* Git User's Survey 2007
@ 2007-08-18 23:28 Jakub Narebski
2007-08-18 23:59 ` Jakub Narebski
` (3 more replies)
0 siblings, 4 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Jakub Narebski @ 2007-08-18 23:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: git
Hi all,
We would like to ask you a few questions about your use of the GIT
version control system. This survey is mainly to understand who is
using GIT, how and why.
The results will be discussed on the git mailing list and published to
the GIT wiki at http://git.or.cz/gitwiki/GitSurvey2007
We'll close the survey in three weeks starting from 20 August 2007,
on 10 September 2007.
Please devote a few minutes of your time to fill this simple
questionnaire, it will help a lot the git community to understand your
needs, what you like of GIT, and of course what you don't like of it.
The survey can be found here:
http://www.survey.net.nz/survey.php?94e135ff41e871a1ea5bcda3ee1856d9
http://tinyurl.com/26774s
--
Jakub Narebski
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Git User's Survey 2007
2007-08-18 23:28 Git User's Survey 2007 Jakub Narebski
@ 2007-08-18 23:59 ` Jakub Narebski
2007-08-19 12:17 ` Matthieu Moy
2007-08-25 22:26 ` Jakub Narebski
2007-08-19 13:03 ` Jan Engelhardt
` (2 subsequent siblings)
3 siblings, 2 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Jakub Narebski @ 2007-08-18 23:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: git
I have send this survey to git mailing list, LKML, Linux-MIPS,
Linux-NFS, OpenVZ, Agave, collectd, DirectFB, ELinks, Lilypond, Herrie,
netconf, KDbg, Palava, OLPC, Project Sidestep, Sourcemage Linux distro,
Tangram 2, Thousand Parsec, U-Boot, X.Org, xcb, D-BUS, HAL, Cairo,
Mesa3D, WINE, XMMS2, XStrikeForce and LWN. Posts to X.Org, Thousand
Parsec were automatically rejected: probably subscribe only lists.
Posts to OLPC, KDbg, Linux-NFS, HAL, XMMS2, Sourcemage Linux distro,
Elinks, collectd, netconf, Mesa3D, D-BUS, U-Boot wait for list
moderator approval.
NOTE: if somebody has filled survey *before* official start, to be more
exact before 16 August, he/she has only free-form answers saved (no
checkbox or radio button, i.e. single-answer or multiple-answer
questions), dues to my error when creating survey. Please fill those
questions (and only those questions) again.
You can check how survey.net viewed your answers at
http://www.survey.net.nz/members.php?page=single&qn=1304
--
Jakub Narebski
Poland
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Git User's Survey 2007
2007-08-18 23:59 ` Jakub Narebski
@ 2007-08-19 12:17 ` Matthieu Moy
2007-08-25 22:26 ` Jakub Narebski
1 sibling, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Matthieu Moy @ 2007-08-19 12:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Jakub Narebski; +Cc: git
Jakub Narebski <jnareb@gmail.com> writes:
> I have send this survey to [...]
Posted to linuxfr.org (french-speaking Linux and free-software news site)
http://linuxfr.org/~moy/25128.html
--
Matthieu
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Git User's Survey 2007
2007-08-18 23:28 Git User's Survey 2007 Jakub Narebski
2007-08-18 23:59 ` Jakub Narebski
@ 2007-08-19 13:03 ` Jan Engelhardt
2007-08-27 0:51 ` Git User's Survey 2007 partial summary Jakub Narebski
2007-09-02 8:33 ` Jakub Narebski
3 siblings, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Jan Engelhardt @ 2007-08-19 13:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Jakub Narebski; +Cc: git
On Aug 19 2007 01:28, Jakub Narebski wrote:
>To: <git@vger.kernel.org>
Bcc: <linux-kernel...>
What's a Bcc good for if it ain't B. :)
>The results will be discussed on the git mailing list and published to
>the GIT wiki at http://git.or.cz/gitwiki/GitSurvey2007
And http://www.survey.net.nz/results.php?94e135ff41e871a1ea5bcda3ee1856d9
Funny things there. "x86_86" arch - yep, I'd like to have that one too!
Jan
--
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Git User's Survey 2007
2007-08-18 23:59 ` Jakub Narebski
2007-08-19 12:17 ` Matthieu Moy
@ 2007-08-25 22:26 ` Jakub Narebski
1 sibling, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Jakub Narebski @ 2007-08-25 22:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: git
I couldn't find if the survey announcement made it to KDbg, collectd,
netconf and itools mailing lists: all of them are "avaiting moderator
approval".
I couldn't send announcement to elinks and revctrl mailing lists, as
they are [true] subscribe only.
If you subscribe to those lists, could you please check if announcement
made it, and if not, post "Git User's Survey 2007" anouncement? TIA.
