[ruby-core:85749] [Ruby trunk Bug#14541] Class variables have broken semantics, let's fix them

[ruby-core:85749] [Ruby trunk Bug#14541] Class variables have broken semantics, let's fix them

[eregontp]

Issue #14541 has been reported by Eregon (Benoit Daloze).

----------------------------------------
Bug #14541: Class variables have broken semantics, let's fix them
https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/14541

* Author: Eregon (Benoit Daloze)
* Status: Open
* Priority: Normal
* Assignee: 
* Target version: 
* ruby -v: ruby 2.6.0dev (2018-01-29 trunk 62091) [x86_64-linux]
* Backport: 2.3: UNKNOWN, 2.4: UNKNOWN, 2.5: UNKNOWN
----------------------------------------
Class variables have the weird semantics of being tied to the class hierarchy and being inherited between classes.
I think this is counter-intuitive, dangerous and basically nobody expects this behavior.

To illustrate that, we can break the tmpdir stdlib by defining a top-level class variable:

    $ ruby -rtmpdir -e '$SAFE=1; @@systmpdir=42; p Dir.mktmpdir {}'
    -e:1: warning: class variable access from toplevel
    Traceback (most recent call last):
    	3: from -e:1:in `<main>'
    	2: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/tmpdir.rb:86:in `mktmpdir'
    	1: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/tmpdir.rb:125:in `create'
    /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/tmpdir.rb:125:in `join': no implicit conversion of Integer into String (TypeError)

Or even simpler in RubyGems:

    $ ruby -e '@@all=42; p Gem.ruby_version'
    -e:1: warning: class variable access from toplevel
    Traceback (most recent call last):
    	3: from -e:1:in `<main>'
    	2: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/rubygems.rb:984:in `ruby_version'
    	1: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/rubygems/version.rb:199:in `new'
    /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/rubygems/version.rb:199:in `[]': no implicit conversion of String into Integer (TypeError)

So defining a class variable on Object removes class variables in all classes inheriting from Object.
Maybe @@systmpdir is not so prone to conflict, but how about @@identifier, @@context, @@locales, @@sequence, @@all, etc which are class variables of the standard library?

Moreover, class variables are extremely complex to implement correctly and very difficult to optimize due to the complex semantics.
In fact, none of JRuby, TruffleRuby, Rubinius and MRuby implement the "setting a class var on Object removes class vars in subclasses".
It seems all implementations but MRI print :foo twice here (instead of :foo :toplevel for MRI):

~~~ ruby
class Foo
  @@cvar = :foo
  def self.read
    @@cvar
  end
end

p Foo.read
@@cvar = :toplevel
p Foo.read
~~~


Is there any library actually taking advantage that class variables are inherited between classes? I would guess not or very few.
Therefore, I propose to give class variable intuitive semantics: no inheritance, they behave just like variables of that specific class, much like class-level instance variables (but separate for compatibility).

Another option is to remove them completely, but that's likely too hard for compatibility.

Thoughts?



-- 
https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/

[ruby-core:85750] [Ruby trunk Bug#14541] Class variables have broken semantics, let's fix them

[eregontp]

Issue #14541 has been updated by Eregon (Benoit Daloze).


To clarify, "setting a class var on Object removes class vars in subclasses" means:

Setting a class variable in some class removes class variables *of the same name* in all descendant classes of that class.

----------------------------------------
Bug #14541: Class variables have broken semantics, let's fix them
https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/14541#change-70590

* Author: Eregon (Benoit Daloze)
* Status: Open
* Priority: Normal
* Assignee: 
* Target version: 
* ruby -v: ruby 2.6.0dev (2018-01-29 trunk 62091) [x86_64-linux]
* Backport: 2.3: UNKNOWN, 2.4: UNKNOWN, 2.5: UNKNOWN
----------------------------------------
Class variables have the weird semantics of being tied to the class hierarchy and being inherited between classes.
I think this is counter-intuitive, dangerous and basically nobody expects this behavior.

To illustrate that, we can break the tmpdir stdlib by defining a top-level class variable:

    $ ruby -rtmpdir -e '$SAFE=1; @@systmpdir=42; p Dir.mktmpdir {}'
    -e:1: warning: class variable access from toplevel
    Traceback (most recent call last):
    	3: from -e:1:in `<main>'
    	2: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/tmpdir.rb:86:in `mktmpdir'
    	1: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/tmpdir.rb:125:in `create'
    /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/tmpdir.rb:125:in `join': no implicit conversion of Integer into String (TypeError)

Or even simpler in RubyGems:

    $ ruby -e '@@all=42; p Gem.ruby_version'
    -e:1: warning: class variable access from toplevel
    Traceback (most recent call last):
    	3: from -e:1:in `<main>'
    	2: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/rubygems.rb:984:in `ruby_version'
    	1: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/rubygems/version.rb:199:in `new'
    /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/rubygems/version.rb:199:in `[]': no implicit conversion of String into Integer (TypeError)

So defining a class variable on Object removes class variables in all classes inheriting from Object.
Maybe @@systmpdir is not so prone to conflict, but how about @@identifier, @@context, @@locales, @@sequence, @@all, etc which are class variables of the standard library?

