From: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@osdl.org>
To: Torgil Svensson <torgil.svensson@gmail.com>
Cc: sf-gmane@stephan-feder.de, sf <sf@b-i-t.de>,
git@vger.kernel.org, Martin Waitz <tali@admingilde.org>
Subject: Re: [RFC] Submodules in GIT
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2006 11:41:38 -0800 (PST) [thread overview]
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0612021114270.3476@woody.osdl.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <e7bda7770612021057mc9f3eb9q7fc047dd1b5c235f@mail.gmail.com>
On Sat, 2 Dec 2006, Torgil Svensson wrote:
>
> Here's an real-world example that doesn't contradict:
And I'll add the note that people who do things like submodules aren't
generally even _used_ to them being "seamless", and most of the time
probably don't even want complete seamlessness.
As the example that Torgil points to shows, people are quite used to
actually even naming the submodules separately, and things like having the
"default" set of submodules not equal the "complete" set.
In other words, I don't think people expect or want something hugely more
complicated than the CVS/modules kind of file.
What people _do_ want (and that CVS in general is horribly bad at, and
this is not a module-specific issue) is to have the _versioning_ work
well. When you check out a specific version of a module, you want any
_linked_ modules to follow along too.
This is the same reason why CVS users use tags a lot: because even
_within_ a single project (no modules, no nothing), it's often hard to
re-create the exact state of a version any other way. So you tag every
single file and do insane things like that, because CVS just isn't very
good at guaranteeing consistency across the whole project.
The exact same thing is true about subprojects. I don't think that people
who have used CVS subprojects a lot really mind the CVS/modules file
itself (but hey, maybe I'm wrong - I've seen _other_ people maintain
modules in CVS, but I've never done it myself), but they do mind the fact
that it's hard as hell to do something as simple as "get all modules back
to version X" without lots and lots of careful crud (ie tagging every
singl emodule, things like that).
Now, I'm not exactly sure who wants to use git modules, so this is the
time to ask: did you hate the CVS/modules file? Or was it something you
set up once, and then basically forgot about? People clearly use the
ability to mark certain modules as depending on each other, and aliases to
say "if you ask for this module, you actually get a set of _these_
modules".
_I_ suspect that that isn't the problem people had, and isn't what they
have any problems with. What CVS didn't do very well (or at all, afaik) is
to say "I want supermodule version XYZ", and then got all the submodules
automatically to that (reliable) state. And THAT is something I think is
really important for submodules, and it's why I think the most important
part isn't actually all the veneer to make "git clone" and "git pull" work
(which is really about the CVS/modules kind of wrapper parsing), but
actually about the supermodule "tree" object pointing to a very specific
version, so that you get the exact same "atomic snapshotting" of multiple
trees that you get within a single git tree.
In other words, I _suspect_ that that is really what module users are all
about. They want the ability to specify an arbitrary collection of these
atomic snapshots (for releases etc), and just want a way to copy and move
those things around, and are less interested in making everything else
very seamless (because most people are happy to do the actual
_development_ entirely within the submodules, so the "development" part
is actually not that important for the supermodule, the supermodule is
mostly for aggregation and snapshots, and tying different versions of
different submodules together).