--
Jakub Narebski
Poland
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Git User's Survey 2007 partial summary
2007-08-18 23:28 Git User's Survey 2007 Jakub Narebski
2007-08-18 23:59 ` Jakub Narebski
2007-08-19 13:03 ` Jan Engelhardt
@ 2007-08-27 0:51 ` Jakub Narebski
2007-08-27 1:40 ` Shawn O. Pearce
` (3 more replies)
2007-09-02 8:33 ` Jakub Narebski
3 siblings, 4 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Jakub Narebski @ 2007-08-27 0:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: git
This is partail summary of Git User's Survey 2007 after 1 week of
running. It is based on "View Text Results" page:
http://www.survey.net.nz/members.php?page=results&qn=1304
We have around 445 individual responses, as compared to (I think) 115
answers (Base = 115) for previous survey. That is quite a bit.
04. Which programming languages are you proficient with?
It losk like there is only 3/4 people proficient in Perl as compared to
Python; it looks like Python is more popular. C is most popular, with
only a few (if everything is all right with the results page) people
proficient in Tcl/Tk. I'm sorry, git-gui and gitk guys; it looks like
not many developers...
19. How do you obtain GIT?
Around twice as many people use binary packages as source tarball (or
source package, I think). Around half the people compiles its own git
(pull is also followed by compilation).
26. Which porcelains do you use?
Most people use core-git, some use cogito (the fact that it was lately
deprecated and is no longer developed notwithstanding), some use StGIT,
3 even use pg (despite it is unmaintained). More people use StGIT than
Guilt, but this can be cause by the fact that Guilt (formerly gq) is
younger. Quite a bit use own scripts. 8 choose other... and there is no
"what other" question, unfortunately...
28. Which (main) git web interface do you use for your projects?
Most use gitweb (which is distributed with git), 7 use cgit, 1 wit
(Ruby), most probably XMMS2 project, 1 git-php (I wonder who...), and
there are 20 "other" answers, which I am most curious about. What are
they?
39. Did you participate in previous Git User's Survey?
43 people did out of 368 who answered this question, out of 115 who did
participate in the previous survey. Bit curious.
55. Would commerical (paid) support from a support vendor be of interest
to you/your organization?
Only 44 answers yes, 217 no, 126 not applicable (which was menat to
encompass people who do not use git for work).
--
Jakub Narebski
Poland
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Git User's Survey 2007 partial summary
2007-08-27 0:51 ` Git User's Survey 2007 partial summary Jakub Narebski
@ 2007-08-27 1:40 ` Shawn O. Pearce
2007-08-27 9:01 ` Johannes Schindelin
2007-08-27 11:15 ` Jakub Narebski
2007-08-27 3:24 ` Dan Chokola
` (2 subsequent siblings)
3 siblings, 2 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Shawn O. Pearce @ 2007-08-27 1:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Jakub Narebski; +Cc: git
Jakub Narebski <jnareb@gmail.com> wrote:
> 04. Which programming languages are you proficient with?
>
> It losk like there is only 3/4 people proficient in Perl as compared to
> Python; it looks like Python is more popular. C is most popular, with
> only a few (if everything is all right with the results page) people
> proficient in Tcl/Tk. I'm sorry, git-gui and gitk guys; it looks like
> not many developers...
Rather sad given their user base. gitk seems to have at least 30%
of the respondants while git-gui is somewhere between 10-14%,
depending upon the question asked. Odd. qgit has a smaller
respondant base (~7.7%) but is probably the tool that more Git
users would be comfortable hacking on since it is developed in C++.
--
Shawn.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Git User's Survey 2007 partial summary
2007-08-27 0:51 ` Git User's Survey 2007 partial summary Jakub Narebski
2007-08-27 1:40 ` Shawn O. Pearce
@ 2007-08-27 3:24 ` Dan Chokola
2007-08-27 8:48 ` Johannes Schindelin
` (2 more replies)
2007-08-27 5:45 ` David Kastrup
2007-08-27 8:07 ` Benoit SIGOURE
3 siblings, 3 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Dan Chokola @ 2007-08-27 3:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Jakub Narebski; +Cc: git
On 8/26/07, Jakub Narebski <jnareb@gmail.com> wrote:
> 04. Which programming languages are you proficient with?
>
> It losk like there is only 3/4 people proficient in Perl as compared to
> Python; it looks like Python is more popular. C is most popular, with
> only a few (if everything is all right with the results page) people
> proficient in Tcl/Tk. I'm sorry, git-gui and gitk guys; it looks like
> not many developers...
>
Ruby people, represent! (Hopefully I'm not the only one.)
> 28. Which (main) git web interface do you use for your projects?
>
> Most use gitweb (which is distributed with git), 7 use cgit, 1 wit
> (Ruby), most probably XMMS2 project, 1 git-php (I wonder who...), and
> there are 20 "other" answers, which I am most curious about. What are
> they?