Moreover, class variables are extremely complex to implement correctly and very difficult to optimize due to the complex semantics.
In fact, none of JRuby, TruffleRuby, Rubinius and MRuby implement the "setting a class var on Object removes class vars in subclasses".
It seems all implementations but MRI print :foo twice here (instead of :foo :toplevel for MRI):

~~~ ruby
class Foo
  @@cvar = :foo
  def self.read
    @@cvar
  end
end

p Foo.read
@@cvar = :toplevel
p Foo.read
~~~


Is there any library actually taking advantage that class variables are inherited between classes? I would guess not or very few.
Therefore, I propose to give class variable intuitive semantics: no inheritance, they behave just like variables of that specific class, much like class-level instance variables (but separate for compatibility).

Another option is to remove them completely, but that's likely too hard for compatibility.

Thoughts?



-- 
https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/

[ruby-core:85753] [Ruby trunk Bug#14541] Class variables have broken semantics, let's fix them

[shevegen]

Issue #14541 has been updated by shevegen (Robert A. Heiler).


I'd rather just remove them altogether. :P

However had, since I myself do not use them anyway, it is not really
important to me whether they are there or not - I only use a subset
of ruby which I like. I mostly store stuff that should be available
in a project in the main "namespace", such as module Foobar; end and
using accessors on "Foobar"; and "module-level instance variables"
as I call them, like "module Foobar; @use_colours = true; end".

> Moreover, class variables are extremely complex to implement correctly

Another reason to remove them. ;)

> Is there any library actually taking advantage that class variables
> are inherited between classes? I would guess not or very few.

I think that class variables are not really used that much. I have
not done any analysis but my intuition tells me that most of the
highly used and popular gems available on rubygems.org do not use
them. Again, that is a statement not based on any statistics at all,
but I agree with your comment - I say none of the gems in the top
20 make use of @@variables. I'd even say that IF there were any use,
you could easily write code to NOT require them, too.

> Another option is to remove them completely, but that's likely
> too hard for compatibility.

Oops, I just read your comment here. So you suggest removing too.

I agree with it as well. :)

Compatibility is important but ruby 3.x may make changes to code.
I think matz said so in one of the presentations, so removing
class variables would be a possibility for 3.x.

I do not know whether matz wants to remove them or not. But 
perhaps it could be mentioned in the next ruby developer
meeting.

I think there may be quite many ruby hackers who would not have
any problem if @@class variables would be removed. Since I do
not have any of them in my code, removing class variables would
not impact me at all whatsoever. :)

I think perhaps it would be good to hear:

a) other ruby hackers who used ruby a lot, what they have to say
about @@class variables

and, perhaps even more importantly,

b) anyone who may still, for one reason or the other, use @@class
variables and how easy it may be for them to transition (I guess
it would be very simple because you can do everything without
class variables too, I think, in pure ruby, right? You only need
to be able to catch the event whenever a ruby object is instantiated
and I think that can be done via one of the hooks).


----------------------------------------
Bug #14541: Class variables have broken semantics, let's fix them
https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/14541#change-70594

* Author: Eregon (Benoit Daloze)
* Status: Open
* Priority: Normal
* Assignee: 
* Target version: 
* ruby -v: ruby 2.6.0dev (2018-01-29 trunk 62091) [x86_64-linux]
* Backport: 2.3: UNKNOWN, 2.4: UNKNOWN, 2.5: UNKNOWN
----------------------------------------
Class variables have the weird semantics of being tied to the class hierarchy and being inherited between classes.
I think this is counter-intuitive, dangerous and basically nobody expects this behavior.

To illustrate that, we can break the tmpdir stdlib by defining a top-level class variable:

    $ ruby -rtmpdir -e '$SAFE=1; @@systmpdir=42; p Dir.mktmpdir {}'
    -e:1: warning: class variable access from toplevel
    Traceback (most recent call last):
    	3: from -e:1:in `<main>'
    	2: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/tmpdir.rb:86:in `mktmpdir'
    	1: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/tmpdir.rb:125:in `create'
    /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/tmpdir.rb:125:in `join': no implicit conversion of Integer into String (TypeError)

Or even simpler in RubyGems:

    $ ruby -e '@@all=42; p Gem.ruby_version'
    -e:1: warning: class variable access from toplevel
    Traceback (most recent call last):
    	3: from -e:1:in `<main>'
    	2: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/rubygems.rb:984:in `ruby_version'
    	1: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/rubygems/version.rb:199:in `new'
    /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/rubygems/version.rb:199:in `[]': no implicit conversion of String into Integer (TypeError)

So defining a class variable on Object removes class variables in all classes inheriting from Object.
Maybe @@systmpdir is not so prone to conflict, but how about @@identifier, @@context, @@locales, @@sequence, @@all, etc which are class variables of the standard library?