So that's where I come from. And maybe I'm totally wrong. I'd like to hear
what people who actually _use_ submodules think.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2006-12-02 19:42 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 252+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2006-11-20 21:51 [RFC] Submodules in GIT Martin Waitz
2006-11-20 22:16 ` Jakub Narebski
2006-11-20 22:28 ` Martin Waitz
2006-11-20 22:43 ` Junio C Hamano
2006-11-20 23:02 ` Jakub Narebski
2006-11-20 23:52 ` Martin Waitz
2006-11-21 1:31 ` Sam Vilain
2006-11-20 23:05 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-11-20 23:25 ` J. Bruce Fields
2006-11-20 23:33 ` Martin Waitz
2006-11-21 18:01 ` J. Bruce Fields
2006-11-21 19:32 ` Martin Waitz
2006-11-20 23:29 ` Martin Waitz
2006-11-21 0:10 ` Junio C Hamano
2006-11-21 0:42 ` Jakub Narebski
2006-11-21 6:21 ` Martin Waitz
2006-11-21 10:04 ` Jakub Narebski
2006-11-21 11:49 ` Martin Waitz
2006-11-21 6:27 ` Martin Waitz
2006-11-21 7:36 ` Junio C Hamano
2006-11-21 7:55 ` Martin Waitz
2006-11-21 22:31 ` Yann Dirson
2006-11-21 22:51 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-11-21 22:59 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-11-21 23:54 ` Yann Dirson
2006-11-22 3:40 ` Shawn Pearce
2006-11-23 23:23 ` Yann Dirson
2006-11-25 6:53 ` Shawn Pearce
2006-11-25 11:12 ` Yann Dirson
2006-11-25 18:57 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-11-25 19:19 ` Steven Grimm
2006-11-25 19:30 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-11-25 23:49 ` Yann Dirson
2006-11-26 1:14 ` Sven Verdoolaege
2006-11-26 1:32 ` Yann Dirson
2006-11-26 3:39 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-11-26 8:05 ` Daniel Barkalow
2006-11-28 9:36 ` Andreas Ericsson
2006-11-28 10:29 ` Andy Parkins
2006-11-28 10:50 ` Jakub Narebski
2006-11-28 13:35 ` Andy Parkins
2006-11-28 15:44 ` Shawn Pearce
2006-11-28 16:29 ` Andy Parkins
2006-11-28 16:36 ` Shawn Pearce
2006-11-28 17:38 ` Jon Loeliger
2006-11-29 16:15 ` Martin Waitz
2006-11-30 11:57 ` sf
[not found] ` <200611301255.41733.andyparkins@gmail.com>
2006-11-30 14:00 ` Stephan Feder
2006-11-30 14:49 ` Andy Parkins
2006-11-30 15:20 ` Sven Verdoolaege
2006-11-30 15:30 ` Andy Parkins
2006-11-30 15:50 ` Andreas Ericsson
2006-11-30 16:08 ` Andy Parkins
2006-11-30 16:33 ` Sven Verdoolaege
2006-12-01 0:01 ` Andy Parkins
2006-12-01 0:11 ` Jakub Narebski
2006-12-01 9:32 ` Sven Verdoolaege
2006-12-01 10:19 ` Andy Parkins
2006-11-30 17:19 ` Martin Waitz
2006-11-30 16:05 ` sf
2006-11-30 16:12 ` sf
2006-12-01 9:19 ` Andy Parkins
2006-12-01 9:57 ` Martin Waitz
2006-12-01 10:29 ` Andy Parkins
2006-12-01 10:42 ` Sven Verdoolaege
2006-12-01 11:02 ` Andy Parkins
2006-12-01 11:10 ` Sven Verdoolaege
2006-12-01 11:45 ` sf
2006-12-01 12:12 ` Andy Parkins
2006-12-01 12:28 ` Martin Waitz
2006-12-01 14:11 ` Andy Parkins
2006-12-01 15:12 ` Martin Waitz
2006-12-01 11:46 ` Martin Waitz
2006-12-01 12:16 ` Andy Parkins
2006-12-01 12:34 ` Martin Waitz
2006-12-01 13:59 ` Andy Parkins
2006-12-01 14:07 ` Martin Waitz
2006-12-01 11:31 ` Martin Waitz
2006-12-01 12:20 ` Andy Parkins
2006-12-01 12:37 ` Martin Waitz
2006-12-02 15:16 ` Jakub Narebski
2006-11-28 19:58 ` Steven Grimm
