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From: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
To: Joey Hess <id@joeyh.name>
Cc: Git Mailing List <git@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: SHA1 collisions found
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2017 09:19:06 -0800
Message-ID: <CA+55aFxJGDpJXqpcoPnwvzcn_fB-zaggj=w7P2At-TOt4buOqw@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20170223164306.spg2avxzukkggrpb@kitenet.net>

On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 8:43 AM, Joey Hess <id@joeyh.name> wrote:
>
> IIRC someone has been working on parameterizing git's SHA1 assumptions
> so a repository could eventually use a more secure hash. How far has
> that gotten? There are still many "40" constants in git.git HEAD.

I don't think you'd necessarily want to change the size of the hash.
You can use a different hash and just use the same 160 bits from it.

> Since we now have collisions in valid PDF files, collisions in valid git
> commit and tree objects are probably able to be constructed.

I haven't seen the attack yet, but git doesn't actually just hash the
data, it does prepend a type/length field to it. That usually tends to
make collision attacks much harder, because you either have to make
the resulting size the same too, or you have to be able to also edit
the size field in the header.

pdf's don't have that issue, they have a fixed header and you can
fairly arbitrarily add silent data to the middle that just doesn't get
shown.

So pdf's make for a much better attack vector, exactly because they
are a fairly opaque data format. Git has opaque data in some places
(we hide things in commit objects intentionally, for example, but by
definition that opaque data is fairly secondary.

Put another way: I doubt the sky is falling for git as a source
control management tool. Do we want to migrate to another hash? Yes.
Is it "game over" for SHA1 like people want to say? Probably not.

I haven't seen the attack details, but I bet

 (a) the fact that we have a separate size encoding makes it much
harder to do on git objects in the first place

 (b) we can probably easily add some extra sanity checks to the opaque
data we do have, to make it much harder to do the hiding of random
data that these attacks pretty much always depend on.