Moreover, class variables are extremely complex to implement correctly and very difficult to optimize due to the complex semantics.
In fact, none of JRuby, TruffleRuby, Rubinius and MRuby implement the "setting a class var on Object removes class vars in subclasses".
It seems all implementations but MRI print :foo twice here (instead of :foo :toplevel for MRI):

~~~ ruby
class Foo
  @@cvar = :foo
  def self.read
    @@cvar
  end
end

p Foo.read
@@cvar = :toplevel
p Foo.read
~~~


Is there any library actually taking advantage that class variables are inherited between classes? I would guess not or very few.
Therefore, I propose to give class variable intuitive semantics: no inheritance, they behave just like variables of that specific class, much like class-level instance variables (but separate for compatibility).

Another option is to remove them completely, but that's likely too hard for compatibility.

Thoughts?



-- 
https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/

[ruby-core:85754] [Ruby trunk Bug#14541] Class variables have broken semantics, let's fix them

[eregontp]

Issue #14541 has been updated by Eregon (Benoit Daloze).


shevegen (Robert A. Heiler) wrote:
> I'd rather just remove them altogether. :P

That might be possible in Ruby 3, but unlikely in Ruby 2.x.
Even then, I don't think we want to break compatibility too much for Ruby 3.
I would rather see this fixed before Ruby 3.

There are currently 228 instances of "@@" in the standard library alone, so it seems that breaking those and many gems would be unbearable.

Moreover, manually defining class-level instance variables with

~~~ruby
class MyClass
  @classvar = :initial_value
  class << self
    attr_accessor :@classvar
  end

  def some_use_of_classvar
    MyClass.classvar ||= ...
  end
end
~~~

is quite cumbersome, verbose and error-prone (to define the accessors on the singleton class).

So I think having the current class variables (@@) but with simple semantics would be convenient.
And I believe that would incidentally achieve what most of class variables usages in the wild expect (no inheritance, just state on the specific class).

----------------------------------------
Bug #14541: Class variables have broken semantics, let's fix them
https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/14541#change-70596

* Author: Eregon (Benoit Daloze)
* Status: Open
* Priority: Normal
* Assignee: 
* Target version: 
* ruby -v: ruby 2.6.0dev (2018-01-29 trunk 62091) [x86_64-linux]
* Backport: 2.3: UNKNOWN, 2.4: UNKNOWN, 2.5: UNKNOWN
----------------------------------------
Class variables have the weird semantics of being tied to the class hierarchy and being inherited between classes.
I think this is counter-intuitive, dangerous and basically nobody expects this behavior.

To illustrate that, we can break the tmpdir stdlib by defining a top-level class variable:

    $ ruby -rtmpdir -e '$SAFE=1; @@systmpdir=42; p Dir.mktmpdir {}'
    -e:1: warning: class variable access from toplevel
    Traceback (most recent call last):
    	3: from -e:1:in `<main>'
    	2: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/tmpdir.rb:86:in `mktmpdir'
    	1: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/tmpdir.rb:125:in `create'
    /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/tmpdir.rb:125:in `join': no implicit conversion of Integer into String (TypeError)

Or even simpler in RubyGems:

    $ ruby -e '@@all=42; p Gem.ruby_version'
    -e:1: warning: class variable access from toplevel
    Traceback (most recent call last):
    	3: from -e:1:in `<main>'
    	2: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/rubygems.rb:984:in `ruby_version'
    	1: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/rubygems/version.rb:199:in `new'
    /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/rubygems/version.rb:199:in `[]': no implicit conversion of String into Integer (TypeError)

So defining a class variable on Object removes class variables in all classes inheriting from Object.
Maybe @@systmpdir is not so prone to conflict, but how about @@identifier, @@context, @@locales, @@sequence, @@all, etc which are class variables of the standard library?

Moreover, class variables are extremely complex to implement correctly and very difficult to optimize due to the complex semantics.
In fact, none of JRuby, TruffleRuby, Rubinius and MRuby implement the "setting a class var on Object removes class vars in subclasses".
It seems all implementations but MRI print :foo twice here (instead of :foo :toplevel for MRI):

~~~ ruby
class Foo
  @@cvar = :foo
  def self.read
    @@cvar
  end
end

p Foo.read
@@cvar = :toplevel
p Foo.read
~~~


Is there any library actually taking advantage that class variables are inherited between classes? I would guess not or very few.
Therefore, I propose to give class variable intuitive semantics: no inheritance, they behave just like variables of that specific class, much like class-level instance variables (but separate for compatibility).

