* Re: Issues on GitHub, Issues on GitHub
2019-03-27 10:24 ` Issues on GitHub, " Dmitry Alexandrov
@ 2019-03-27 13:51 ` Michael McMahon
2019-03-28 1:24 ` bill-auger
2019-03-27 14:45 ` Aaron Wolf
2019-03-28 1:51 ` Cal
2 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Michael McMahon @ 2019-03-27 13:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: libreplanet-discuss
To join in the discussion about gitlab's librejs plan, you can find the
open ticket here: https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ce/issues/15621
Note: You will need to allow nonfree javascript to participate in
liberating gitlab's javascript.
Best,
Michael McMahon | Web Developer, Free Software Foundation
GPG Key: 4337 2794 C8AD D5CA 8FCF FA6C D037 59DA B600 E3C0
https://fsf.org | https://gnu.org
On 03/27/2019 06:24 AM, Dmitry Alexandrov wrote:
> bill-auger <bill-auger@peers.community> wrote:
>> On Wed, 27 Mar 2019 01:05:58 -0500 Cal wrote:
>>> GitHub requires proprietary software (JavaScript).
>> most of the github website is functional with librejs, including opening bug reports and commenting on existing ones
> Yes, it’s indeed much more freedom-friendly than, say, GitLab, which is is one of those wretched websites, that are not even _readable¹_ without running ad-hoc nonfree software, yet ironically widely believed to be a better alternative.
>
> However, GitHub still imposes nonfree software on you at the moment of registration. Due to its nature — it’s a CAPTCHA, that is it designed to be unavoidable, there hardly any solution exists.
>
> -
> ¹ GitLab is actually even more miserable in that respect, than something like https://code.gov, which honestly shows you faceplate, informing you, that its developers were unable to create a proper web-interface. GitLab, on the other hand, presents an _incomplete_ page without any notice, basically lying to an unaware visitor.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> libreplanet-discuss mailing list
> libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
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* Re: Issues on GitHub, Issues on GitHub
2019-03-27 10:24 ` Issues on GitHub, " Dmitry Alexandrov
2019-03-27 13:51 ` Michael McMahon
@ 2019-03-27 14:45 ` Aaron Wolf
2019-03-28 1:51 ` Cal
2 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Aaron Wolf @ 2019-03-27 14:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dmitry Alexandrov, bill-auger; +Cc: Cal, libreplanet-discuss
On 2019-03-27 3:24 a.m., Dmitry Alexandrov wrote:
> bill-auger <bill-auger@peers.community> wrote:
>> On Wed, 27 Mar 2019 01:05:58 -0500 Cal wrote:
>>> GitHub requires proprietary software (JavaScript).
>>
>> most of the github website is functional with librejs, including opening bug reports and commenting on existing ones
>
> Yes, it’s indeed much more freedom-friendly than, say, GitLab, which is is one of those wretched websites, that are not even _readable¹_ without running ad-hoc nonfree software, yet ironically widely believed to be a better alternative.
Dmitry, you seem to be conflating compatibility with LibreJS (in its
current state) and non-free software. LibreJS often has false flags.
100% of GitLab's client-side JavaScript is free software. It's believed
to be a better alternative because it actually is more free. The
"community edition" such as is run at https://git.framasoft.org/ is
completely 100% free software.
Last I checked, the only non-free issue with GitLab Community Edition is
its own use of CAPTCHA as discussed at
https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ce/issues/46548
Now, your complaints about GitLab failing to have a good fallback
without JavaScript — that's valid from a bad-web-design argument and I
happen to agree with you and really hate the heavy JavaScript web-app
style of modern websites.
The software-freedom related concern is that sites running all this
JavaScript, even when freely licensed, allows them to arbitrarily do a
lot of stuff people may not expect or want simply by visiting a website.
Thankfully, GitLab is something of an exception because they even
removed Google Analytics and other problematic things in direct response
to concerns from us in the free software movement.
https://about.gitlab.com/2015/05/20/gitlab-gitorious-free-software/
Anyway, keep in mind that LibreJS failing to *recognize* something as
free software does not mean the software is non-free. It may just mean
that LibreJS and the website aren't set up correctly to validate the
software's terms.
>
> However, GitHub still imposes nonfree software on you at the moment of registration. Due to its nature — it’s a CAPTCHA, that is it designed to be unavoidable, there hardly any solution exists.
>
> -
> ¹ GitLab is actually even more miserable in that respect, than something like https://code.gov, which honestly shows you faceplate, informing you, that its developers were unable to create a proper web-interface. GitLab, on the other hand, presents an _incomplete_ page without any notice, basically lying to an unaware visitor.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> libreplanet-discuss mailing list
> libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
> https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
>
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Issues on GitHub, Issues on GitHub
2019-03-27 10:24 ` Issues on GitHub, " Dmitry Alexandrov
2019-03-27 13:51 ` Michael McMahon
2019-03-27 14:45 ` Aaron Wolf
@ 2019-03-28 1:51 ` Cal
2019-03-28 3:14 ` bill-auger
2019-03-28 12:52 ` Leah Rowe
2 siblings, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Cal @ 2019-03-28 1:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: libreplanet-discuss
On 3/27/19 5:24 AM, Dmitry Alexandrov wrote:
> bill-auger <bill-auger@peers.community> wrote:
>> On Wed, 27 Mar 2019 01:05:58 -0500 Cal wrote:
>>> GitHub requires proprietary software (JavaScript).
