* The sad state of git.wiki.kernel.org
@ 2023-02-03 18:22 Konstantin Ryabitsev
2023-02-03 19:43 ` Junio C Hamano
2023-02-04 11:27 ` Jeff King
0 siblings, 2 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Konstantin Ryabitsev @ 2023-02-03 18:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: git
Hello, all:
There is a very sad and unkempt wiki instance running on git.wiki.kernel.org.
It grew up in the age when Internet was young, bright-eyed, and "anyone can
edit it" approach was seen as a net positive thing. Then, as the armies of
bots and SEO consultants became increasingly difficult to fight off, the
instance ended up being locked down just to avoid having to spend all day
rolling back spam edits.
Today, most information found on the wiki is probably outdated and therefore
potentially harmful. I would like to solicit ideas what to do with this
resource.
# Should it be migrated to RTD-style docs?
We have stopped providing new Mediawiki instances at kernel.org quite some
time back, replacing the offering with Dokuwiki. Today, we don't spin up new
Dokuwiki instances either and everyone is steered towards readthedocs-style
documentation instead, which is a much more sane and manageable medium than
wikis, especially when it comes to technical docs (see
https://korg.docs.kernel.org/docs.html).
However, it's unclear if this is even needed for this wiki, considering the
existence of https://git-scm.com/doc.
# Should it be archived as a static site?
It's possible to turn git.wiki.kernel.org into a static site with a large
header on every page that it contains historical archival information, with a
link to https://git-scm.com/doc
# Should it be archived and put out of its misery?
The last option is to just archive the site and put it out of its increasingly
irrelevant existence.
Thoughts?
-Konstantin
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: The sad state of git.wiki.kernel.org
2023-02-03 18:22 The sad state of git.wiki.kernel.org Konstantin Ryabitsev
@ 2023-02-03 19:43 ` Junio C Hamano
2023-02-04 11:27 ` Jeff King
1 sibling, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Junio C Hamano @ 2023-02-03 19:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Konstantin Ryabitsev; +Cc: git
Konstantin Ryabitsev <konstantin@linuxfoundation.org> writes:
> Today, most information found on the wiki is probably outdated and therefore
> potentially harmful. I would like to solicit ideas what to do with this
> resource.
>
> # Should it be migrated to RTD-style docs?
>
> We have stopped providing new Mediawiki instances at kernel.org quite some
> time back, replacing the offering with Dokuwiki. Today, we don't spin up new
> Dokuwiki instances either and everyone is steered towards readthedocs-style
> documentation instead, which is a much more sane and manageable medium than
> wikis, especially when it comes to technical docs (see
> https://korg.docs.kernel.org/docs.html).
>
> However, it's unclear if this is even needed for this wiki, considering the
> existence of https://git-scm.com/doc.
I tend to agree with this point. Presense on RTD is nice, but what
is left in git.wiki.k.o is not something I'd consider porting it
over; the contents of git-scm.com/ might be but that is off topic
here.
> # Should it be archived as a static site?
>
> It's possible to turn git.wiki.kernel.org into a static site with a large
> header on every page that it contains historical archival information, with a
> link to https://git-scm.com/doc
I do not know the size of regular traffic to the git.wiki.k.o; if
many people visit (on purpose or by mistake) there to warrant such a
redirection, then it is very much appreciated. No current contents
with just "redirect in 5 seconds---please update your bookmark" may
be fine.
> # Should it be archived and put out of its misery?
>
> The last option is to just archive the site and put it out of its increasingly
> irrelevant existence.
Archiving so that people can retrieve the contents for whatever
reason may be needed no matter what other things are done, I would
imagine.
Thanks.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: The sad state of git.wiki.kernel.org
2023-02-03 18:22 The sad state of git.wiki.kernel.org Konstantin Ryabitsev
2023-02-03 19:43 ` Junio C Hamano
@ 2023-02-04 11:27 ` Jeff King
2023-02-04 13:13 ` Andrei Rybak
2023-02-04 14:03 ` Christian Couder
1 sibling, 2 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Jeff King @ 2023-02-04 11:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Konstantin Ryabitsev; +Cc: git
On Fri, Feb 03, 2023 at 01:22:55PM -0500, Konstantin Ryabitsev wrote:
> Today, most information found on the wiki is probably outdated and therefore
> potentially harmful. I would like to solicit ideas what to do with this
> resource.