>
All right! Someone actually uses my crappy Wit interface!
> 55. Would commerical (paid) support from a support vendor be of interest
> to you/your organization?
>
> Only 44 answers yes, 217 no, 126 not applicable (which was menat to
> encompass people who do not use git for work).
>
Are questions like this at all indicative of where Git is looking towards going?
> --
> Jakub Narebski
> Poland
--
Dan Chokola
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Git User's Survey 2007 partial summary
2007-08-27 0:51 ` Git User's Survey 2007 partial summary Jakub Narebski
2007-08-27 1:40 ` Shawn O. Pearce
2007-08-27 3:24 ` Dan Chokola
@ 2007-08-27 5:45 ` David Kastrup
2007-08-27 15:43 ` Theodore Tso
2007-08-27 8:07 ` Benoit SIGOURE
3 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread
From: David Kastrup @ 2007-08-27 5:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Jakub Narebski; +Cc: git
Jakub Narebski <jnareb@gmail.com> writes:
> This is partail summary of Git User's Survey 2007 after 1 week of
> running. It is based on "View Text Results" page:
> http://www.survey.net.nz/members.php?page=results&qn=1304
>
> We have around 445 individual responses, as compared to (I think) 115
> answers (Base = 115) for previous survey. That is quite a bit.
>
>
> 04. Which programming languages are you proficient with?
>
> It losk like there is only 3/4 people proficient in Perl as compared
> to Python; it looks like Python is more popular. C is most popular,
> with only a few (if everything is all right with the results page)
> people proficient in Tcl/Tk. I'm sorry, git-gui and gitk guys; it
> looks like not many developers...
If the few developers are efficient and responsive due to their choice
of programming language, the net result might still work out fine.
But it might make the the project more susceptible to discontinuation
if existing developers can't sustain their involvement for some
reason. On the other hand, code being inscrutable because of not
being expressible well in a more common language also carries its
dangers.
> 26. Which porcelains do you use?
>
> Most people use core-git, some use cogito (the fact that it was
> lately deprecated and is no longer developed notwithstanding), some
> use StGIT, 3 even use pg (despite it is unmaintained). More people
> use StGIT than Guilt, but this can be cause by the fact that Guilt
> (formerly gq) is younger.
I found guilt essentially unusable for me due to its documentation.
There is only man-page level documentation for the various commands
comprising it, but the overall design is just "this is just like patch
sets in ..." uh, Monotone? Don't remember which it was. Anyway, the
docs were quite useless to me as someone who did _not_ previously use
the system mentioned as reference.
--
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Git User's Survey 2007 partial summary
2007-08-27 0:51 ` Git User's Survey 2007 partial summary Jakub Narebski
` (2 preceding siblings ...)
2007-08-27 5:45 ` David Kastrup
@ 2007-08-27 8:07 ` Benoit SIGOURE
3 siblings, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Benoit SIGOURE @ 2007-08-27 8:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Jakub Narebski; +Cc: git
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 649 bytes --]
On Aug 27, 2007, at 2:51 AM, Jakub Narebski wrote:
> 28. Which (main) git web interface do you use for your projects?
>
> Most use gitweb (which is distributed with git), 7 use cgit, 1 wit
> (Ruby), most probably XMMS2 project, 1 git-php (I wonder who...), and
> there are 20 "other" answers, which I am most curious about. What are
> they?
>
I replied "other" because I didn't know whether all questions were
mandatory or not :D
I don't use a git web interface... for now.
So maybe 19 other people have been as dumb as me and replied "other"
for a similar reason :)
--
Benoit Sigoure aka Tsuna
EPITA Research and Development Laboratory
[-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 186 bytes --]
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Git User's Survey 2007 partial summary
2007-08-27 3:24 ` Dan Chokola
@ 2007-08-27 8:48 ` Johannes Schindelin
2007-08-27 8:57 ` Benoit SIGOURE
2007-08-27 9:54 ` Andreas Ericsson
2007-08-27 23:48 ` Jakub Narebski
2 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread
From: Johannes Schindelin @ 2007-08-27 8:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dan Chokola; +Cc: Jakub Narebski, git
Hi,
On Sun, 26 Aug 2007, Dan Chokola wrote:
> On 8/26/07, Jakub Narebski <jnareb@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > 55. Would commerical (paid) support from a support vendor be of
> > interest to you/your organization?
> >
> > Only 44 answers yes, 217 no, 126 not applicable (which was menat to
> > encompass people who do not use git for work).
>
> Are questions like this at all indicative of where Git is looking
> towards going?
No. These questions are just questions. Git is GPLv2, and it will
probably stay that forever, so you are _free_ to start a commercial
support scheme for Git, but others are free not to choose it.