2006-11-28 21:02 ` Shawn Pearce
2006-11-29 16:03 ` Martin Waitz
2006-11-29 20:00 ` Andy Parkins
2006-11-30 12:16 ` Andreas Ericsson
2006-11-30 12:40 ` Andy Parkins
2006-11-30 17:06 ` Martin Waitz
2006-11-30 18:57 ` Andreas Ericsson
2006-12-01 8:49 ` Andy Parkins
2006-12-01 9:33 ` Andreas Ericsson
2006-12-01 10:38 ` Andy Parkins
2006-12-01 12:03 ` sf
2006-12-01 12:11 ` Martin Waitz
2006-12-01 13:21 ` sf
2006-12-01 13:43 ` Martin Waitz
2006-12-01 14:23 ` Stephan Feder
2006-12-01 15:07 ` Martin Waitz
2006-12-01 16:04 ` Stephan Feder
2006-12-01 16:15 ` Martin Waitz
2006-12-05 9:01 ` Uwe Kleine-Koenig
2006-12-05 10:33 ` Andreas Ericsson
2006-12-05 11:11 ` Jakub Narebski
2006-12-05 15:02 ` Uwe Kleine-Koenig
2006-12-05 15:30 ` Andreas Ericsson
2006-12-05 16:00 ` Sven Verdoolaege
2006-12-01 9:02 ` Andy Parkins
2006-12-01 11:00 ` Martin Waitz
2006-12-01 12:09 ` sf
2006-12-01 12:12 ` Martin Waitz
2006-12-01 13:05 ` sf
2006-12-01 13:35 ` Martin Waitz
2006-12-01 13:43 ` Andreas Ericsson
2006-12-01 13:46 ` Martin Waitz
2006-12-01 14:52 ` Andreas Ericsson
2006-12-01 15:00 ` Martin Waitz
2006-12-01 16:38 ` Andreas Ericsson
2006-12-01 16:49 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-01 17:08 ` sf
2006-12-01 18:06 ` Andreas Ericsson
2006-12-01 20:13 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-01 20:30 ` Martin Waitz
2006-12-01 23:23 ` Alan Chandler
2006-12-01 22:06 ` Josef Weidendorfer
2006-12-01 22:12 ` Martin Waitz
2006-12-01 22:26 ` Josef Weidendorfer
2006-12-01 22:40 ` Martin Waitz
2006-12-01 23:17 ` Josef Weidendorfer
2006-12-02 20:24 ` Martin Waitz
2006-12-03 0:55 ` Josef Weidendorfer
2006-12-03 6:29 ` Martin Waitz
2006-12-01 22:26 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-01 22:41 ` sf
2006-12-01 23:03 ` Josef Weidendorfer
2006-12-01 23:09 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-01 23:36 ` Josef Weidendorfer
2006-12-02 0:12 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-02 9:22 ` Andy Parkins
[not found] ` <200612021255.59972.Josef.Weidendorfer@gmx.de>
2006-12-03 9:42 ` Andy Parkins
2006-12-02 11:32 ` Josef Weidendorfer
2006-12-02 19:52 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-02 20:21 ` Martin Waitz
2006-12-02 20:46 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-02 20:58 ` Martin Waitz
2006-12-03 1:11 ` Josef Weidendorfer
2006-12-02 20:18 ` Martin Waitz
2006-12-02 20:44 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-02 21:06 ` Martin Waitz
2006-12-02 21:29 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-02 21:22 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-03 2:07 ` Thoughts about memory requirements in traversals [Was: Re: [RFC] Submodules in GIT] Josef Weidendorfer
2006-12-03 2:25 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-03 2:46 ` Shawn Pearce
2006-12-03 3:21 ` Josef Weidendorfer
2006-12-03 11:10 ` Jakub Narebski
2006-12-03 11:47 ` Josef Weidendorfer
2006-12-03 20:46 ` [RFC] Submodules in GIT Martin Waitz
2006-12-03 22:16 ` Sven Verdoolaege
2006-12-03 22:32 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-03 22:49 ` Jakub Narebski
2006-12-04 11:12 ` Josef Weidendorfer
2006-12-01 23:49 ` sf
2006-12-02 18:57 ` Torgil Svensson
2006-12-02 19:41 ` Linus Torvalds [this message]
