[ruby-core:92067] [Ruby trunk Feature#15741] Ordinal parameters

[ruby-core:92067] [Ruby trunk Feature#15741] Ordinal parameters

[mame]

Issue #15741 has been reported by mame (Yusuke Endoh).

----------------------------------------
Feature #15741: Ordinal parameters
https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/15741

* Author: mame (Yusuke Endoh)
* Status: Open
* Priority: Normal
* Assignee: 
* Target version: Next Major
----------------------------------------
Numbered parameters have been introduced into trunk, and are still being hotly debated in #15723.

One of the problems of the feature is, too short, too symbolic, and then too cryptic.  It resembles Perl.

I counterpropose "ordinal parameters":

```
$ ./miniruby -e '
[ [1, 1, 1], [2, 2, 2], [3, 3, 3] ].each { p 0th * 1st * 2rd }
'
1
8
27
```

Ordinal parameters are much better than numbered parameters in two points:

* It is English.  No symbol is used.  It looks nicer, doesn't it?
* Some people are complaining that `@1` is one-based.  Instead, my proposal is zero-based: it starts with `0th`.

In other words, it no longer resembles the notorious `$1` at all.

You may wonder if it is too friendly for English speakers.  Don't worry, it is carefully designed:

* It is tolerant of small errors.  In fact, "2rd" (not "2nd") is allowed.  This is because I often typo.
* Even "1th", "2th", and "3th" are allowed.  Non-English-native programmers don't have to learn the difference among "st", "nd", "rd", and "th".

A patch is attached.

---Files--------------------------------
ordinal-parameters.patch (1.62 KB)


-- 
https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/

[ruby-core:92069] [Ruby trunk Feature#15741] Ordinal parameters

[sawadatsuyoshi]

Issue #15741 has been updated by sawa (Tsuyoshi Sawada).


I do not think that 1-based is a problem at all. As some have already noticed in a different thread, regex captures are 1-based, and no one has complained about it. I think it is more natural to have it 1-based.

----------------------------------------
Feature #15741: Ordinal parameters
https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/15741#change-77393

* Author: mame (Yusuke Endoh)
* Status: Open
* Priority: Normal
* Assignee: 
* Target version: Next Major
----------------------------------------
Numbered parameters have been introduced into trunk, and are still being hotly debated in #15723.

One of the problems of the feature is, too short, too symbolic, and then too cryptic.  It resembles Perl.

I counterpropose "ordinal parameters":

```
$ ./miniruby -e '
[ [1, 1, 1], [2, 2, 2], [3, 3, 3] ].each { p 0th * 1st * 2rd }
'
1
8
27
```

Ordinal parameters are much better than numbered parameters in two points:

* It is English.  No symbol is used.  It looks nicer, doesn't it?
* Some people are complaining that `@1` is one-based.  Instead, my proposal is zero-based: it starts with `0th`.

In other words, it no longer resembles the notorious `$1` at all.

You may wonder if it is too friendly for English speakers.  Don't worry, it is carefully designed:

* It is tolerant of small errors.  In fact, "2rd" (not "2nd") is allowed.  This is because I often typo.
* Even "1th", "2th", and "3th" are allowed.  Non-English-native programmers don't have to learn the difference among "st", "nd", "rd", and "th".

A patch is attached.

---Files--------------------------------
ordinal-parameters.patch (1.62 KB)


-- 
https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/

[ruby-core:92084] [Ruby trunk Feature#15741] Ordinal parameters

[shevegen]

Issue #15741 has been updated by shevegen (Robert A. Heiler).


Check the date sawa. :)

The thing is, though ... if we ignore the date (and I guess nobu is having fun
since it may seem less obvious if mame creates the issue ;) ) ... actually I did
want to propose adding .second .third and so forth, since we have .first and .last
already.

The reason why was mostly for code like this:

    some_array = [] # it gets filled with stuff

    person_name   = some_array.first
    person_height = some_array[1]
    person_age    = some_array.last

Now for the moment let's ignore that a Hash would be better for this,
it is just meant for illustration purpose. My argument would be that
[1] looks strange when I already use .first and .last, so I wanted
to use .second instead.

However had ... my use case is not that good nonetheless. It's just
mostly a visual thing ... when I use [0], [1], [2] then this looks
fine; and when I use .first and .last this looks fine too. It only
looked strange when I would mix both.