Another option is to remove them completely, but that's likely too hard for compatibility.

Thoughts?



-- 
https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/

[ruby-core:85756] [Ruby trunk Bug#14541] Class variables have broken semantics, let's fix them

[danieldasilvaferreira]

Issue #14541 has been updated by dsferreira (Daniel Ferreira).


 Eregon (Benoit Daloze) wrote:

> Moreover, manually defining class-level instance variables with
> 
> class MyClass
>   @classvar = :initial_value
>   class << self
>     attr_accessor :@classvar
>   end
> 
>   def some_use_of_classvar
>     MyClass.classvar ||= ...
>   end
> end
>
> is quite cumbersome, verbose and error-prone (to define the accessors on the singleton class).

This is one of those change requests that I have thought about for a long time already but didn't request it because I thought it would not be accepted.
I totally support it.

This kind of code example is kind of what I end up with (add private methods to it) in order to avoid all the quirks of current class variables.
Making class variables predictable by not giving them inheritance would be good but then how would we share state between the class hierarchy?
Using a top level class accessor? That works for me. Any situation where it would not apply? 

Hope this can be accepted.


----------------------------------------
Bug #14541: Class variables have broken semantics, let's fix them
https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/14541#change-70597

* Author: Eregon (Benoit Daloze)
* Status: Open
* Priority: Normal
* Assignee: 
* Target version: 
* ruby -v: ruby 2.6.0dev (2018-01-29 trunk 62091) [x86_64-linux]
* Backport: 2.3: UNKNOWN, 2.4: UNKNOWN, 2.5: UNKNOWN
----------------------------------------
Class variables have the weird semantics of being tied to the class hierarchy and being inherited between classes.
I think this is counter-intuitive, dangerous and basically nobody expects this behavior.

To illustrate that, we can break the tmpdir stdlib by defining a top-level class variable:

    $ ruby -rtmpdir -e '$SAFE=1; @@systmpdir=42; p Dir.mktmpdir {}'
    -e:1: warning: class variable access from toplevel
    Traceback (most recent call last):
    	3: from -e:1:in `<main>'
    	2: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/tmpdir.rb:86:in `mktmpdir'
    	1: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/tmpdir.rb:125:in `create'
    /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/tmpdir.rb:125:in `join': no implicit conversion of Integer into String (TypeError)

Or even simpler in RubyGems:

    $ ruby -e '@@all=42; p Gem.ruby_version'
    -e:1: warning: class variable access from toplevel
    Traceback (most recent call last):
    	3: from -e:1:in `<main>'
    	2: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/rubygems.rb:984:in `ruby_version'
    	1: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/rubygems/version.rb:199:in `new'
    /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/rubygems/version.rb:199:in `[]': no implicit conversion of String into Integer (TypeError)

So defining a class variable on Object removes class variables in all classes inheriting from Object.
Maybe @@systmpdir is not so prone to conflict, but how about @@identifier, @@context, @@locales, @@sequence, @@all, etc which are class variables of the standard library?

Moreover, class variables are extremely complex to implement correctly and very difficult to optimize due to the complex semantics.
In fact, none of JRuby, TruffleRuby, Rubinius and MRuby implement the "setting a class var on Object removes class vars in subclasses".
It seems all implementations but MRI print :foo twice here (instead of :foo :toplevel for MRI):

~~~ ruby
class Foo
  @@cvar = :foo
  def self.read
    @@cvar
  end
end

p Foo.read
@@cvar = :toplevel
p Foo.read
~~~


Is there any library actually taking advantage that class variables are inherited between classes? I would guess not or very few.
Therefore, I propose to give class variable intuitive semantics: no inheritance, they behave just like variables of that specific class, much like class-level instance variables (but separate for compatibility).

Another option is to remove them completely, but that's likely too hard for compatibility.

Thoughts?



-- 
https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/

[ruby-core:86062] [Ruby trunk Bug#14541] Class variables have broken semantics, let's fix them

[shevegen]

Issue #14541 has been updated by shevegen (Robert A. Heiler).


> This is one of those change requests that I have thought about for
> a long time already but didn't request it because I thought it
> would not be accepted.

I may be wrong but I think that matz has indicated a possibility to
change the behaviour (for ruby 3.x, I assume, probably not in the
2.x branch). Perhaps it may not be accepted for 2.x, but I assume
that there may be a possibility for 3.x.

If I recall correctly - and this is mostly based on matz giving
presentations over the last ~4 years or so, also in particular 
the one about "good change, bad change" - matz said that there was
pain/problems/complaints in regards to the change between ruby 1.8.x
and  1.9.x leading up towards 2.x and he wants to avoid that when
possible.