>>
>> most of the github website is functional with librejs, including opening bug reports and commenting on existing ones
>
> Yes, it’s indeed much more freedom-friendly than, say, GitLab, which is is one of those wretched websites, that are not even _readable¹_ without running ad-hoc nonfree software, yet ironically widely believed to be a better alternative.
I'll believe you when Trisquel stops using it.
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* Re: Issues on GitHub, Issues on GitHub
2019-03-28 1:51 ` Cal
@ 2019-03-28 3:14 ` bill-auger
2019-03-28 4:06 ` Aaron Wolf
2019-03-28 12:52 ` Leah Rowe
1 sibling, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: bill-auger @ 2019-03-28 3:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: libreplanet-discuss
On Wed, 27 Mar 2019 20:51:55 -0500 Cal wrote:
> I'll believe you when Trisquel stops using it.
FWIW, trisquel started using gitlab many years ago, when it was not
nearly as libre-friendly as it is today, so you really can not credit
it for that reason - it was also before pagure existed - i think if
that decision had to be made again today, that gitlab is not the
best choice for software freedom concerns - if any of the
full-featured, self-hosted web forges should be encouraged above
others, pagure (GPLv2+) and coding-team (AGPL) appear to have the most
libre-conscious developers, and most of their sites' functionality works
with javascript completely disabled (good engineering, yes Aaron?)
however, i would not expect to see trisquel or any gitlab users change
any time soon, mostly because it is very difficult to get your data out
of those forges - almost all of them have an inherent "vendor lock-in"
effect - pagure is the only one that makes complete migrations simple,
which is the best reason to favor it IMHO
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* Re: Issues on GitHub, Issues on GitHub
2019-03-28 3:14 ` bill-auger
@ 2019-03-28 4:06 ` Aaron Wolf
0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Aaron Wolf @ 2019-03-28 4:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: bill-auger, libreplanet-discuss
FWIW, in addition to
https://www.gnu.org/software/repo-criteria-evaluation.html which are
outdated somewhat and don't cover much, I've tried to keep updating this
list:
https://wiki.snowdrift.coop/market-research/flo-repos
I've only had substantial time myself with GitHub, GitLab, SourceForge,
and Gitorious (long defunct). My personal sense is that GitHub and
GitLab each have pros and cons in terms of features but GitLab is
somewhat more aligned with software freedom but both are imperfect.
SourceForge is usable and acceptable enough, but I dislike their
ad-focus (note that it is not the awful stuff that the previous owners
did though).
I've heard good things about Phabricator (used by Wikimedia among others).
SourceHut is the one I'm most excited about that looks to be an effort
to make a truly updated, good engineering (not JavaScript crap), and
fully-free. It's early state for the project, but it's the one I'm
cheering the most and want to see really succeed. I haven't actually
used it myself yet.
On 2019-03-27 8:14 p.m., bill-auger wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Mar 2019 20:51:55 -0500 Cal wrote:
>> I'll believe you when Trisquel stops using it.
>
> FWIW, trisquel started using gitlab many years ago, when it was not
> nearly as libre-friendly as it is today, so you really can not credit
> it for that reason - it was also before pagure existed - i think if
> that decision had to be made again today, that gitlab is not the
> best choice for software freedom concerns - if any of the
> full-featured, self-hosted web forges should be encouraged above
> others, pagure (GPLv2+) and coding-team (AGPL) appear to have the most
> libre-conscious developers, and most of their sites' functionality works
> with javascript completely disabled (good engineering, yes Aaron?)
>
> however, i would not expect to see trisquel or any gitlab users change
> any time soon, mostly because it is very difficult to get your data out
> of those forges - almost all of them have an inherent "vendor lock-in"
> effect - pagure is the only one that makes complete migrations simple,
> which is the best reason to favor it IMHO
>
> _______________________________________________
> libreplanet-discuss mailing list
> libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
> https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
>
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* Re: Issues on GitHub, Issues on GitHub
2019-03-28 1:51 ` Cal
2019-03-28 3:14 ` bill-auger
@ 2019-03-28 12:52 ` Leah Rowe
1 sibling, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Leah Rowe @ 2019-03-28 12:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Cal, libreplanet-discuss
Hi
On 28/03/2019 01:51, Cal wrote:
>
>
> On 3/27/19 5:24 AM, Dmitry Alexandrov wrote:
>> bill-auger <bill-auger@peers.community> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 27 Mar 2019 01:05:58 -0500 Cal wrote:
>>>> GitHub requires proprietary software (JavaScript).
>>>
>>> most of the github website is functional with librejs, including opening bug reports and commenting on existing ones
>>
>> Yes, it’s indeed much more freedom-friendly than, say, GitLab, which is is one of those wretched websites, that are not even _readable¹_ without running ad-hoc nonfree software, yet ironically widely believed to be a better alternative.
>
> I'll believe you when Trisquel stops using it.
Just letting everyone know, GitLab CE is indeed free software. I'm
currently setting it up for libreboot.org even (have to get gogs->gitlab
migration working before making the gitlab site public)
several other well-known projects (including the GNOME project, and
debian project) use it too.
It's the enterprise edition that's non-free. the community edition is free
--
Leah Rowe
Libreboot developer and project founder.
Use free software. Free as in freedom.
https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html
Use a free BIOS - https://libreboot.org/
Use a free operating system, GNU+Linux.
Support computer user freedom
https://sfconservancy.org/
https://fsf.org/ - https://gnu.org/
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