From: "Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason" <avarab@gmail.com>
To: Taylor Blau <me@ttaylorr.com>
Cc: "Jeff King" <peff@peff.net>,
git@vger.kernel.org, "Junio C Hamano" <gitster@pobox.com>,
"Johannes Sixt" <j6t@kdbg.org>,
"Øystein Walle" <oystwa@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 0/8] Makefile: make command-list.h 2-5x as fast with -jN
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2021 14:37:18 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <211022.86cznxkyu3.gmgdl@evledraar.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <YXDOaNsu8CaytBbr@nand.local>
On Wed, Oct 20 2021, Taylor Blau wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 02:48:24AM +0200, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote:
>> >> Per Eric's Sunshine's upthread comments an awk and Perl implementation
>> >> were both considered before[1].
>> >
>> > Ah sorry, I thought it was just a perl one that had been the
>> > show-stopper. I hadn't noticed the awk one. However, the point of my
>> > patch was to use perl if available, and fall back otherwise. Maybe
>> > that's too ugly, but it does address the concern with Eric's
>> > implementation.
>>
>> I think carrying two implementations is worse than just having the one
>> slightly slower one.
>
> I have no opinion on whether or not assuming that awk or Perl exists and
> can be relied upon during the build is reasonable or not. It seems like
> the former might be a slightly safer assumption than the latter, but in
> all honesty it seems like both are always likely to be around.
>
> In any case, I think the point was that we could improve upon Peff's
> patch by just having a single implementation done in awk. And when I
> wrote that I definitely was in the mindset of being able to rely on awk
> during compilation.
>
>> >> I.e. I think if you e.g. touch Documentation/git-a*.txt with this series
>> >> with/without this awk version the difference in runtime is within the
>> >> error bars. I.e. making the loop faster isn't necessary. It's better to
>> >> get to a point where make can save you from doing all/most of the work
>> >> by checking modification times, rather than making an O(n) loop faster.
>> >
>> > FWIW, I don't agree with this paragraph at all. Parallelizing or reusing
>> > partial results is IMHO inferior to just making things faster.
>>
>> I agree with you in the general case, but for something that's consumed
>> by a make dependency graph I find it easier to debug things if
>> e.g. changing git-add.txt results in a change to git-add.gen, which is
>> then cat'd together.
>>
>> IOW if we had a sufficiently fast C compiler I think I'd still prefer
>> make's existing rules over some equivalent of:
>>
>> cat *.c | super-fast-cc
>>
>> Since similar to how the *.sp files depend on the the *.o files now,
>> declaring the dependency graph allows you to easily add more built
>> things.
>
> This seems like an unfair comparison to me. I might be more sympathetic
> if we were generating a more complicated artifact by running
> generate-cmdlist.sh, but its inputs and outputs seem very well defined
> (and non-complicated) to me.
They are? a foo.o to foo.o input is relatively uncomplicated, and you
can discover the exact dependencies with 3rd party tools, like the GCC
and Clang switches we use generate the .depends dirs[1].
Whereas with the custom shellscripts that have for-loops of their own
like generate-cmdlist.sh what it depends on exactly is relatively opaque
to you until you read the shellscript.
I guess it's a matter of taste, but if you run this with/without this
series:
touch Documentation/git-a*.txt; time make -j1 command-list.h --debug=b V=1
You'll see that before we'd spot that e.g. git-add.txt changed, but
we'll run one target in response to that at the end.
So it's just like what you'd get when you make %.o from %.c to produce a
"program" that links all those %.o together at the end.
So I do think it's a fair comparison, if anything it's unfair to this
series, because as noted you can discover these dependency independently
with GCC etc. for C code. But for a custom *.txt format with an ad-hoc
*.sh to parse it there's no such aid available.
1. $ cat .depend/help.o.d
help.o: help.c cache.h git-compat-util.h compat/bswap.h wildmatch.h \
banned.h strbuf.h hashmap.h hash.h repository.h path.h sha1dc_git.h \
sha1collisiondetection/lib/sha1.h sha256/block/sha256.h list.h advice.h \
gettext.h convert.h string-list.h trace.h trace2.h pack-revindex.h \
oid-array.h mem-pool.h config.h builtin.h commit.h object.h tree.h \
decorate.h gpg-interface.h pretty.h commit-slab.h commit-slab-decl.h \
commit-slab-impl.h exec-cmd.h run-command.h thread-utils.h strvec.h \
levenshtein.h help.h command-list.h column.h version.h refs.h \
parse-options.h prompt.h
[...]