I for one could imagine training people, and giving technical support for
companies needing that support.
Ciao,
Dscho
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Git User's Survey 2007 partial summary
2007-08-27 8:48 ` Johannes Schindelin
@ 2007-08-27 8:57 ` Benoit SIGOURE
2007-08-27 9:26 ` Johannes Schindelin
0 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread
From: Benoit SIGOURE @ 2007-08-27 8:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Johannes Schindelin; +Cc: git discussion list
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1056 bytes --]
On Aug 27, 2007, at 10:48 AM, Johannes Schindelin wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Sun, 26 Aug 2007, Dan Chokola wrote:
>
>> On 8/26/07, Jakub Narebski <jnareb@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> 55. Would commerical (paid) support from a support vendor be of
>>> interest to you/your organization?
>>>
>>> Only 44 answers yes, 217 no, 126 not applicable (which was menat to
>>> encompass people who do not use git for work).
>>
>> Are questions like this at all indicative of where Git is looking
>> towards going?
>
> No. These questions are just questions. Git is GPLv2, and it will
> probably stay that forever, so you are _free_ to start a commercial
> support scheme for Git, but others are free not to choose it.
>
> I for one could imagine training people, and giving technical
> support for
> companies needing that support.
You seem to imply that GPLv3 would prevent any form of commercial
support for Git...
Section 4 of GPLv3:
"you may offer support or warranty protection for a fee."
--
Benoit Sigoure aka Tsuna
EPITA Research and Development Laboratory
[-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 186 bytes --]
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Git User's Survey 2007 partial summary
2007-08-27 1:40 ` Shawn O. Pearce
@ 2007-08-27 9:01 ` Johannes Schindelin
2007-08-27 11:15 ` Jakub Narebski
1 sibling, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Johannes Schindelin @ 2007-08-27 9:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Shawn O. Pearce; +Cc: Jakub Narebski, git
Hi,
On Sun, 26 Aug 2007, Shawn O. Pearce wrote:
> Jakub Narebski <jnareb@gmail.com> wrote:
> > 04. Which programming languages are you proficient with?
> >
> > It losk like there is only 3/4 people proficient in Perl as compared to
> > Python; it looks like Python is more popular. C is most popular, with
> > only a few (if everything is all right with the results page) people
> > proficient in Tcl/Tk. I'm sorry, git-gui and gitk guys; it looks like
> > not many developers...
>
> Rather sad given their user base.
Not only their user base, but also their portability. Tcl/Tk compile _out
of the box_ on MinGW, for example. That is much more than can be said
about GTK, Python amongst others.
But then, Tcl is not _that_ difficult, and we're doing pretty fine,
methinks.
Ciao,
Dscho
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Git User's Survey 2007 partial summary
2007-08-27 8:57 ` Benoit SIGOURE
@ 2007-08-27 9:26 ` Johannes Schindelin
0 siblings, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Johannes Schindelin @ 2007-08-27 9:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Benoit SIGOURE; +Cc: git discussion list
Hi,
On Mon, 27 Aug 2007, Benoit SIGOURE wrote:
> On Aug 27, 2007, at 10:48 AM, Johannes Schindelin wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 26 Aug 2007, Dan Chokola wrote:
> >
> > > On 8/26/07, Jakub Narebski <jnareb@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > 55. Would commerical (paid) support from a support vendor be of
> > > > interest to you/your organization?
> > > >
> > > > Only 44 answers yes, 217 no, 126 not applicable (which was menat to
> > > > encompass people who do not use git for work).
> > >
> > > Are questions like this at all indicative of where Git is looking
> > > towards going?
> >
> > No. These questions are just questions. Git is GPLv2, and it will
> > probably stay that forever, so you are _free_ to start a commercial
> > support scheme for Git, but others are free not to choose it.
> >
> > I for one could imagine training people, and giving technical support for
> > companies needing that support.
>
> You seem to imply that GPLv3 would prevent any form of commercial
> support for Git...
No, I was not. I was only being overly precise in my description. My
apologies ;-)
Ciao,
Dscho
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Git User's Survey 2007 partial summary
2007-08-27 3:24 ` Dan Chokola
2007-08-27 8:48 ` Johannes Schindelin
@ 2007-08-27 9:54 ` Andreas Ericsson
2007-08-27 23:48 ` Jakub Narebski
2 siblings, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Andreas Ericsson @ 2007-08-27 9:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dan Chokola; +Cc: Jakub Narebski, git
Dan Chokola wrote:
> On 8/26/07, Jakub Narebski <jnareb@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> 55. Would commerical (paid) support from a support vendor be of interest
>> to you/your organization?
>>
>> Only 44 answers yes, 217 no, 126 not applicable (which was menat to
>> encompass people who do not use git for work).
>>
>
> Are questions like this at all indicative of where Git is looking towards going?
