. All or almost all of the currently endorsed distributions are based on other nonendorsed distributions -- but the changes they make are significant for user freedom. >> I apologize to Todd and the Purism crew, and to everyone for the >> confusion. I'm sorry. > Was it really the fault of the FSF? Yes. -john -- John Sullivan | Executive Director, Free Software Foundation GPG Key: A462 6CBA FF37 6039 D2D7 5544 97BA 9CE7 61A0 963B https://status.fsf.org/johns | https://fsf.org/blogs/RSS Do you use free software? Donate to join the FSF and support freedom at <https://my.fsf.org/join>. _______________________________________________ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Purism is not free hardware 2018-03-09 0:33 ` John Sullivan @ 2018-03-09 0:35 ` Taiidan 2018-03-27 22:07 ` Taiidan 2018-03-09 8:06 ` Henry Jensen 1 sibling, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Taiidan @ 2018-03-09 0:35 UTC (permalink / raw) To: John Sullivan; +Cc: Stefan Nagy, libreplanet-discuss I thank you for your time but you have not answered my other question re: false advertising. _______________________________________________ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Purism is not free hardware 2018-03-09 0:35 ` Taiidan @ 2018-03-27 22:07 ` Taiidan 0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Taiidan @ 2018-03-27 22:07 UTC (permalink / raw) To: libreplanet-discuss [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 212 bytes --] For those that went what did purisms marketing look like? are they still claiming their laptops have "open source firmware"? will their next generation of re-badged propriatary hardware still be called "LibreM"? [-- Attachment #2: 0xDF372A17.asc --] [-- Type: application/pgp-keys, Size: 5247 bytes --] [-- Attachment #3: Type: text/plain, Size: 183 bytes --] _______________________________________________ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Purism is not free hardware 2018-03-09 0:33 ` John Sullivan 2018-03-09 0:35 ` Taiidan @ 2018-03-09 8:06 ` Henry Jensen 2018-03-09 11:41 ` John Sullivan 1 sibling, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Henry Jensen @ 2018-03-09 8:06 UTC (permalink / raw) To: John Sullivan; +Cc: Stefan Nagy, Taiidan@gmx.com, libreplanet-discuss Am Fri, 09 Mar 2018 01:33:12 +0100 schrieb John Sullivan <johns@fsf.org>: > "Taiidan@gmx.com" <Taiidan@gmx.com> writes: > > > Again I still can't understand as to why purism gets so much air > > time on the FSF website and the tech news media yet legitimately > > libre hardware gets none. > > > > "PureOS" is simply a debian clone used to peddle non-free laptops > > and now purism has obtained an implied endorsement from the FSF. > > That is not an accurate description. PureOS is an endorsed > distribution because it has committed to upholding the Guidelines for > Free System Distribution. It made a number of important changes from > Debian in order to achieve that. PureOS uses the same Linux kernel as Debian (i.e. not Linux-Libre), which some people regard as a bug, because log messages like this appear: iwlwifi: 0000:03:00.0 firmware: failed to load iwlwifi-6000g2a-6.ucode which indicates, that the kernel is looking for a non-free firmware blob. By reading this message in the log file a user could learn about it and be tempted to install this non-free software. See also this thread: http://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/gnu-linux-libre/2017-12/msg00004.html It was suggested, that this issue "was missed" when endorsing PureOS, which I can't hardly imagine, because the used kernel is usually the first thing to look at when reviewing a distro. Regards, Henry _______________________________________________ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Purism is not free hardware 2018-03-09 8:06 ` Henry Jensen @ 2018-03-09 11:41 ` John Sullivan 2018-03-09 12:40 ` Adonay Felipe Nogueira 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: John Sullivan @ 2018-03-09 11:41 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Henry Jensen; +Cc: Stefan Nagy, Taiidan@gmx.com, libreplanet-discuss Henry Jensen <hjensen@gmx.de> writes: > Am Fri, 09 Mar 2018 01:33:12 +0100 > schrieb John Sullivan <johns@fsf.org>: > >> "Taiidan@gmx.com" <Taiidan@gmx.com> writes: >> >> > Again I still can't understand as to why purism gets so much air >> > time on the FSF website and the tech news media yet legitimately >> > libre hardware gets none. >> >> >> > "PureOS" is simply a debian clone used to peddle non-free laptops >> > and now purism has obtained an implied endorsement from the FSF. >> >> That is not an accurate description. PureOS is an endorsed >> distribution because it has committed to upholding the Guidelines for >> Free System Distribution. It made a number of important changes from >> Debian in order to achieve that. > > PureOS uses the same Linux kernel as Debian (i.e. not Linux-Libre), > which some people regard as a bug, because log messages like this > appear: > > iwlwifi: 0000:03:00.0 firmware: failed to load iwlwifi-6000g2a-6.ucode > > which indicates, that the kernel is looking for a non-free firmware > blob. By reading this message in the log file a user could learn about > it and be tempted to install this non-free software. > Yes, we have been revisiting this question and will publish our analysis soon on the mailing list you linked to.. (For everyone's understanding, the nonfree firmware is not present on the system; it is an issue of potentially recommending/suggesting.) -john -- John Sullivan | Executive Director, Free Software Foundation GPG Key: A462 6CBA FF37 6039 D2D7 5544 97BA 9CE7 61A0 963B https://status.fsf.org/johns | https://fsf.org/blogs/RSS Do you use free software? Donate to join the FSF and support freedom at <https://my.fsf.org/join>. _______________________________________________ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Purism is not free hardware 2018-03-09 11:41 ` John Sullivan @ 2018-03-09 12:40 ` Adonay Felipe Nogueira 0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Adonay Felipe Nogueira @ 2018-03-09 12:40 UTC (permalink / raw) To: libreplanet-discuss > (For everyone's understanding, the nonfree firmware is not present on > the system; it is an issue of potentially recommending/suggesting.) I'm not an active distro reviewer right now, but I imagine this would happen, this is why I suggested changing the log message to something indirect, or hide any pointers to hardware, and just display "Failed to load firmware." -- - https://libreplanet.org/wiki/User:Adfeno - Palestrante e consultor sobre /software/ livre (não confundir com gratis). - "WhatsApp"? Ele não é livre. Por favor, veja formas de se comunicar instantaneamente comigo no endereço abaixo. - Contato: https://libreplanet.org/wiki/User:Adfeno#vCard - Arquivos comuns aceitos (apenas sem DRM): Corel Draw, Microsoft Office, MP3, MP4, WMA, WMV. - Arquivos comuns aceitos e enviados: CSV, GNU Dia, GNU Emacs Org, GNU GIMP, Inkscape SVG, JPG, LibreOffice (padrão ODF), OGG, OPUS, PDF (apenas sem DRM), PNG, TXT, WEBM. _______________________________________________ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2018-03-27 22:07 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 12+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2018-03-07 22:04 Purism is not free hardware Taiidan 2018-03-08 3:12 ` Michael Downey 2018-03-08 16:05 ` Stefan Nagy 2018-03-08 17:26 ` Stefan Nagy 2018-03-08 23:33 ` John Sullivan 2018-03-09 0:16 ` Taiidan 2018-03-09 0:33 ` John Sullivan 2018-03-09 0:35 ` Taiidan 2018-03-27 22:07 ` Taiidan 2018-03-09 8:06 ` Henry Jensen 2018-03-09 11:41 ` John Sullivan 2018-03-09 12:40 ` Adonay Felipe Nogueira
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