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-10-22 12:50 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 87+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2021-06-24 13:16 Why the Makefile is so eager to re-build & re-link Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-06-24 15:16 ` Jeff King
2021-06-24 15:28 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-06-24 21:30 ` Johannes Sixt
2021-06-25 8:34 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-06-25 9:01 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-06-29 2:13 ` Jeff King
2021-10-20 18:39 ` [PATCH 0/8] Makefile: make command-list.h 2-5x as fast with -jN Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-10-20 18:39 ` [PATCH 1/8] command-list.txt: sort with "LC_ALL=C sort" Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-10-20 18:39 ` [PATCH 2/8] generate-cmdlist.sh: trivial whitespace change Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-10-20 18:39 ` [PATCH 3/8] generate-cmdlist.sh: spawn fewer processes Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-10-20 18:39 ` [PATCH 4/8] generate-cmdlist.sh: don't call get_categories() from category_list() Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-10-20 18:39 ` [PATCH 5/8] generate-cmdlist.sh: run "grep | sort", not "sort | grep" Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-10-20 18:39 ` [PATCH 6/8] generate-cmdlist.sh: replace for loop by printf's auto-repeat feature Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-10-21 14:42 ` Jeff King
2021-10-21 16:25 ` Jeff King
2021-10-20 18:39 ` [PATCH 7/8] Makefile: stop having command-list.h depend on a wildcard Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-10-21 14:45 ` Jeff King
2021-10-21 18:24 ` Junio C Hamano
2021-10-21 22:46 ` Øystein Walle
2021-10-20 18:39 ` [PATCH 8/8] Makefile: assert correct generate-cmdlist.sh output Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-10-20 20:35 ` [PATCH 0/8] Makefile: make command-list.h 2-5x as fast with -jN Jeff King
2021-10-20 21:31 ` Taylor Blau
2021-10-20 23:14 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-10-20 23:46 ` Jeff King
2021-10-21 0:48 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-10-21 2:20 ` Taylor Blau
2021-10-22 12:37 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason [this message]
2021-10-21 14:34 ` Jeff King
2021-10-21 22:34 ` Junio C Hamano
2021-10-22 10:51 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-10-22 18:31 ` Jeff King
2021-10-22 20:50 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-10-21 5:39 ` Eric Sunshine
2021-10-22 19:36 ` [PATCH v2 00/10] Makefile: make generate-cmdlist.sh much faster Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-10-22 19:36 ` [PATCH v2 01/10] command-list.txt: sort with "LC_ALL=C sort" Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-10-25 18:29 ` Junio C Hamano
2021-10-25 21:22 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-10-25 21:26 ` Junio C Hamano
2021-10-22 19:36 ` [PATCH v2 02/10] generate-cmdlist.sh: trivial whitespace change Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-10-22 19:36 ` [PATCH v2 03/10] generate-cmdlist.sh: spawn fewer processes Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-10-22 19:36 ` [PATCH v2 04/10] generate-cmdlist.sh: don't call get_categories() from category_list() Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-10-22 19:36 ` [PATCH v2 05/10] generate-cmdlist.sh: run "grep | sort", not "sort | grep" Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-10-22 19:36 ` [PATCH v2 06/10] generate-cmdlist.sh: replace for loop by printf's auto-repeat feature Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-10-22 19:36 ` [PATCH v2 07/10] generate-cmdlist.sh: stop sorting category lines Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-10-25 16:39 ` Jeff King
2021-10-22 19:36 ` [PATCH v2 08/10] generate-cmdlist.sh: do not shell out to "sed" Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-10-25 16:46 ` Jeff King
2021-10-25 17:52 ` Jeff King
2021-10-22 19:36 ` [PATCH v2 09/10] generate-cmdlist.sh: replace "grep' invocation with a shell version Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-10-23 22:19 ` Junio C Hamano
2021-10-23 22:26 ` Junio C Hamano
2021-10-22 19:36 ` [PATCH v2 10/10] generate-cmdlist.sh: replace "cut", "tr" and "grep" with pure-shell Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-10-23 22:26 ` Junio C Hamano
2021-10-22 21:20 ` [PATCH v2 00/10] Makefile: make generate-cmdlist.sh much faster Taylor Blau
2021-10-23 22:34 ` Junio C Hamano
2021-10-25 16:57 ` Jeff King
2021-11-05 14:07 ` [PATCH v3 00/10] generate-cmdlist.sh: make it (and "make") run faster Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-11-05 14:07 ` [PATCH v3 01/10] command-list.txt: sort with "LC_ALL=C sort" Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-11-05 22:45 ` Junio C Hamano
2021-11-06 4:26 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-11-08 19:18 ` Junio C Hamano
2021-11-05 14:08 ` [PATCH v3 02/10] generate-cmdlist.sh: trivial whitespace change Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-11-05 14:08 ` [PATCH v3 03/10] generate-cmdlist.sh: spawn fewer processes Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-11-05 22:47 ` Junio C Hamano
2021-11-06 4:23 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-11-05 14:08 ` [PATCH v3 04/10] generate-cmdlist.sh: don't call get_categories() from category_list() Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-11-05 14:08 ` [PATCH v3 05/10] generate-cmdlist.sh: run "grep | sort", not "sort | grep" Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-11-05 14:08 ` [PATCH v3 06/10] generate-cmdlist.sh: replace for loop by printf's auto-repeat feature Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-11-05 14:08 ` [PATCH v3 07/10] generate-cmdlist.sh: stop sorting category lines Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-11-05 14:08 ` [PATCH v3 08/10] generate-cmdlist.sh: do not shell out to "sed" Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-11-05 14:08 ` [PATCH v3 09/10] generate-cmdlist.sh: replace "grep' invocation with a shell version Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-11-05 14:08 ` [PATCH v3 10/10] generate-cmdlist.sh: don't parse command-list.txt thrice Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-06-25 21:17 ` Why the Makefile is so eager to re-build & re-link Felipe Contreras
2021-06-29 5:04 ` Eric Sunshine
2021-06-24 23:35 ` Øystein Walle
2021-06-24 23:39 ` Øystein Walle
2021-06-25 0:11 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-07-02 11:58 ` [PATCH] Documentation/Makefile: don't re-build on 'git version' changes Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-07-02 15:53 ` Junio C Hamano
2021-07-03 11:58 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-07-05 19:48 ` Junio C Hamano
2021-07-03 1:05 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-07-03 12:03 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-07-03 18:56 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-07-05 19:38 ` Junio C Hamano
2021-07-06 22:25 ` Felipe Contreras
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