                Linus

  parent reply index

Thread overview: 136+ messages in thread (expand / mbox.gz / Atom feed / [top])
2017-02-23 16:43 Joey Hess
2017-02-23 17:00 ` David Lang
2017-02-23 17:02 ` Junio C Hamano
2017-02-23 17:12   ` David Lang
2017-02-23 20:49     ` Jakub Narębski
2017-02-23 20:57       ` Jeff King
2017-02-23 17:18   ` Junio C Hamano
2017-02-23 17:35   ` Joey Hess
2017-02-23 17:52     ` Linus Torvalds
2017-02-23 18:21       ` Joey Hess
2017-02-23 18:31         ` Joey Hess
2017-02-23 19:13           ` Morten Welinder
2017-02-24 15:52             ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2017-02-23 18:40         ` Linus Torvalds
2017-02-23 18:46           ` Jeff King
2017-02-23 19:09             ` Linus Torvalds
2017-02-23 19:32               ` Jeff King
2017-02-23 19:47                 ` Linus Torvalds
2017-02-23 19:57                   ` Jeff King
     [not found]                     ` <alpine.LFD.2.20.1702231428540.30435@i7.lan>
2017-02-23 22:43                       ` Jeff King
2017-02-23 22:50                         ` Linus Torvalds
2017-02-23 23:05                         ` Jeff King
2017-02-23 23:05                           ` [PATCH 1/3] add collision-detecting sha1 implementation Jeff King
2017-02-23 23:15                             ` Stefan Beller
2017-02-24  0:01                               ` Jeff King
2017-02-24  0:12                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2017-02-24  0:16                                   ` Jeff King
2017-02-23 23:05                           ` [PATCH 2/3] sha1dc: adjust header includes for git Jeff King
2017-02-23 23:06                           ` [PATCH 3/3] Makefile: add USE_SHA1DC knob Jeff King
2017-02-24 18:36                             ` HW42
2017-02-24 18:57                               ` Jeff King
2017-02-23 23:14                           ` SHA1 collisions found Linus Torvalds
2017-02-28 18:41                           ` Junio C Hamano
2017-02-28 19:07                             ` Junio C Hamano
2017-02-28 19:20                               ` Jeff King
2017-03-01  8:57                                 ` Dan Shumow
2017-02-28 19:34                               ` Linus Torvalds
2017-02-28 19:52                                 ` Shawn Pearce
2017-02-28 22:56                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2017-02-28 21:22                                 ` Dan Shumow
2017-02-28 22:50                                   ` Marc Stevens
2017-02-28 23:11                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2017-03-01 19:05                                       ` Jeff King
2017-02-23 20:47               ` Øyvind A. Holm
2017-02-23 20:46             ` Joey Hess
2017-02-23 18:42         ` Jeff King
2017-02-23 17:52     ` David Lang
2017-02-23 19:20   ` David Lang
2017-02-23 17:19 ` Linus Torvalds [this message]
2017-02-23 17:29   ` Linus Torvalds
2017-02-23 18:10   ` Joey Hess
2017-02-23 18:29     ` Linus Torvalds
2017-02-23 18:38     ` Junio C Hamano
2017-02-24  9:42 ` Duy Nguyen
2017-02-25 19:04   ` brian m. carlson
2017-02-27 13:29     ` René Scharfe
2017-02-28 13:25       ` brian m. carlson
2017-02-24 15:13 ` Ian Jackson
2017-02-24 17:04   ` ankostis
2017-02-24 17:23   ` Jason Cooper
2017-02-25 23:22     ` ankostis
2017-02-24 17:32   ` Junio C Hamano
2017-02-24 17:45     ` David Lang
2017-02-24 18:14       ` Junio C Hamano
2017-02-24 18:58         ` Stefan Beller
2017-02-24 19:20           ` Junio C Hamano
2017-02-24 20:05             ` ankostis
2017-02-24 20:32               ` Junio C Hamano
2017-02-25  0:31                 ` ankostis
2017-02-26  0:16                   ` Jason Cooper
2017-02-26 17:38                     ` brian m. carlson
2017-02-26 19:11                       ` Linus Torvalds
2017-02-26 21:38                         ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2017-02-26 21:52                           ` Jeff King
2017-02-27 13:00                             ` Transition plan for git to move to a new hash function Ian Jackson
2017-02-27 14:37                               ` Why BLAKE2? Markus Trippelsdorf
2017-02-27 15:42                                 ` Ian Jackson
2017-02-27 19:26                               ` Transition plan for git to move to a new hash function Tony Finch
2017-02-28 21:47                               ` brian m. carlson
2017-03-02 18:13                                 ` Ian Jackson
2017-03-04 22:49                                   ` brian m. carlson
2017-03-05 13:45                                     ` Ian Jackson
2017-03-05 23:45                                       ` brian m. carlson
2017-02-24 20:05             ` SHA1 collisions found Junio C Hamano
2017-02-24 20:33           ` Philip Oakley
2017-02-24 23:39     ` Jeff King
2017-02-25  0:39       ` Linus Torvalds
2017-02-25  0:54         ` Linus Torvalds
2017-02-25  1:16         ` Jeff King
2017-02-26 18:55           ` Junio C Hamano
2017-02-25  6:10         ` Junio C Hamano
2017-02-26  1:13           ` Jason Cooper
2017-02-26  5:18             ` Jeff King
2017-02-26 18:30               ` brian m. carlson
2017-03-02 21:46               ` Brandon Williams
2017-03-03 11:13                 ` Jeff King
2017-03-03 14:54                   ` Ian Jackson
2017-03-03 22:18                     ` Jeff King
2017-03-02 19:55         ` Linus Torvalds
2017-03-02 20:43           ` Junio C Hamano
2017-03-02 21:21             ` Linus Torvalds
2017-03-02 21:54               ` Joey Hess
2017-03-02 22:27                 ` Linus Torvalds
2017-03-03  1:50                   ` Mike Hommey
2017-03-03  2:19                     ` Linus Torvalds
2017-03-03 11:04           ` Jeff King
2017-03-03 21:47           ` Stefan Beller
2017-02-25  1:00       ` David Lang
2017-02-25  1:15         ` Stefan Beller
2017-02-25  1:21         ` Jeff King
2017-02-25  1:39           ` David Lang
2017-02-25  1:47             ` Jeff King
2017-02-25  1:56               ` David Lang
2017-02-25  2:28             ` Jacob Keller
2017-02-25  2:26           ` Jacob Keller
2017-02-25  5:39             ` grarpamp
2017-02-24 23:43     ` Ian Jackson
2017-02-25  0:06       ` Ian Jackson
2017-02-25 18:50     ` brian m. carlson
2017-02-25 19:26       ` Jeff King
2017-02-25 22:09         ` Mike Hommey
2017-02-26 17:38           ` brian m. carlson
2017-02-24 22:47 ` Jakub Narębski
2017-02-24 22:53   ` Santiago Torres
2017-02-24 23:05     ` Jakub Narębski
2017-02-24 23:24       ` Øyvind A. Holm
2017-02-24 23:06   ` Jeff King
2017-02-24 23:35     ` Jakub Narębski
2017-02-25 22:35     ` Lars Schneider
2017-02-26  0:46       ` Jeff King
2017-02-26 18:22         ` Junio C Hamano
2017-02-26 18:57     ` Thomas Braun
2017-02-26 21:30       ` Jeff King
2017-02-27  9:57         ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2017-02-27 10:43           ` Jeff King
2017-02-27 12:39             ` Morten Welinder

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