* The sad state of git.wiki.kernel.org @ 2023-02-03 18:22 Konstantin Ryabitsev 2023-02-03 19:43 ` Junio C Hamano 2023-02-04 11:27 ` Jeff King 0 siblings, 2 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Konstantin Ryabitsev @ 2023-02-03 18:22 UTC (permalink / raw) To: git Hello, all: There is a very sad and unkempt wiki instance running on git.wiki.kernel.org. It grew up in the age when Internet was young, bright-eyed, and "anyone can edit it" approach was seen as a net positive thing. Then, as the armies of bots and SEO consultants became increasingly difficult to fight off, the instance ended up being locked down just to avoid having to spend all day rolling back spam edits. Today, most information found on the wiki is probably outdated and therefore potentially harmful. I would like to solicit ideas what to do with this resource. # Should it be migrated to RTD-style docs? We have stopped providing new Mediawiki instances at kernel.org quite some time back, replacing the offering with Dokuwiki. Today, we don't spin up new Dokuwiki instances either and everyone is steered towards readthedocs-style documentation instead, which is a much more sane and manageable medium than wikis, especially when it comes to technical docs (see https://korg.docs.kernel.org/docs.html). However, it's unclear if this is even needed for this wiki, considering the existence of https://git-scm.com/doc. # Should it be archived as a static site? It's possible to turn git.wiki.kernel.org into a static site with a large header on every page that it contains historical archival information, with a link to https://git-scm.com/doc # Should it be archived and put out of its misery? The last option is to just archive the site and put it out of its increasingly irrelevant existence. Thoughts? -Konstantin ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: The sad state of git.wiki.kernel.org 2023-02-03 18:22 The sad state of git.wiki.kernel.org Konstantin Ryabitsev @ 2023-02-03 19:43 ` Junio C Hamano 2023-02-04 11:27 ` Jeff King 1 sibling, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Junio C Hamano @ 2023-02-03 19:43 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Konstantin Ryabitsev; +Cc: git Konstantin Ryabitsev <konstantin@linuxfoundation.org> writes: > Today, most information found on the wiki is probably outdated and therefore > potentially harmful. I would like to solicit ideas what to do with this > resource. > > # Should it be migrated to RTD-style docs? > > We have stopped providing new Mediawiki instances at kernel.org quite some > time back, replacing the offering with Dokuwiki. Today, we don't spin up new > Dokuwiki instances either and everyone is steered towards readthedocs-style > documentation instead, which is a much more sane and manageable medium than > wikis, especially when it comes to technical docs (see > https://korg.docs.kernel.org/docs.html). > > However, it's unclear if this is even needed for this wiki, considering the > existence of https://git-scm.com/doc. I tend to agree with this point. Presense on RTD is nice, but what is left in git.wiki.k.o is not something I'd consider porting it over; the contents of git-scm.com/ might be but that is off topic here. > # Should it be archived as a static site? > > It's possible to turn git.wiki.kernel.org into a static site with a large > header on every page that it contains historical archival information, with a > link to https://git-scm.com/doc I do not know the size of regular traffic to the git.wiki.k.o; if many people visit (on purpose or by mistake) there to warrant such a redirection, then it is very much appreciated. No current contents with just "redirect in 5 seconds---please update your bookmark" may be fine. > # Should it be archived and put out of its misery? > > The last option is to just archive the site and put it out of its increasingly > irrelevant existence. Archiving so that people can retrieve the contents for whatever reason may be needed no matter what other things are done, I would imagine. Thanks. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: The sad state of git.wiki.kernel.org 2023-02-03 18:22 The sad state of git.wiki.kernel.org Konstantin Ryabitsev 2023-02-03 19:43 ` Junio C Hamano @ 2023-02-04 11:27 ` Jeff King 2023-02-04 13:13 ` Andrei Rybak 2023-02-04 14:03 ` Christian Couder 1 sibling, 2 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Jeff King @ 2023-02-04 11:27 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Konstantin Ryabitsev; +Cc: git On Fri, Feb 03, 2023 at 01:22:55PM -0500, Konstantin Ryabitsev wrote: > Today, most information found on the wiki is probably outdated and therefore > potentially harmful. I would like to solicit ideas what to do with this > resource. Yeah, my assumption is that it's totally out of date these days. I admit that's subjective and maybe there are people maintaining/using it. I kind of suspect not, though (and if they don't reply to this thread, perhaps we can assume they don't exist, or at least not connected enough to the development community to matter). > # Should it be migrated to RTD-style docs? > > We have stopped providing new Mediawiki instances at kernel.org quite some > time back, replacing the offering with Dokuwiki. Today, we don't spin up new > Dokuwiki instances either and everyone is steered towards readthedocs-style > documentation instead, which is a much more sane and manageable medium than > wikis, especially when it comes to technical docs (see > https://korg.docs.kernel.org/docs.html). > > However, it's unclear if this is even needed for this wiki, considering the > existence of https://git-scm.com/doc. Yeah, for any content we prepare as a community, the Documentation/ is the right spot, and git-scm.com is just mirroring those already. For meta-information like current-year GSoC ideas, etc, we've been using git.github.io. It's not quite a wiki, in that you need access and contribute to it via the git clone, but IMHO both of those are features. Spam is a non-issue, and anybody who wants to help out can do so either by being a committer, or just making a one-off pull request. > # Should it be archived as a static site? > > It's possible to turn git.wiki.kernel.org into a static site with a large > header on every page that it contains historical archival information, with a > link to https://git-scm.com/doc This would be my preference, just because some of the old content may still have value. Some pages (like old gsoc stuff) would better redirect to git.github.io, but it is probably not worth the time to even try to classify pages. > # Should it be archived and put out of its misery? > > The last option is to just archive the site and put it out of its increasingly > irrelevant existence. I'm also OK with this, though if it is not too much work to serve the old content with a warning that it may be out-of-date, that seems better. -Peff ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: The sad state of git.wiki.kernel.org 2023-02-04 11:27 ` Jeff King @ 2023-02-04 13:13 ` Andrei Rybak 2023-02-04 14:03 ` Christian Couder 1 sibling, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Andrei Rybak @ 2023-02-04 13:13 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Jeff King, Konstantin Ryabitsev; +Cc: git On 04/02/2023 12:27, Jeff King wrote: > On Fri, Feb 03, 2023 at 01:22:55PM -0500, Konstantin Ryabitsev wrote: > >> Today, most information found on the wiki is probably outdated and therefore >> potentially harmful. I would like to solicit ideas what to do with this >> resource. > > Yeah, my assumption is that it's totally out of date these days. I admit > that's subjective and maybe there are people maintaining/using it. I > kind of suspect not, though (and if they don't reply to this thread, > perhaps we can assume they don't exist, or at least not connected enough > to the development community to matter). My knowledge of MediaWiki is not good enough to give a definitive answer, but it seems that active editing stopped at the end of 2021. One of most actively edited articles seems to be "GitHosting": https://git.wiki.kernel.org/index.php?title=GitHosting&action=history It seems that it is mostly edited by editors who are promoting Git hosting they are affiliated with. Article "Interfaces, frontends, and tools" also got a lot of edits in 2020 and some in 2021: https://git.wiki.kernel.org/index.php?title=Interfaces,_frontends,_and_tools&action=history Diff of the latest edit on the article "Git" is a bit telling: https://git.wiki.kernel.org/index.php?title=Git&diff=31274&oldid=8420 Website https://git-scm.com existed in some form since at least 2008, current website's initial commit dates to 2012-03-06, but the article "Git" on the wiki didn't have a link to it until 2019. The article also hasn't been edited at all between 2010 and 2019. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: The sad state of git.wiki.kernel.org 2023-02-04 11:27 ` Jeff King 2023-02-04 13:13 ` Andrei Rybak @ 2023-02-04 14:03 ` Christian Couder 2023-02-06 21:41 ` Konstantin Ryabitsev 1 sibling, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Christian Couder @ 2023-02-04 14:03 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Jeff King; +Cc: Konstantin Ryabitsev, git On Sat, Feb 4, 2023 at 12:48 PM Jeff King <peff@peff.net> wrote: > > On Fri, Feb 03, 2023 at 01:22:55PM -0500, Konstantin Ryabitsev wrote: > > # Should it be archived as a static site? > > > > It's possible to turn git.wiki.kernel.org into a static site with a large > > header on every page that it contains historical archival information, with a > > link to https://git-scm.com/doc > > This would be my preference, just because some of the old content may > still have value. Some pages (like old gsoc stuff) would better redirect > to git.github.io, but it is probably not worth the time to even try to > classify pages. This would be my preference too. I agree that some old content might still have some value. We could also move or redirect some old content to git.github.io, but I am not sure it's worth the time either. > > # Should it be archived and put out of its misery? > > > > The last option is to just archive the site and put it out of its increasingly > > irrelevant existence. > > I'm also OK with this, though if it is not too much work to serve the > old content with a warning that it may be out-of-date, that seems > better. I agree. Thanks, Christian. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: The sad state of git.wiki.kernel.org 2023-02-04 14:03 ` Christian Couder @ 2023-02-06 21:41 ` Konstantin Ryabitsev 2023-02-07 11:53 ` Christian Couder 2023-02-07 18:09 ` Jeff King 0 siblings, 2 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Konstantin Ryabitsev @ 2023-02-06 21:41 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Christian Couder; +Cc: Jeff King, git On Sat, Feb 04, 2023 at 03:03:16PM +0100, Christian Couder wrote: > > > # Should it be archived as a static site? > > > > > > It's possible to turn git.wiki.kernel.org into a static site with a large > > > header on every page that it contains historical archival information, with a > > > link to https://git-scm.com/doc > > > > This would be my preference, just because some of the old content may > > still have value. Some pages (like old gsoc stuff) would better redirect > > to git.github.io, but it is probably not worth the time to even try to > > classify pages. > > This would be my preference too. I agree that some old content might > still have some value. We could also move or redirect some old content > to git.github.io, but I am not sure it's worth the time either. Okay, here's what I have: https://archive.kernel.org/oldwiki/git.wiki.kernel.org/ It's just a static scrape excluding all Special: and User: pages, and carrying a very large "OBSOLETE CONTENT" warning. The idea is that requests to git.wiki.kernel.org will be redirected to the archive pages and thus hopefully preserve the content for historical reasons. Unless someone objects within the next few days, I'll proceed with this plan. -K ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: The sad state of git.wiki.kernel.org 2023-02-06 21:41 ` Konstantin Ryabitsev @ 2023-02-07 11:53 ` Christian Couder 2023-02-07 18:09 ` Jeff King 1 sibling, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Christian Couder @ 2023-02-07 11:53 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Konstantin Ryabitsev; +Cc: Jeff King, git On Mon, Feb 6, 2023 at 10:41 PM Konstantin Ryabitsev <konstantin@linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > > On Sat, Feb 04, 2023 at 03:03:16PM +0100, Christian Couder wrote: > > > > # Should it be archived as a static site? > > > > > > > > It's possible to turn git.wiki.kernel.org into a static site with a large > > > > header on every page that it contains historical archival information, with a > > > > link to https://git-scm.com/doc > > > > > > This would be my preference, just because some of the old content may > > > still have value. Some pages (like old gsoc stuff) would better redirect > > > to git.github.io, but it is probably not worth the time to even try to > > > classify pages. > > > > This would be my preference too. I agree that some old content might > > still have some value. We could also move or redirect some old content > > to git.github.io, but I am not sure it's worth the time either. > > Okay, here's what I have: > > https://archive.kernel.org/oldwiki/git.wiki.kernel.org/ > > It's just a static scrape excluding all Special: and User: pages, and carrying > a very large "OBSOLETE CONTENT" warning. > > The idea is that requests to git.wiki.kernel.org will be redirected to the > archive pages and thus hopefully preserve the content for historical reasons. > > Unless someone objects within the next few days, I'll proceed with this plan. Great, thanks! ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: The sad state of git.wiki.kernel.org 2023-02-06 21:41 ` Konstantin Ryabitsev 2023-02-07 11:53 ` Christian Couder @ 2023-02-07 18:09 ` Jeff King 2023-02-09 21:31 ` Konstantin Ryabitsev 1 sibling, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Jeff King @ 2023-02-07 18:09 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Konstantin Ryabitsev; +Cc: Christian Couder, git On Mon, Feb 06, 2023 at 04:41:01PM -0500, Konstantin Ryabitsev wrote: > On Sat, Feb 04, 2023 at 03:03:16PM +0100, Christian Couder wrote: > > > > # Should it be archived as a static site? > > > > > > > > It's possible to turn git.wiki.kernel.org into a static site with a large > > > > header on every page that it contains historical archival information, with a > > > > link to https://git-scm.com/doc > > > > > > This would be my preference, just because some of the old content may > > > still have value. Some pages (like old gsoc stuff) would better redirect > > > to git.github.io, but it is probably not worth the time to even try to > > > classify pages. > > > > This would be my preference too. I agree that some old content might > > still have some value. We could also move or redirect some old content > > to git.github.io, but I am not sure it's worth the time either. > > Okay, here's what I have: > > https://archive.kernel.org/oldwiki/git.wiki.kernel.org/ > > It's just a static scrape excluding all Special: and User: pages, and carrying > a very large "OBSOLETE CONTENT" warning. That looks just fine to me. Thanks for taking care of this! -Peff ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: The sad state of git.wiki.kernel.org 2023-02-07 18:09 ` Jeff King @ 2023-02-09 21:31 ` Konstantin Ryabitsev 2023-02-09 21:46 ` Junio C Hamano 0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Konstantin Ryabitsev @ 2023-02-09 21:31 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Jeff King; +Cc: Christian Couder, git On Tue, Feb 07, 2023 at 01:09:58PM -0500, Jeff King wrote: > > Okay, here's what I have: > > > > https://archive.kernel.org/oldwiki/git.wiki.kernel.org/ > > > > It's just a static scrape excluding all Special: and User: pages, and carrying > > a very large "OBSOLETE CONTENT" warning. > > That looks just fine to me. Thanks for taking care of this! This is now done. Thank you, everyone. The git.wiki.kernel.org site is now permanently archived. -Konstantin ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: The sad state of git.wiki.kernel.org 2023-02-09 21:31 ` Konstantin Ryabitsev @ 2023-02-09 21:46 ` Junio C Hamano 0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Junio C Hamano @ 2023-02-09 21:46 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Konstantin Ryabitsev; +Cc: Jeff King, Christian Couder, git Konstantin Ryabitsev <konstantin@linuxfoundation.org> writes: > On Tue, Feb 07, 2023 at 01:09:58PM -0500, Jeff King wrote: >> > Okay, here's what I have: >> > >> > https://archive.kernel.org/oldwiki/git.wiki.kernel.org/ >> > >> > It's just a static scrape excluding all Special: and User: pages, and carrying >> > a very large "OBSOLETE CONTENT" warning. >> >> That looks just fine to me. Thanks for taking care of this! > > This is now done. Thank you, everyone. > The git.wiki.kernel.org site is now permanently archived. Thanks. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2023-02-09 21:46 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 10+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2023-02-03 18:22 The sad state of git.wiki.kernel.org Konstantin Ryabitsev 2023-02-03 19:43 ` Junio C Hamano 2023-02-04 11:27 ` Jeff King 2023-02-04 13:13 ` Andrei Rybak 2023-02-04 14:03 ` Christian Couder 2023-02-06 21:41 ` Konstantin Ryabitsev 2023-02-07 11:53 ` Christian Couder 2023-02-07 18:09 ` Jeff King 2023-02-09 21:31 ` Konstantin Ryabitsev 2023-02-09 21:46 ` Junio C Hamano
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