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From: "Adrienne G. Thompson" <adriennegayethompson@gmail.com>
To: "'smee" <overthefalls@opengroupware.ch>
Cc: libreplanet-discuss <libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org>,
	Aaron Wolf <wolftune@riseup.net>
Subject: Re: Apologies
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 14:03:32 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CACvtE5FcTA9rOgQE+nPWp0kKoDgnCJHZwbjCqMNHRuJtyza2Rw@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1569349597.11472.1.camel@opengroupware.ch>


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'Smee:

I still think this campaign against RMS was coordinated (call me a
> conspiracy nut) and that they are accomplishing some of their goals
> right now.
>

It was very well coordinated with the help of big money!


> Thanks Adrienne for sticking up for free speech.
>

You're welcome 'Smee. Have a nice day!!

Adrienne



>
>
> On Tue, 2019-09-24 at 11:08 -0700, Aaron Wolf wrote:
> > Adrienne, that's a valid concern. People shouldn't be walking on
> > eggshells. However, that's a misreading of the case here. This is
> > more
> > like 'Smee realizing on self-reflection that they actually *were*
> > making
> > assumptions and not being as considerate as they wish to be. I don't
> > think this apology was an insincere fear-based one but one in which
> > it's
> > a modeling of holding oneself to a high standard.
> >
> > Again, you're right in that we live in a context where *reasonable*
> > discourse gets grotesquely misrepresented and then people self-censor
> > out of fear. That is a totally valid problem, and we should not
> > accept
> > it as okay.
> >
> > At the same time, we should work to treat everyone with some
> > benefit-of-the-doubt and compassion. And there's nothing wrong with
> > apologizing for not living up to that standard, even if someone's
> > worst
> > was *still* better than many people's normal.
> >
> > If I write something from a defensive, reactionary mindset, I would
> > hope
> > to recognize it and apologize if I failed to check myself before
> > sending
> > it. That's independent from the fact that my emotional reactionary
> > writing might still be more respectful than most people's non-
> > emotional
> > postings.
> >
> >
> > On 2019-09-24 10:56 a.m., Adrienne G. Thompson wrote:
> > >    Gee 'Smee:
> > >    Things are getting a little out of hand. So now guys can't have
> > >    reasonable arguments with women without feeling like they're
> > > being
> > >    "combative"? Are you afraid someone might call you "sexist"?
> > >    I didn't see where you said anything objectionable or
> > > "combative".
> > >    Adrienne
> > >    On Tue, Sep 24, 2019 at 12:43 PM 'smee via libreplanet-discuss
> > >    <[1]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org> wrote:
> > >
> > >      I was combative in my language with Deb earlier and would like
> > > to
> > >      apologize and say I'll do better in the future.
> > >      I assumed bad intentions and acted out of irritation. I'll do
> > > better
> > >      in
> > >      the future to consider that there are real people with real
> > > concerns
> > >      and try not to be combative.
> > >      _______________________________________________
> > >      libreplanet-discuss mailing list
> > >      [2]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
> > >      [3]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-
> > > discus
> > >      s
> > >
> > >    --
> > >    Freedom - no pane, all gaiGN!
> > >    GNU C-Graph - [4]http://www.gnu.org/software/c-graph
> > >    Code Art Now - [5]http://codeartnow.com
> > >    Abertheid Campaign - [6]http://www.abertheid.info
> > >    Follow me on Twitter @AdrienneGT @GNUcgraph
> > >
> > > References
> > >
> > >    1. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
> > >    2. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
> > >    3. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-di
> > > scuss
> > >    4. http://www.gnu.org/software/c-graph
> > >    5. http://codeartnow.com/
> > >    6. http://www.abertheid.info/
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > libreplanet-discuss mailing list
> > > libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
> > > https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
> > >
> >
> >
>


-- 
Freedom - no pane, all gaiGN!

GNU C-Graph - http://www.gnu.org/software/c-graph
Code Art Now - http://codeartnow.com
Abertheid Campaign - http://www.abertheid.info
Follow me on Twitter @AdrienneGT @GNUcgraph

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   'Smee:

     I still think this campaign against RMS was coordinated (call me a
     conspiracy nut) and that they are accomplishing some of their goals
     right now.

   It was very well coordinated with the help of big money!

     Thanks Adrienne for sticking up for free speech.