2006-12-03 9:19 ` Torgil Svensson
2006-12-03 17:54 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-04 20:26 ` Torgil Svensson
2006-12-04 20:41 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-04 21:36 ` Torgil Svensson
2006-12-05 10:42 ` Andreas Ericsson
2006-12-05 11:09 ` Jakub Narebski
2006-12-05 10:38 ` Andreas Ericsson
2006-12-05 11:01 ` Jakub Narebski
2006-12-03 19:33 ` Andy Parkins
2006-12-05 2:33 ` Daniel Barkalow
2006-12-05 22:07 ` sf
2006-12-09 21:34 ` R. Steve McKown
2006-12-10 11:47 ` Torgil Svensson
2006-12-14 21:27 ` Torgil Svensson
2006-12-14 23:07 ` Josef Weidendorfer
2006-12-15 17:43 ` Torgil Svensson
2006-12-15 21:42 ` Josef Weidendorfer
2006-12-15 23:43 ` Torgil Svensson
2006-12-16 1:13 ` Torgil Svensson
2006-12-16 1:20 ` Torgil Svensson
2006-12-16 1:34 ` Jakub Narebski
2006-12-16 8:40 ` Torgil Svensson
2006-12-16 9:57 ` Jakub Narebski
2006-12-16 10:25 ` Junio C Hamano
2006-12-16 15:05 ` Torgil Svensson
2006-12-16 15:38 ` Torgil Svensson
2006-12-16 16:32 ` Jakub Narebski
2006-12-17 0:21 ` Torgil Svensson
2006-12-16 1:49 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-16 2:12 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-16 8:50 ` Torgil Svensson
2006-12-02 20:12 ` Martin Waitz
2006-12-01 22:55 ` Josef Weidendorfer
2006-12-01 23:07 ` Martin Waitz
2006-12-01 23:30 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-02 0:14 ` Josef Weidendorfer
2006-12-02 0:33 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-02 9:27 ` Andy Parkins
2006-12-04 18:56 ` Michael K. Edwards
2006-12-05 1:31 ` Sam Vilain
2006-12-01 22:35 ` sf
2006-12-08 18:29 ` Jon Loeliger
2006-12-08 18:45 ` Sven Verdoolaege
2006-12-12 8:32 ` Andreas Ericsson
2006-12-01 17:14 ` Martin Waitz
2006-12-01 16:57 ` Martin Waitz
2006-12-01 18:08 ` Andreas Ericsson
2006-12-01 18:51 ` Martin Waitz
2006-12-01 13:51 ` Stephan Feder
2006-12-01 14:58 ` Martin Waitz
2006-12-01 15:47 ` Stephan Feder
2006-12-01 16:54 ` Martin Waitz
2006-12-01 17:33 ` Stephan Feder
2006-12-01 18:48 ` Martin Waitz
2006-12-01 23:34 ` sf
2006-12-02 19:46 ` Martin Waitz
2006-12-01 19:17 ` Andy Parkins
2006-12-01 19:38 ` Martin Waitz
2006-12-01 21:04 ` Andy Parkins
2006-12-01 21:37 ` Martin Waitz
2006-12-01 21:54 ` Andy Parkins
2006-12-01 22:08 ` Martin Waitz
2006-12-02 10:04 ` Andy Parkins
2006-12-02 13:50 ` Josef Weidendorfer
2006-12-02 20:43 ` Martin Waitz
2006-12-03 1:02 ` Josef Weidendorfer
2006-12-02 20:40 ` Martin Waitz
2006-12-02 13:14 ` Jakub Narebski
2006-12-02 13:08 ` Jakub Narebski
2006-12-02 12:48 ` Jakub Narebski
2006-11-28 17:28 ` Daniel Barkalow
2006-11-28 18:08 ` Sven Verdoolaege
2006-11-28 18:37 ` Daniel Barkalow
2006-11-28 19:06 ` Sven Verdoolaege
2006-11-28 20:41 ` Daniel Barkalow
2006-11-28 21:10 ` Shawn Pearce
2006-11-28 21:32 ` Daniel Barkalow
2006-11-28 21:53 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-11-20 22:49 ` Jakub Narebski
2006-11-21 7:21 ` Shawn Pearce
2006-11-22 5:29 ` Petr Baudis
2006-12-02 20:16 ` Jakub Narebski
2006-12-03 1:24 ` Robin Rosenberg
2006-12-03 1:31 ` Jakub Narebski
2006-12-03 12:22 ` Robin Rosenberg
2006-12-03 12:31 ` Jakub Narebski
2006-12-03 11:00 ` Jakub Narebski
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