Another problem was that, for example, how often would people use
something like .fifth? Or .sixth? Probably not that often. So I 
sort of abandoned that ideal for a proposal.

I did, however had, also want to suggest another one on this first
april, aka to suggest a compiled variant of ruby. And while 95% of
this would have been meant as a joke, 5% would have been serious.

I twould not have to be ruby exactly, but just a compiled language,
a bit like the ruby-crystal situation (but matz would design it;
but no worries, even in my joke suggestion, I would not suggest 
that matz would IMPLEMENT it - it was only meant for the design
stage). And probably a full alternative to C too. One reason here
was that many casual or less formal users do not know C yet the
really cool things all seem to happen in/through C.

----------------------------------------
Feature #15741: Ordinal parameters
https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/15741#change-77415

* Author: mame (Yusuke Endoh)
* Status: Open
* Priority: Normal
* Assignee: 
* Target version: Next Major
----------------------------------------
Numbered parameters have been introduced into trunk, and are still being hotly debated in #15723.

One of the problems of the feature is, too short, too symbolic, and then too cryptic.  It resembles Perl.

I counterpropose "ordinal parameters":

```
$ ./miniruby -e '
[ [1, 1, 1], [2, 2, 2], [3, 3, 3] ].each { p 0th * 1st * 2rd }
'
1
8
27
```

Ordinal parameters are much better than numbered parameters in two points:

* It is English.  No symbol is used.  It looks nicer, doesn't it?
* Some people are complaining that `@1` is one-based.  Instead, my proposal is zero-based: it starts with `0th`.

In other words, it no longer resembles the notorious `$1` at all.

You may wonder if it is too friendly for English speakers.  Don't worry, it is carefully designed:

* It is tolerant of small errors.  In fact, "2rd" (not "2nd") is allowed.  This is because I often typo.
* Even "1th", "2th", and "3th" are allowed.  Non-English-native programmers don't have to learn the difference among "st", "nd", "rd", and "th".

A patch is attached.

---Files--------------------------------
ordinal-parameters.patch (1.62 KB)


-- 
https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/

[ruby-core:92085] [Ruby trunk Feature#15741] Ordinal parameters

[sawadatsuyoshi]

Issue #15741 has been updated by sawa (Tsuyoshi Sawada).


shevegen (Robert A. Heiler) wrote:
> Check the date sawa. :)

I see. Honestly, I have never felt this kind of stuff to be funny.

----------------------------------------
Feature #15741: Ordinal parameters
https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/15741#change-77416

* Author: mame (Yusuke Endoh)
* Status: Open
* Priority: Normal
* Assignee: 
* Target version: Next Major
----------------------------------------
Numbered parameters have been introduced into trunk, and are still being hotly debated in #15723.

One of the problems of the feature is, too short, too symbolic, and then too cryptic.  It resembles Perl.

I counterpropose "ordinal parameters":

```
$ ./miniruby -e '
[ [1, 1, 1], [2, 2, 2], [3, 3, 3] ].each { p 0th * 1st * 2rd }
'
1
8
27
```

Ordinal parameters are much better than numbered parameters in two points:

* It is English.  No symbol is used.  It looks nicer, doesn't it?
* Some people are complaining that `@1` is one-based.  Instead, my proposal is zero-based: it starts with `0th`.

In other words, it no longer resembles the notorious `$1` at all.

You may wonder if it is too friendly for English speakers.  Don't worry, it is carefully designed:

* It is tolerant of small errors.  In fact, "2rd" (not "2nd") is allowed.  This is because I often typo.
* Even "1th", "2th", and "3th" are allowed.  Non-English-native programmers don't have to learn the difference among "st", "nd", "rd", and "th".

A patch is attached.

---Files--------------------------------
ordinal-parameters.patch (1.62 KB)


-- 
https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/

[ruby-core:92315] [Ruby trunk Feature#15741] Ordinal parameters

[samuel]

Issue #15741 has been updated by ioquatix (Samuel Williams).


You make localisation a problem of the language syntax. For example, in the original code: `2rd` is actually not correct, it should be `2nd`. Other localisations are even more complicated, e.g. Russian.

----------------------------------------
Feature #15741: Ordinal parameters
https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/15741#change-77659

* Author: mame (Yusuke Endoh)
* Status: Open
* Priority: Normal
* Assignee: 
* Target version: Next Major
----------------------------------------
Numbered parameters have been introduced into trunk, and are still being hotly debated in #15723.