>
As Dscho wrote, I should think not, but having a company basing its business
around an opensource product usually means a lot of company-like features
get implemented, such as various forms of reporting, documentation, integration
with bugtrackers and trouble-ticket systems, etc, etc...
It is the way of companies to throw money rather than competence at temporary
problems, while more altruistic organizations such as opensource projects do
the exact opposite.
I for one would love if some support company could give git courses in sweden,
since that'd mean I wouldn't have to. ;-)
--
Andreas Ericsson andreas.ericsson@op5.se
OP5 AB www.op5.se
Tel: +46 8-230225 Fax: +46 8-230231
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Git User's Survey 2007 partial summary
2007-08-27 1:40 ` Shawn O. Pearce
2007-08-27 9:01 ` Johannes Schindelin
@ 2007-08-27 11:15 ` Jakub Narebski
2007-08-27 11:28 ` Gábor Farkas
` (2 more replies)
1 sibling, 3 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Jakub Narebski @ 2007-08-27 11:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Shawn O. Pearce; +Cc: git
Shawn O. Pearce wrote:
> Jakub Narebski <jnareb@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 04. Which programming languages are you proficient with?
>>
>> It look like there is only 3/4 people proficient in Perl as compared to
>> Python; it looks like Python is more popular.
I meant here that Perl to Python is around 3 to 4; more people are
proficient in Python than in Perl.
>> C is most popular, with
>> only a few (if everything is all right with the results page) people
>> proficient in Tcl/Tk. I'm sorry, git-gui and gitk guys; it looks like
>> not many developers...
>
> Rather sad given their user base. gitk seems to have at least 30%
> of the respondants while git-gui is somewhere between 10-14%,
> depending upon the question asked. Odd. qgit has a smaller
> respondant base (~7.7%) but is probably the tool that more Git
> users would be comfortable hacking on since it is developed in C++.
It is not *that* bad, as there are 14 people proficient in Tcl/Tk,
while there are 5 people who had made 5 or more commits to either
gitk or git-gui. But it is not encouraging.
I wonder if PyGTK is as portable as Tcl/Tk...
--
Jakub Narebski
Poland
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Git User's Survey 2007 partial summary
2007-08-27 11:15 ` Jakub Narebski
@ 2007-08-27 11:28 ` Gábor Farkas
2007-08-27 12:23 ` David Kastrup
2007-08-27 12:27 ` Mike Hommey
2007-08-27 11:42 ` Johannes Schindelin
2007-08-27 15:42 ` Torgil Svensson
2 siblings, 2 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Gábor Farkas @ 2007-08-27 11:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Jakub Narebski; +Cc: Shawn O. Pearce, git
Jakub Narebski wrote:
>
> I wonder if PyGTK is as portable as Tcl/Tk...
GTK does not run natively on osx, tcl/tk does.
p.s: there are some ways to make GTK run on osx, like running it using
the apple x11-server, but then it looks ugly and does not have the
'native' feeling, or try to make it run with the gtk-osx port, which is
incomplete :)
gabor
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Git User's Survey 2007 partial summary
2007-08-27 11:15 ` Jakub Narebski
2007-08-27 11:28 ` Gábor Farkas
@ 2007-08-27 11:42 ` Johannes Schindelin
2007-08-27 15:42 ` Torgil Svensson
2 siblings, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Johannes Schindelin @ 2007-08-27 11:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Jakub Narebski; +Cc: Shawn O. Pearce, git
Hi,
On Mon, 27 Aug 2007, Jakub Narebski wrote:
> I wonder if PyGTK is as portable as Tcl/Tk...
It is not. I ended my attempts with contempt after two weeks to compile
_Python_ on MinGW. I came to the conclusion that the developers of Python
do not care about being able to compile Python on Windows with Open Source
tools only.
Of course, that means that you cannot compile Python modules with MinGW
(at least as far as I know).
Ciao,
Dscho
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Git User's Survey 2007 partial summary
2007-08-27 11:28 ` Gábor Farkas
@ 2007-08-27 12:23 ` David Kastrup
2007-08-27 13:19 ` Gábor Farkas
2007-08-27 12:27 ` Mike Hommey
1 sibling, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread
From: David Kastrup @ 2007-08-27 12:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: git
Gábor Farkas <gabor@nekomancer.net> writes:
> Jakub Narebski wrote:
>>
>> I wonder if PyGTK is as portable as Tcl/Tk...
>
> GTK does not run natively on osx, tcl/tk does.
>
>
> p.s: there are some ways to make GTK run on osx, like running it using
> the apple x11-server, but then it looks ugly and does not have the
> native' feeling,
Doesn't Tcl/Tk also look ugly and does not have the native feeling?
But at least a user does not have to invest much work to get there.