And this may be one of the primary reasons why some changes may not
happen too quickly, if only to not avoid breaking a lot of code.

Though matz has also said that ruby 3.x can make backwards incompatible
changes, so there may be a possibility to see @@variables revisited.
It's not on my personal list of very important things, since I do not
use them - but I otherwise agree with Benoit. :) I think the main 
thing is that @@variables do not really provide a huge, compelling
advantage over other means to write ruby code. At the least I have
not found a situation where I would miss @@variables - in the past
I misused CONSTANTS to store data, until I found out that I could
use @foo variables too and use setters/getters on the module/class
level. :D

I think what may be useful in regards to any possibility to revisit
@@variables is if other (more) ruby hackers could add to the tracker
here whether they use class variables; and what their usage pattern
is for them. So far it seems as if those who commented here, do not
really use/need them.

It may be that almost nobody uses them these days, I have no idea :) -
but in the event that some day @@variables may be changed or 
removed, perhaps those who may be affected by it could comment; and
a transition path could be suggested for those who still use them.
Transition meaning such as a warning for deprecation and perhaps a
documentation explaining how to avoid having to use them or suggest
alternatives, in a doc at https://www.ruby-lang.org/en/. A bit
similar to the doc that explains the "Symbol versus String" situation
that has been added recently.

On the other hand, if not many ruby hackers complain about @@vars,
then perhaps this is an indication that class variables are not
really that much in use in the first place. In these cases, changing
or removing them may not affect many people. For example, to me the
two biggest problems from ruby 1.8.x and ruby versions past that 
were the encoding situation and the yaml->psych transition. These
days I am not affected that much by either, but back then it was
a lot harder to transition. (I am also trying to stay up to date
when it comes to ruby versions, so the xmas releases systematically
replace my current ruby.)

The upcoming ruby developer meeting at:

https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/projects/ruby/wiki/DevelopersMeeting20180315Japan

will discuss it soon, so anyone who wants to chime in before
the meeting, please do so, no matter if you like or dislike,
use or don't use class variables.

----------------------------------------
Bug #14541: Class variables have broken semantics, let's fix them
https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/14541#change-70927

* Author: Eregon (Benoit Daloze)
* Status: Open
* Priority: Normal
* Assignee: 
* Target version: 
* ruby -v: ruby 2.6.0dev (2018-01-29 trunk 62091) [x86_64-linux]
* Backport: 2.3: UNKNOWN, 2.4: UNKNOWN, 2.5: UNKNOWN
----------------------------------------
Class variables have the weird semantics of being tied to the class hierarchy and being inherited between classes.
I think this is counter-intuitive, dangerous and basically nobody expects this behavior.

To illustrate that, we can break the tmpdir stdlib by defining a top-level class variable:

    $ ruby -rtmpdir -e '$SAFE=1; @@systmpdir=42; p Dir.mktmpdir {}'
    -e:1: warning: class variable access from toplevel
    Traceback (most recent call last):
    	3: from -e:1:in `<main>'
    	2: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/tmpdir.rb:86:in `mktmpdir'
    	1: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/tmpdir.rb:125:in `create'
    /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/tmpdir.rb:125:in `join': no implicit conversion of Integer into String (TypeError)

Or even simpler in RubyGems:

    $ ruby -e '@@all=42; p Gem.ruby_version'
    -e:1: warning: class variable access from toplevel
    Traceback (most recent call last):
    	3: from -e:1:in `<main>'
    	2: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/rubygems.rb:984:in `ruby_version'
    	1: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/rubygems/version.rb:199:in `new'
    /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/rubygems/version.rb:199:in `[]': no implicit conversion of String into Integer (TypeError)

So defining a class variable on Object removes class variables in all classes inheriting from Object.
Maybe @@systmpdir is not so prone to conflict, but how about @@identifier, @@context, @@locales, @@sequence, @@all, etc which are class variables of the standard library?

Moreover, class variables are extremely complex to implement correctly and very difficult to optimize due to the complex semantics.
In fact, none of JRuby, TruffleRuby, Rubinius and MRuby implement the "setting a class var on Object removes class vars in subclasses".
It seems all implementations but MRI print :foo twice here (instead of :foo :toplevel for MRI):

~~~ ruby
class Foo
  @@cvar = :foo
  def self.read
    @@cvar
  end
end

p Foo.read
@@cvar = :toplevel
p Foo.read
~~~


Is there any library actually taking advantage that class variables are inherited between classes? I would guess not or very few.
Therefore, I propose to give class variable intuitive semantics: no inheritance, they behave just like variables of that specific class, much like class-level instance variables (but separate for compatibility).

Another option is to remove them completely, but that's likely too hard for compatibility.

Thoughts?