   You're welcome 'Smee. Have a nice day!!
   Adrienne

     On Tue, 2019-09-24 at 11:08 -0700, Aaron Wolf wrote:
     > Adrienne, that's a valid concern. People shouldn't be walking on
     > eggshells. However, that's a misreading of the case here. This is
     > more
     > like 'Smee realizing on self-reflection that they actually *were*
     > making
     > assumptions and not being as considerate as they wish to be. I
     don't
     > think this apology was an insincere fear-based one but one in
     which
     > it's
     > a modeling of holding oneself to a high standard.
     >
     > Again, you're right in that we live in a context where
     *reasonable*
     > discourse gets grotesquely misrepresented and then people
     self-censor
     > out of fear. That is a totally valid problem, and we should not
     > accept
     > it as okay.
     >
     > At the same time, we should work to treat everyone with some
     > benefit-of-the-doubt and compassion. And there's nothing wrong
     with
     > apologizing for not living up to that standard, even if someone's
     > worst
     > was *still* better than many people's normal.
     >
     > If I write something from a defensive, reactionary mindset, I
     would
     > hope
     > to recognize it and apologize if I failed to check myself before
     > sending
     > it. That's independent from the fact that my emotional reactionary
     > writing might still be more respectful than most people's non-
     > emotional
     > postings.
     >
     >
     > On 2019-09-24 10:56 a.m., Adrienne G. Thompson wrote:
     > >    Gee 'Smee:
     > >    Things are getting a little out of hand. So now guys can't
     have
     > >    reasonable arguments with women without feeling like they're
     > > being
     > >    "combative"? Are you afraid someone might call you "sexist"?
     > >    I didn't see where you said anything objectionable or
     > > "combative".
     > >    Adrienne
     > >    On Tue, Sep 24, 2019 at 12:43 PM 'smee via
     libreplanet-discuss
     > >    <[1][1]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org> wrote:
     > >
     > >      I was combative in my language with Deb earlier and would
     like
     > > to
     > >      apologize and say I'll do better in the future.
     > >      I assumed bad intentions and acted out of irritation. I'll
     do
     > > better
     > >      in
     > >      the future to consider that there are real people with real
     > > concerns
     > >      and try not to be combative.
     > >      _______________________________________________
     > >      libreplanet-discuss mailing list
     > >      [2][2]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
     > >
     [3][3]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-
     > > discus
     > >      s
     > >
     > >    --
     > >    Freedom - no pane, all gaiGN!
     > >    GNU C-Graph - [4][4]http://www.gnu.org/software/c-graph
     > >    Code Art Now - [5][5]http://codeartnow.com
     > >    Abertheid Campaign - [6][6]http://www.abertheid.info
     > >    Follow me on Twitter @AdrienneGT @GNUcgraph
     > >
     > > References
     > >
     > >    1. mailto:[7]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
     > >    2. mailto:[8]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
     > >    3.
     [9]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-di
     > > scuss
     > >    4. [10]http://www.gnu.org/software/c-graph
     > >    5. [11]http://codeartnow.com/
     > >    6. [12]http://www.abertheid.info/
     > >
     > >
     > > _______________________________________________
     > > libreplanet-discuss mailing list
     > > [13]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
     > >
     [14]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discu
     ss
     > >
     >
     >

   --
   Freedom - no pane, all gaiGN!
   GNU C-Graph - [15]http://www.gnu.org/software/c-graph
   Code Art Now - [16]http://codeartnow.com
   Abertheid Campaign - [17]http://www.abertheid.info
   Follow me on Twitter @AdrienneGT @GNUcgraph

References

   1. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
   2. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
   3. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-
   4. http://www.gnu.org/software/c-graph
   5. http://codeartnow.com/
   6. http://www.abertheid.info/
   7. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
   8. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
   9. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-di
  10. http://www.gnu.org/software/c-graph
  11. http://codeartnow.com/
  12. http://www.abertheid.info/
  13. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
  14. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
  15. http://www.gnu.org/software/c-graph
  16. http://codeartnow.com/
  17. http://www.abertheid.info/

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_______________________________________________
libreplanet-discuss mailing list
libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss

  reply	other threads:[~2019-09-24 19:04 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 20+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2019-09-24 17:42 Apologies 'smee via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-24 17:56 ` Apologies Adrienne G. Thompson
2019-09-24 18:08   ` Apologies Aaron Wolf
2019-09-24 18:26     ` Apologies 'smee via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-24 19:03       ` Adrienne G. Thompson [this message]
2019-09-25 14:29       ` Apologies Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-25 14:36         ` Apologies 'smee via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-25 16:46           ` Apologies Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-25 16:51             ` Apologies Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-25 16:53               ` Apologies Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-25 20:21             ` Apologies Matt Ivie
2019-09-26  0:43             ` Apologies A. Mani
2019-09-26  0:49               ` Apologies Caleb Herbert
2019-09-26 13:17                 ` Apologies A. Mani
2019-09-26  8:59               ` Apologies Federico Leva (Nemo)
2019-09-26 14:02                 ` Apologies A. Mani
2019-09-26 15:53                   ` Apologies Federico Leva (Nemo)
2019-09-25 13:25 ` Apologies Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-25 13:28   ` Apologies Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss
2019-09-25 14:56     ` Apologies Deb Nicholson

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