Yeah, my assumption is that it's totally out of date these days. I admit
that's subjective and maybe there are people maintaining/using it. I
kind of suspect not, though (and if they don't reply to this thread,
perhaps we can assume they don't exist, or at least not connected enough
to the development community to matter).
> # Should it be migrated to RTD-style docs?
>
> We have stopped providing new Mediawiki instances at kernel.org quite some
> time back, replacing the offering with Dokuwiki. Today, we don't spin up new
> Dokuwiki instances either and everyone is steered towards readthedocs-style
> documentation instead, which is a much more sane and manageable medium than
> wikis, especially when it comes to technical docs (see
> https://korg.docs.kernel.org/docs.html).
>
> However, it's unclear if this is even needed for this wiki, considering the
> existence of https://git-scm.com/doc.
Yeah, for any content we prepare as a community, the Documentation/ is
the right spot, and git-scm.com is just mirroring those already.
For meta-information like current-year GSoC ideas, etc, we've been using
git.github.io. It's not quite a wiki, in that you need access and
contribute to it via the git clone, but IMHO both of those are features.
Spam is a non-issue, and anybody who wants to help out can do so either
by being a committer, or just making a one-off pull request.
> # Should it be archived as a static site?
>
> It's possible to turn git.wiki.kernel.org into a static site with a large
> header on every page that it contains historical archival information, with a
> link to https://git-scm.com/doc
This would be my preference, just because some of the old content may
still have value. Some pages (like old gsoc stuff) would better redirect
to git.github.io, but it is probably not worth the time to even try to
classify pages.
> # Should it be archived and put out of its misery?
>
> The last option is to just archive the site and put it out of its increasingly
> irrelevant existence.
I'm also OK with this, though if it is not too much work to serve the
old content with a warning that it may be out-of-date, that seems
better.
-Peff
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: The sad state of git.wiki.kernel.org
2023-02-04 11:27 ` Jeff King
@ 2023-02-04 13:13 ` Andrei Rybak
2023-02-04 14:03 ` Christian Couder
1 sibling, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Andrei Rybak @ 2023-02-04 13:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Jeff King, Konstantin Ryabitsev; +Cc: git
On 04/02/2023 12:27, Jeff King wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 03, 2023 at 01:22:55PM -0500, Konstantin Ryabitsev wrote:
>
>> Today, most information found on the wiki is probably outdated and therefore
>> potentially harmful. I would like to solicit ideas what to do with this
>> resource.
>
> Yeah, my assumption is that it's totally out of date these days. I admit
> that's subjective and maybe there are people maintaining/using it. I
> kind of suspect not, though (and if they don't reply to this thread,
> perhaps we can assume they don't exist, or at least not connected enough
> to the development community to matter).
My knowledge of MediaWiki is not good enough to give a definitive answer,
but it seems that active editing stopped at the end of 2021.
One of most actively edited articles seems to be "GitHosting":
https://git.wiki.kernel.org/index.php?title=GitHosting&action=history
It seems that it is mostly edited by editors who are promoting Git hosting
they are affiliated with. Article "Interfaces, frontends, and tools" also
got a lot of edits in 2020 and some in 2021:
https://git.wiki.kernel.org/index.php?title=Interfaces,_frontends,_and_tools&action=history
Diff of the latest edit on the article "Git" is a bit telling:
https://git.wiki.kernel.org/index.php?title=Git&diff=31274&oldid=8420
Website https://git-scm.com existed in some form since at least 2008,
current website's initial commit dates to 2012-03-06, but the article
"Git" on the wiki didn't have a link to it until 2019. The article also
hasn't been edited at all between 2010 and 2019.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: The sad state of git.wiki.kernel.org
2023-02-04 11:27 ` Jeff King
2023-02-04 13:13 ` Andrei Rybak
@ 2023-02-04 14:03 ` Christian Couder
2023-02-06 21:41 ` Konstantin Ryabitsev
1 sibling, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Christian Couder @ 2023-02-04 14:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Jeff King; +Cc: Konstantin Ryabitsev, git
On Sat, Feb 4, 2023 at 12:48 PM Jeff King <peff@peff.net> wrote:
>
> On Fri, Feb 03, 2023 at 01:22:55PM -0500, Konstantin Ryabitsev wrote:
> > # Should it be archived as a static site?