--
David Kastrup
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Git User's Survey 2007 partial summary
2007-08-27 11:28 ` Gábor Farkas
2007-08-27 12:23 ` David Kastrup
@ 2007-08-27 12:27 ` Mike Hommey
2007-08-27 13:31 ` Gábor Farkas
1 sibling, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread
From: Mike Hommey @ 2007-08-27 12:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Gábor Farkas; +Cc: Jakub Narebski, Shawn O. Pearce, git
On Mon, Aug 27, 2007 at 01:28:39PM +0200, Gábor Farkas <gabor@nekomancer.net> wrote:
> Jakub Narebski wrote:
> >
> >I wonder if PyGTK is as portable as Tcl/Tk...
>
> GTK does not run natively on osx, tcl/tk does.
Maybe you're not aware of http://developer.imendio.com/projects/gtk-macosx
Mike
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Git User's Survey 2007 partial summary
2007-08-27 12:23 ` David Kastrup
@ 2007-08-27 13:19 ` Gábor Farkas
2007-08-27 13:50 ` Johannes Schindelin
0 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread
From: Gábor Farkas @ 2007-08-27 13:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: David Kastrup; +Cc: git
David Kastrup wrote:
> Gábor Farkas <gabor@nekomancer.net> writes:
>
>> Jakub Narebski wrote:
>>> I wonder if PyGTK is as portable as Tcl/Tk...
>> GTK does not run natively on osx, tcl/tk does.
>>
>>
>> p.s: there are some ways to make GTK run on osx, like running it using
>> the apple x11-server, but then it looks ugly and does not have the
>> native' feeling,
>
> Doesn't Tcl/Tk also look ugly and does not have the native feeling?
> But at least a user does not have to invest much work to get there.
>
hmm.. he at least needs the X11 server installed (which is not
by-default installed). but that's probably installed for a developer.
gabor
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Git User's Survey 2007 partial summary
2007-08-27 12:27 ` Mike Hommey
@ 2007-08-27 13:31 ` Gábor Farkas
0 siblings, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Gábor Farkas @ 2007-08-27 13:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Mike Hommey; +Cc: Jakub Narebski, Shawn O. Pearce, git
Mike Hommey wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 27, 2007 at 01:28:39PM +0200, Gábor Farkas <gabor@nekomancer.net> wrote:
>> Jakub Narebski wrote:
>>> I wonder if PyGTK is as portable as Tcl/Tk...
>> GTK does not run natively on osx, tcl/tk does.
>
> Maybe you're not aware of http://developer.imendio.com/projects/gtk-macosx
>
no, i am aware of it, i even mentioned it in my mail, in the P.S. section
> or try to make it run with the gtk-osx port, which is incomplete :)
for example, on this page:
http://developer.imendio.com/projects/gtk-macosx/build-instructions
they write:
"
NOTE: This is mainly meant for developers wanting to help out with GTK+
Mac OS X, not for users. The port is not yet finished or usable for
mainstream use.
"
gabor
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Git User's Survey 2007 partial summary
2007-08-27 13:19 ` Gábor Farkas
@ 2007-08-27 13:50 ` Johannes Schindelin
2007-08-27 13:55 ` David Kastrup
0 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread
From: Johannes Schindelin @ 2007-08-27 13:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Gábor Farkas; +Cc: git
Hi,
> > Doesn't Tcl/Tk also look ugly and does not have the native feeling?
> > But at least a user does not have to invest much work to get there.
Funny. _Even_ on this list, the git mailing list, there have been enough
hints how to change the look and feel of Tcl/Tk. D'oh.
Ciao,
Dscho
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Git User's Survey 2007 partial summary
2007-08-27 13:50 ` Johannes Schindelin
@ 2007-08-27 13:55 ` David Kastrup
0 siblings, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: David Kastrup @ 2007-08-27 13:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: git
Johannes Schindelin <Johannes.Schindelin@gmx.de> writes:
>> > Doesn't Tcl/Tk also look ugly and does not have the native
>> > feeling? But at least a user does not have to invest much work
>> > to get there.
>
> Funny. _Even_ on this list, the git mailing list, there have been
> enough hints how to change the look and feel of Tcl/Tk. D'oh.
The common user experience is not magically improved by somebody
having discussed the problem somewhere sometime. D'oh.
--
David Kastrup
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Git User's Survey 2007 partial summary
2007-08-27 11:15 ` Jakub Narebski
2007-08-27 11:28 ` Gábor Farkas
2007-08-27 11:42 ` Johannes Schindelin
@ 2007-08-27 15:42 ` Torgil Svensson
2 siblings, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Torgil Svensson @ 2007-08-27 15:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Jakub Narebski; +Cc: Shawn O. Pearce, git
On 8/27/07, Jakub Narebski <jnareb@gmail.com> wrote:
> I wonder if PyGTK is as portable as Tcl/Tk...