-- 
https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/

[ruby-core:86064] [Ruby trunk Bug#14541] Class variables have broken semantics, let's fix them

[danieldasilvaferreira]

Issue #14541 has been updated by dsferreira (Daniel Ferreira).


shevegen (Robert A. Heiler) wrote:

> A bit similar to the doc that explains the "Symbol versus String" situation that has been added recently.

Can you please paste here the link to the “Symbol versus String” doc?

----------------------------------------
Bug #14541: Class variables have broken semantics, let's fix them
https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/14541#change-70929

* Author: Eregon (Benoit Daloze)
* Status: Open
* Priority: Normal
* Assignee: 
* Target version: 
* ruby -v: ruby 2.6.0dev (2018-01-29 trunk 62091) [x86_64-linux]
* Backport: 2.3: UNKNOWN, 2.4: UNKNOWN, 2.5: UNKNOWN
----------------------------------------
Class variables have the weird semantics of being tied to the class hierarchy and being inherited between classes.
I think this is counter-intuitive, dangerous and basically nobody expects this behavior.

To illustrate that, we can break the tmpdir stdlib by defining a top-level class variable:

    $ ruby -rtmpdir -e '$SAFE=1; @@systmpdir=42; p Dir.mktmpdir {}'
    -e:1: warning: class variable access from toplevel
    Traceback (most recent call last):
    	3: from -e:1:in `<main>'
    	2: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/tmpdir.rb:86:in `mktmpdir'
    	1: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/tmpdir.rb:125:in `create'
    /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/tmpdir.rb:125:in `join': no implicit conversion of Integer into String (TypeError)

Or even simpler in RubyGems:

    $ ruby -e '@@all=42; p Gem.ruby_version'
    -e:1: warning: class variable access from toplevel
    Traceback (most recent call last):
    	3: from -e:1:in `<main>'
    	2: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/rubygems.rb:984:in `ruby_version'
    	1: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/rubygems/version.rb:199:in `new'
    /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/rubygems/version.rb:199:in `[]': no implicit conversion of String into Integer (TypeError)

So defining a class variable on Object removes class variables in all classes inheriting from Object.
Maybe @@systmpdir is not so prone to conflict, but how about @@identifier, @@context, @@locales, @@sequence, @@all, etc which are class variables of the standard library?

Moreover, class variables are extremely complex to implement correctly and very difficult to optimize due to the complex semantics.
In fact, none of JRuby, TruffleRuby, Rubinius and MRuby implement the "setting a class var on Object removes class vars in subclasses".
It seems all implementations but MRI print :foo twice here (instead of :foo :toplevel for MRI):

~~~ ruby
class Foo
  @@cvar = :foo
  def self.read
    @@cvar
  end
end

p Foo.read
@@cvar = :toplevel
p Foo.read
~~~


Is there any library actually taking advantage that class variables are inherited between classes? I would guess not or very few.
Therefore, I propose to give class variable intuitive semantics: no inheritance, they behave just like variables of that specific class, much like class-level instance variables (but separate for compatibility).

Another option is to remove them completely, but that's likely too hard for compatibility.

Thoughts?



-- 
https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/

[ruby-core:86067] [Ruby trunk Bug#14541] Class variables have broken semantics, let's fix them

[eregontp]

Issue #14541 has been updated by Eregon (Benoit Daloze).


If changing class variables to no longer be inherited between classes is considered too hard for compatibility (but I'd like a real-world example),
how about at least removing the semantics that defining a class variable in a superclass removes class variables of the same name in all subclasses?

As said above, it seems no implementation but MRI implements that currently, showing how little Ruby code relies on that.
I argue it's also a very confusing behavior for the programmer, as illustrated by the examples in this bug description.
Defining a class variable at the top-level basically breaks encapsulation for all class variables of the same name, which sounds like something nobody wants.

I do believe much simpler semantics for class variables without inheriting between classes is what most Ruby developers want,
and I would be interested to see if there is any Ruby code using class variable inheritance on purpose.

----------------------------------------
Bug #14541: Class variables have broken semantics, let's fix them
https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/14541#change-70931

* Author: Eregon (Benoit Daloze)
* Status: Open
* Priority: Normal
* Assignee: 
* Target version: 
* ruby -v: ruby 2.6.0dev (2018-01-29 trunk 62091) [x86_64-linux]
* Backport: 2.3: UNKNOWN, 2.4: UNKNOWN, 2.5: UNKNOWN
----------------------------------------
Class variables have the weird semantics of being tied to the class hierarchy and being inherited between classes.
I think this is counter-intuitive, dangerous and basically nobody expects this behavior.