> >
> > It's possible to turn git.wiki.kernel.org into a static site with a large
> > header on every page that it contains historical archival information, with a
> > link to https://git-scm.com/doc
>
> This would be my preference, just because some of the old content may
> still have value. Some pages (like old gsoc stuff) would better redirect
> to git.github.io, but it is probably not worth the time to even try to
> classify pages.
This would be my preference too. I agree that some old content might
still have some value. We could also move or redirect some old content
to git.github.io, but I am not sure it's worth the time either.
> > # Should it be archived and put out of its misery?
> >
> > The last option is to just archive the site and put it out of its increasingly
> > irrelevant existence.
>
> I'm also OK with this, though if it is not too much work to serve the
> old content with a warning that it may be out-of-date, that seems
> better.
I agree.
Thanks,
Christian.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: The sad state of git.wiki.kernel.org
2023-02-04 14:03 ` Christian Couder
@ 2023-02-06 21:41 ` Konstantin Ryabitsev
2023-02-07 11:53 ` Christian Couder
2023-02-07 18:09 ` Jeff King
0 siblings, 2 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Konstantin Ryabitsev @ 2023-02-06 21:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Christian Couder; +Cc: Jeff King, git
On Sat, Feb 04, 2023 at 03:03:16PM +0100, Christian Couder wrote:
> > > # Should it be archived as a static site?
> > >
> > > It's possible to turn git.wiki.kernel.org into a static site with a large
> > > header on every page that it contains historical archival information, with a
> > > link to https://git-scm.com/doc
> >
> > This would be my preference, just because some of the old content may
> > still have value. Some pages (like old gsoc stuff) would better redirect
> > to git.github.io, but it is probably not worth the time to even try to
> > classify pages.
>
> This would be my preference too. I agree that some old content might
> still have some value. We could also move or redirect some old content
> to git.github.io, but I am not sure it's worth the time either.
Okay, here's what I have:
https://archive.kernel.org/oldwiki/git.wiki.kernel.org/
It's just a static scrape excluding all Special: and User: pages, and carrying
a very large "OBSOLETE CONTENT" warning.
The idea is that requests to git.wiki.kernel.org will be redirected to the
archive pages and thus hopefully preserve the content for historical reasons.
Unless someone objects within the next few days, I'll proceed with this plan.
-K
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: The sad state of git.wiki.kernel.org
2023-02-06 21:41 ` Konstantin Ryabitsev
@ 2023-02-07 11:53 ` Christian Couder
2023-02-07 18:09 ` Jeff King
1 sibling, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Christian Couder @ 2023-02-07 11:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Konstantin Ryabitsev; +Cc: Jeff King, git
On Mon, Feb 6, 2023 at 10:41 PM Konstantin Ryabitsev
<konstantin@linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>
> On Sat, Feb 04, 2023 at 03:03:16PM +0100, Christian Couder wrote:
> > > > # Should it be archived as a static site?
> > > >
> > > > It's possible to turn git.wiki.kernel.org into a static site with a large
> > > > header on every page that it contains historical archival information, with a
> > > > link to https://git-scm.com/doc
> > >
> > > This would be my preference, just because some of the old content may
> > > still have value. Some pages (like old gsoc stuff) would better redirect
> > > to git.github.io, but it is probably not worth the time to even try to
> > > classify pages.
> >
> > This would be my preference too. I agree that some old content might
> > still have some value. We could also move or redirect some old content
> > to git.github.io, but I am not sure it's worth the time either.
>
> Okay, here's what I have:
>
> https://archive.kernel.org/oldwiki/git.wiki.kernel.org/
>
> It's just a static scrape excluding all Special: and User: pages, and carrying
> a very large "OBSOLETE CONTENT" warning.