Tk is integrated in the official Python library while PyGTK is not so
I guess Tk wins even on Python (Idle [included editor] and matplotlib
uses it as default).
PyGTK works pretty well though even on win32 (after installing a
handful dependencies). I haven't tried to compile any of these myself
though, compiling these things on win32 is usually a PITA.
//Torgil
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Git User's Survey 2007 partial summary
2007-08-27 5:45 ` David Kastrup
@ 2007-08-27 15:43 ` Theodore Tso
0 siblings, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Theodore Tso @ 2007-08-27 15:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: David Kastrup; +Cc: Jakub Narebski, git
On Mon, Aug 27, 2007 at 07:45:40AM +0200, David Kastrup wrote:
> I found guilt essentially unusable for me due to its documentation.
> There is only man-page level documentation for the various commands
> comprising it, but the overall design is just "this is just like patch
> sets in ..." uh, Monotone? Don't remember which it was. Anyway, the
> docs were quite useless to me as someone who did _not_ previously use
> the system mentioned as reference.
The system guilt is more like is "quilt". For people who are using
pure patches to maintain changes against mainline, quilt is the "rcs"
of that particular problem domain. It would probably be a good idea
to have a pointer to Andreas Gruenbacher's, "How To Surive With Many
Patches or Introduction to Quilt" paper.
- Ted
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Git User's Survey 2007 partial summary
2007-08-27 3:24 ` Dan Chokola
2007-08-27 8:48 ` Johannes Schindelin
2007-08-27 9:54 ` Andreas Ericsson
@ 2007-08-27 23:48 ` Jakub Narebski
2 siblings, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Jakub Narebski @ 2007-08-27 23:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dan Chokola; +Cc: git, Johannes Schindelin, Andreas Ericsson
On Mon, Aug 27, 2007, Dan Chokola wrote:
> On 8/26/07, Jakub Narebski <jnareb@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 55. Would commerical (paid) support from a support vendor be of interest
>> to you/your organization?
>>
>> Only 44 answers yes, 217 no, 126 not applicable (which was menat to
>> encompass people who do not use git for work).
>
> Are questions like this at all indicative of where Git is looking
> towards going?
This question was actually requested on git mailing list to be in
the survey...
This question is to get to know if there is sufficient demand for
commercial git support for it to be viable. There are two possible
outcomes:
If there is enough demand, then company selling git support can make
a living. Company selling support for git means more git user's (because
some corp needs to have commercial/external support to be present) and
possibly more developers. It is possible that some revenue falls to main
git developers, be it by paying somebody to hack on git, or paying for
some feature or for fixing a bug fast.
If there is not enough demand, better to know it from onset that to have
company which tries to provide git support bancrupt. No failed support
company means no bad publicity on git; it _might_ mean that community
support is enogh for git...
Note that commercial (paid) support does not clash
with GPL. One does not need change in license to have commercial
git support. GPL allows paid support.
--
Jakub Narebski
Poland
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Git User's Survey 2007 partial summary
2007-08-18 23:28 Git User's Survey 2007 Jakub Narebski
` (2 preceding siblings ...)
2007-08-27 0:51 ` Git User's Survey 2007 partial summary Jakub Narebski
@ 2007-09-02 8:33 ` Jakub Narebski
3 siblings, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Jakub Narebski @ 2007-09-02 8:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: git
This is partial summary of Git User's Survey 2007 after 2 weeks of
running. It is based on "View Text Results" page:
http://www.survey.net.nz/members.php?page=results&qn=1304
The same information but in graphical form you can see at
http://www.survey.net.nz/results.php?94e135ff41e871a1ea5bcda3ee1856d9
10. What other SCM did/do you use?
Note that this question does not distinguish between SCMs/VCSs which
were used prior to Git and used no longer, SCMs which are used beside
(in parallel) to Git perhaps interacting with Git, and SCMs which are
used instead of Git. Also note that this is _Git User's_ survey, so it
those number for example do not represent number of e.g. users of
Mercurial as compared to e.g. users of Subversion.
Below there is table of SCM used, sorted by the number of responses.
Note that annotations (like "a little CVS") were not weighted here.
There were 502 responses, 25 null responses (eviovalent to "none").
Only SCMs which has count more that 10 are shown. One person can (and
usually did) chose more than one SCM.
Name Count
--------------------------------------------------
Subversion 399
CVS 362
Mercurial 73
Darcs 59
GNU Arch 52
RCS 45
Bazaar-NG 40
Perforce 34
ClearCase 31
Monotone 23
BitKeeper 23
Bazaar 17
SVK 16
SourceSafe 11
SCCS 10
tla+baz+bzr 109
As you can see two most popular SCMs are Subversion ('svn') and CVS,
with Subversion being slightly more popular. Among distributed SCMs
with most count are Mercurial ('hg') and Arch and its descendants
('tla', 'baz', 'bzr').