To illustrate that, we can break the tmpdir stdlib by defining a top-level class variable:

    $ ruby -rtmpdir -e '$SAFE=1; @@systmpdir=42; p Dir.mktmpdir {}'
    -e:1: warning: class variable access from toplevel
    Traceback (most recent call last):
    	3: from -e:1:in `<main>'
    	2: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/tmpdir.rb:86:in `mktmpdir'
    	1: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/tmpdir.rb:125:in `create'
    /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/tmpdir.rb:125:in `join': no implicit conversion of Integer into String (TypeError)

Or even simpler in RubyGems:

    $ ruby -e '@@all=42; p Gem.ruby_version'
    -e:1: warning: class variable access from toplevel
    Traceback (most recent call last):
    	3: from -e:1:in `<main>'
    	2: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/rubygems.rb:984:in `ruby_version'
    	1: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/rubygems/version.rb:199:in `new'
    /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/rubygems/version.rb:199:in `[]': no implicit conversion of String into Integer (TypeError)

So defining a class variable on Object removes class variables in all classes inheriting from Object.
Maybe @@systmpdir is not so prone to conflict, but how about @@identifier, @@context, @@locales, @@sequence, @@all, etc which are class variables of the standard library?

Moreover, class variables are extremely complex to implement correctly and very difficult to optimize due to the complex semantics.
In fact, none of JRuby, TruffleRuby, Rubinius and MRuby implement the "setting a class var on Object removes class vars in subclasses".
It seems all implementations but MRI print :foo twice here (instead of :foo :toplevel for MRI):

~~~ ruby
class Foo
  @@cvar = :foo
  def self.read
    @@cvar
  end
end

p Foo.read
@@cvar = :toplevel
p Foo.read
~~~


Is there any library actually taking advantage that class variables are inherited between classes? I would guess not or very few.
Therefore, I propose to give class variable intuitive semantics: no inheritance, they behave just like variables of that specific class, much like class-level instance variables (but separate for compatibility).

Another option is to remove them completely, but that's likely too hard for compatibility.

Thoughts?



-- 
https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/

[ruby-core:86126] [Ruby trunk Bug#14541] Class variables have broken semantics, let's fix them

[matz]

Issue #14541 has been updated by matz (Yukihiro Matsumoto).


Although the use of class variables is not recommended (like global variables), proposed behavior changes introduce huge incompatibility.

Error-prone cases like above examples, we already give warnings.

* "warning: class variable access from toplevel"
* "warning: class variable @foo of D is overtaken by C"

So this so-called bug is a consequence of ignoring the warnings. Don't.

It's possible to make those warning replaced by exceptions. I am strongly positive about it.

Matz.




----------------------------------------
Bug #14541: Class variables have broken semantics, let's fix them
https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/14541#change-71000

* Author: Eregon (Benoit Daloze)
* Status: Open
* Priority: Normal
* Assignee: 
* Target version: 
* ruby -v: ruby 2.6.0dev (2018-01-29 trunk 62091) [x86_64-linux]
* Backport: 2.3: UNKNOWN, 2.4: UNKNOWN, 2.5: UNKNOWN
----------------------------------------
Class variables have the weird semantics of being tied to the class hierarchy and being inherited between classes.
I think this is counter-intuitive, dangerous and basically nobody expects this behavior.

To illustrate that, we can break the tmpdir stdlib by defining a top-level class variable:

    $ ruby -rtmpdir -e '$SAFE=1; @@systmpdir=42; p Dir.mktmpdir {}'
    -e:1: warning: class variable access from toplevel
    Traceback (most recent call last):
    	3: from -e:1:in `<main>'
    	2: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/tmpdir.rb:86:in `mktmpdir'
    	1: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/tmpdir.rb:125:in `create'
    /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/tmpdir.rb:125:in `join': no implicit conversion of Integer into String (TypeError)

Or even simpler in RubyGems:

    $ ruby -e '@@all=42; p Gem.ruby_version'
    -e:1: warning: class variable access from toplevel
    Traceback (most recent call last):
    	3: from -e:1:in `<main>'
    	2: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/rubygems.rb:984:in `ruby_version'
    	1: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/rubygems/version.rb:199:in `new'
    /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/rubygems/version.rb:199:in `[]': no implicit conversion of String into Integer (TypeError)

So defining a class variable on Object removes class variables in all classes inheriting from Object.
Maybe @@systmpdir is not so prone to conflict, but how about @@identifier, @@context, @@locales, @@sequence, @@all, etc which are class variables of the standard library?

Moreover, class variables are extremely complex to implement correctly and very difficult to optimize due to the complex semantics.
In fact, none of JRuby, TruffleRuby, Rubinius and MRuby implement the "setting a class var on Object removes class vars in subclasses".
It seems all implementations but MRI print :foo twice here (instead of :foo :toplevel for MRI):

~~~ ruby
class Foo
  @@cvar = :foo
  def self.read
    @@cvar
  end
end

p Foo.read
@@cvar = :toplevel
p Foo.read
~~~


Is there any library actually taking advantage that class variables are inherited between classes? I would guess not or very few.
Therefore, I propose to give class variable intuitive semantics: no inheritance, they behave just like variables of that specific class, much like class-level instance variables (but separate for compatibility).