>
> The idea is that requests to git.wiki.kernel.org will be redirected to the
> archive pages and thus hopefully preserve the content for historical reasons.
>
> Unless someone objects within the next few days, I'll proceed with this plan.
Great, thanks!
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: The sad state of git.wiki.kernel.org
2023-02-06 21:41 ` Konstantin Ryabitsev
2023-02-07 11:53 ` Christian Couder
@ 2023-02-07 18:09 ` Jeff King
2023-02-09 21:31 ` Konstantin Ryabitsev
1 sibling, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Jeff King @ 2023-02-07 18:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Konstantin Ryabitsev; +Cc: Christian Couder, git
On Mon, Feb 06, 2023 at 04:41:01PM -0500, Konstantin Ryabitsev wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 04, 2023 at 03:03:16PM +0100, Christian Couder wrote:
> > > > # Should it be archived as a static site?
> > > >
> > > > It's possible to turn git.wiki.kernel.org into a static site with a large
> > > > header on every page that it contains historical archival information, with a
> > > > link to https://git-scm.com/doc
> > >
> > > This would be my preference, just because some of the old content may
> > > still have value. Some pages (like old gsoc stuff) would better redirect
> > > to git.github.io, but it is probably not worth the time to even try to
> > > classify pages.
> >
> > This would be my preference too. I agree that some old content might
> > still have some value. We could also move or redirect some old content
> > to git.github.io, but I am not sure it's worth the time either.
>
> Okay, here's what I have:
>
> https://archive.kernel.org/oldwiki/git.wiki.kernel.org/
>
> It's just a static scrape excluding all Special: and User: pages, and carrying
> a very large "OBSOLETE CONTENT" warning.
That looks just fine to me. Thanks for taking care of this!
-Peff
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: The sad state of git.wiki.kernel.org
2023-02-07 18:09 ` Jeff King
@ 2023-02-09 21:31 ` Konstantin Ryabitsev
2023-02-09 21:46 ` Junio C Hamano
0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Konstantin Ryabitsev @ 2023-02-09 21:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Jeff King; +Cc: Christian Couder, git
On Tue, Feb 07, 2023 at 01:09:58PM -0500, Jeff King wrote:
> > Okay, here's what I have:
> >
> > https://archive.kernel.org/oldwiki/git.wiki.kernel.org/
> >
> > It's just a static scrape excluding all Special: and User: pages, and carrying
> > a very large "OBSOLETE CONTENT" warning.
>
> That looks just fine to me. Thanks for taking care of this!
This is now done. Thank you, everyone.
The git.wiki.kernel.org site is now permanently archived.
-Konstantin
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: The sad state of git.wiki.kernel.org
2023-02-09 21:31 ` Konstantin Ryabitsev
@ 2023-02-09 21:46 ` Junio C Hamano
0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Junio C Hamano @ 2023-02-09 21:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Konstantin Ryabitsev; +Cc: Jeff King, Christian Couder, git
Konstantin Ryabitsev <konstantin@linuxfoundation.org> writes:
> On Tue, Feb 07, 2023 at 01:09:58PM -0500, Jeff King wrote:
>> > Okay, here's what I have:
>> >
>> > https://archive.kernel.org/oldwiki/git.wiki.kernel.org/
>> >
>> > It's just a static scrape excluding all Special: and User: pages, and carrying
>> > a very large "OBSOLETE CONTENT" warning.
>>
>> That looks just fine to me. Thanks for taking care of this!
>
> This is now done. Thank you, everyone.
> The git.wiki.kernel.org site is now permanently archived.
Thanks.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2023-02-09 21:46 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 10+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2023-02-03 18:22 The sad state of git.wiki.kernel.org Konstantin Ryabitsev
2023-02-03 19:43 ` Junio C Hamano
2023-02-04 11:27 ` Jeff King
2023-02-04 13:13 ` Andrei Rybak
2023-02-04 14:03 ` Christian Couder
2023-02-06 21:41 ` Konstantin Ryabitsev
2023-02-07 11:53 ` Christian Couder
2023-02-07 18:09 ` Jeff King
2023-02-09 21:31 ` Konstantin Ryabitsev
2023-02-09 21:46 ` Junio C Hamano
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