35. How does GIT compare to other SCM tools you have used?
Answer Count
------------------------------------------------
Better 388
Comparable (equal) 73
Worse 24
TOTAL 485 (129 null)
Clearly Git is superior SCM! (In the minds of _Git users_) ;-)
Seriously, one should take into consideration that those results
are biased, because it is _Git User's_ Survey, and people usually
choose SCM because they think it is best choice.
No answer (null answer) might mean that responder does not use and did
not use other SCMs to compare, or at least think that he/she does not
have sufficient basis for a comparison.
====================================================================
26. Which porcelains do you use?
Multiple answers (one can use more than one porcelain).
Porcelain Count
------------------------------------------------
core-git 428
Cogito (deprecated) 45
Patch management interface layers:
..................................
StGIT 37
Guilt (formerly gq) 13
pg (deprecated, abandoned) 7
my own scripts 74
other 11
It is understandable that Cogito still has some users, even though it is
deprecated, and [I think] all of its functionality can be found in
git-core porcelain. It was meant as SCM / porcelain layer when git-core
didn't have it and consisted almost only of plumbing commands.
Quite a bit of people use patch management interface: StGIT, Guilt, even
deprecated and abandoned pg (Patchy Git). StGIT has more users than
Guilt, although that might be caused by the fact that StGIT was here
longer...
It is interesting that quite a bit of responders script their git usage:
74 "my own script" users.
I am wondering what those 11 other are...
27. Which git GUI do you use?
Multiple answers (one can use more than one GUI). Note that for the
first week and a bit of survey "CLI" answer had no explanation that it
means command line interface, so results might be bit skewed.
GUI Count
------------------------------------------------
CLI (command line) 295
gitk 266
git-gui 91
qgit 68
giggle 43
gitview 13
instaweb 13
tig 38
(h)gct 3
qct 3
KGit 7
git.el 25
other 10
giggle + gitview 56
As one can see almost as many people use gitk as CLI. Most used GUI are
gitk and git-gui, most probably because they are distributed with git,
and because they are portable. QGit is also quite popular, although
GTK+ viewers, namely giggle and gitview have the same count summary
(note that there might be instances of users using both giggle and
gitview). I am a bit suprised about Giggle, I'd say.
Tig (text-mode interface for git) and git.el (GIT mode for Emacs) are
also quite popular.
I wonder what are those 10 other GUI... and I didn't provide "What is
this 'other GUI'?" question...
=====================================================================
44. Do you use the GIT wiki?
233 yes, 239 no, 112 no answer
56. Do you read the mailing list?
168 yes, 303 no, 114 no answer
59. Do you use the IRC channel (#git on irc.freenode.net)?
148 yes, 281 no, 198 no answer
(I do wonder a bit about "no answer" here. Does it mean: "There is git
wiki/git mailing list/#git IRC channel?!? I didn't know."? Or does it
mean something else: "I was too tired to answer this question...")
--
Jakub Narebski
Poland
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2007-09-02 8:33 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 28+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2007-08-18 23:28 Git User's Survey 2007 Jakub Narebski
2007-08-18 23:59 ` Jakub Narebski
2007-08-19 12:17 ` Matthieu Moy
2007-08-25 22:26 ` Jakub Narebski
2007-08-19 13:03 ` Jan Engelhardt
2007-08-27 0:51 ` Git User's Survey 2007 partial summary Jakub Narebski
2007-08-27 1:40 ` Shawn O. Pearce
2007-08-27 9:01 ` Johannes Schindelin
2007-08-27 11:15 ` Jakub Narebski
2007-08-27 11:28 ` Gábor Farkas
2007-08-27 12:23 ` David Kastrup
2007-08-27 13:19 ` Gábor Farkas
2007-08-27 13:50 ` Johannes Schindelin
2007-08-27 13:55 ` David Kastrup
2007-08-27 12:27 ` Mike Hommey
2007-08-27 13:31 ` Gábor Farkas
2007-08-27 11:42 ` Johannes Schindelin
2007-08-27 15:42 ` Torgil Svensson
2007-08-27 3:24 ` Dan Chokola
2007-08-27 8:48 ` Johannes Schindelin
2007-08-27 8:57 ` Benoit SIGOURE
2007-08-27 9:26 ` Johannes Schindelin
2007-08-27 9:54 ` Andreas Ericsson
2007-08-27 23:48 ` Jakub Narebski
2007-08-27 5:45 ` David Kastrup
2007-08-27 15:43 ` Theodore Tso
2007-08-27 8:07 ` Benoit SIGOURE
2007-09-02 8:33 ` Jakub Narebski
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this public inbox
https://80x24.org/mirrors/git.git
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).