One of the problems of the feature is, too short, too symbolic, and then too cryptic.  It resembles Perl.

I counterpropose "ordinal parameters":

```
$ ./miniruby -e '
[ [1, 1, 1], [2, 2, 2], [3, 3, 3] ].each { p 0th * 1st * 2rd }
'
1
8
27
```

Ordinal parameters are much better than numbered parameters in two points:

* It is English.  No symbol is used.  It looks nicer, doesn't it?
* Some people are complaining that `@1` is one-based.  Instead, my proposal is zero-based: it starts with `0th`.

In other words, it no longer resembles the notorious `$1` at all.

You may wonder if it is too friendly for English speakers.  Don't worry, it is carefully designed:

* It is tolerant of small errors.  In fact, "2rd" (not "2nd") is allowed.  This is because I often typo.
* Even "1th", "2th", and "3th" are allowed.  Non-English-native programmers don't have to learn the difference among "st", "nd", "rd", and "th".

A patch is attached.

---Files--------------------------------
ordinal-parameters.patch (1.62 KB)


-- 
https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/

[ruby-core:92322] [Ruby trunk Feature#15741] Ordinal parameters

[eregontp]

Issue #15741 has been updated by Eregon (Benoit Daloze).

Assignee set to joke

----------------------------------------
Feature #15741: Ordinal parameters
https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/15741#change-77664

* Author: mame (Yusuke Endoh)
* Status: Open
* Priority: Normal
* Assignee: joke
* Target version: Next Major
----------------------------------------
Numbered parameters have been introduced into trunk, and are still being hotly debated in #15723.

One of the problems of the feature is, too short, too symbolic, and then too cryptic.  It resembles Perl.

I counterpropose "ordinal parameters":

```
$ ./miniruby -e '
[ [1, 1, 1], [2, 2, 2], [3, 3, 3] ].each { p 0th * 1st * 2rd }
'
1
8
27
```

Ordinal parameters are much better than numbered parameters in two points:

* It is English.  No symbol is used.  It looks nicer, doesn't it?
* Some people are complaining that `@1` is one-based.  Instead, my proposal is zero-based: it starts with `0th`.

In other words, it no longer resembles the notorious `$1` at all.

You may wonder if it is too friendly for English speakers.  Don't worry, it is carefully designed:

* It is tolerant of small errors.  In fact, "2rd" (not "2nd") is allowed.  This is because I often typo.
* Even "1th", "2th", and "3th" are allowed.  Non-English-native programmers don't have to learn the difference among "st", "nd", "rd", and "th".

A patch is attached.

---Files--------------------------------
ordinal-parameters.patch (1.62 KB)


-- 
https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/

[ruby-core:92329] [Ruby trunk Feature#15741] Ordinal parameters

[mame]

Issue #15741 has been updated by mame (Yusuke Endoh).

Status changed from Open to Rejected

I forgot to close this ticket.  Thanks.

----------------------------------------
Feature #15741: Ordinal parameters
https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/15741#change-77671

* Author: mame (Yusuke Endoh)
* Status: Rejected
* Priority: Normal
* Assignee: joke
* Target version: Next Major
----------------------------------------
Numbered parameters have been introduced into trunk, and are still being hotly debated in #15723.

One of the problems of the feature is, too short, too symbolic, and then too cryptic.  It resembles Perl.

I counterpropose "ordinal parameters":

```
$ ./miniruby -e '
[ [1, 1, 1], [2, 2, 2], [3, 3, 3] ].each { p 0th * 1st * 2rd }
'
1
8
27
```

Ordinal parameters are much better than numbered parameters in two points:

* It is English.  No symbol is used.  It looks nicer, doesn't it?
* Some people are complaining that `@1` is one-based.  Instead, my proposal is zero-based: it starts with `0th`.

In other words, it no longer resembles the notorious `$1` at all.

You may wonder if it is too friendly for English speakers.  Don't worry, it is carefully designed:

* It is tolerant of small errors.  In fact, "2rd" (not "2nd") is allowed.  This is because I often typo.
* Even "1th", "2th", and "3th" are allowed.  Non-English-native programmers don't have to learn the difference among "st", "nd", "rd", and "th".

A patch is attached.

---Files--------------------------------
ordinal-parameters.patch (1.62 KB)


-- 
https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/