Another option is to remove them completely, but that's likely too hard for compatibility.

Thoughts?



-- 
https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/

[ruby-core:86142] [Ruby trunk Bug#14541] Class variables have broken semantics, let's fix them

[eregontp]

Issue #14541 has been updated by Eregon (Benoit Daloze).


matz (Yukihiro Matsumoto) wrote:
> It's possible to make those warning replaced by exceptions. I am strongly positive about it.

OK, at least that would remove the very confusing semantics of a class variable in a superclass removes class variables with the same name in subclasses.
What exception class should be used? A RuntimeError?

FWIW, I tried removing the class hierarchy lookup for class variables.
Here is an incomplete patch, but it passes ruby/spec and almost test-all (a couple tests hang, I didn't have time to investigate those):
https://github.com/ruby/ruby/compare/trunk...eregon:classvar_not_inherited

CGI and Gem::TestCase seem to use class variables pretty much like global variables, so I replaced those with class-level instance variables.
I think it would be worth to merge those changes, regardless of what happens to class variables, since it makes the logic much clearer.
I hope I'll have time for it.

----------------------------------------
Bug #14541: Class variables have broken semantics, let's fix them
https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/14541#change-71022

* Author: Eregon (Benoit Daloze)
* Status: Open
* Priority: Normal
* Assignee: 
* Target version: 
* ruby -v: ruby 2.6.0dev (2018-01-29 trunk 62091) [x86_64-linux]
* Backport: 2.3: UNKNOWN, 2.4: UNKNOWN, 2.5: UNKNOWN
----------------------------------------
Class variables have the weird semantics of being tied to the class hierarchy and being inherited between classes.
I think this is counter-intuitive, dangerous and basically nobody expects this behavior.

To illustrate that, we can break the tmpdir stdlib by defining a top-level class variable:

    $ ruby -rtmpdir -e '$SAFE=1; @@systmpdir=42; p Dir.mktmpdir {}'
    -e:1: warning: class variable access from toplevel
    Traceback (most recent call last):
    	3: from -e:1:in `<main>'
    	2: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/tmpdir.rb:86:in `mktmpdir'
    	1: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/tmpdir.rb:125:in `create'
    /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/tmpdir.rb:125:in `join': no implicit conversion of Integer into String (TypeError)

Or even simpler in RubyGems:

    $ ruby -e '@@all=42; p Gem.ruby_version'
    -e:1: warning: class variable access from toplevel
    Traceback (most recent call last):
    	3: from -e:1:in `<main>'
    	2: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/rubygems.rb:984:in `ruby_version'
    	1: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/rubygems/version.rb:199:in `new'
    /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/rubygems/version.rb:199:in `[]': no implicit conversion of String into Integer (TypeError)

So defining a class variable on Object removes class variables in all classes inheriting from Object.
Maybe @@systmpdir is not so prone to conflict, but how about @@identifier, @@context, @@locales, @@sequence, @@all, etc which are class variables of the standard library?

Moreover, class variables are extremely complex to implement correctly and very difficult to optimize due to the complex semantics.
In fact, none of JRuby, TruffleRuby, Rubinius and MRuby implement the "setting a class var on Object removes class vars in subclasses".
It seems all implementations but MRI print :foo twice here (instead of :foo :toplevel for MRI):

~~~ ruby
class Foo
  @@cvar = :foo
  def self.read
    @@cvar
  end
end

p Foo.read
@@cvar = :toplevel
p Foo.read
~~~


Is there any library actually taking advantage that class variables are inherited between classes? I would guess not or very few.
Therefore, I propose to give class variable intuitive semantics: no inheritance, they behave just like variables of that specific class, much like class-level instance variables (but separate for compatibility).

Another option is to remove them completely, but that's likely too hard for compatibility.

Thoughts?



-- 
https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/

[ruby-core:86143] [Ruby trunk Bug#14541] Class variables have broken semantics, let's fix them

[hanmac]

Issue #14541 has been updated by Hanmac (Hans Mackowiak).


@Eregon: the problem is the other way around ...

a class variable in a superclass DOES NOT removes class variables in subclasses.

BUT if you define the class variable in the superclass BEFORE the one is defined in the subclasses,

THEN the subclass will use the parent one instead

----------------------------------------
Bug #14541: Class variables have broken semantics, let's fix them
https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/14541#change-71023

* Author: Eregon (Benoit Daloze)
* Status: Open
* Priority: Normal
* Assignee: 
* Target version: 
* ruby -v: ruby 2.6.0dev (2018-01-29 trunk 62091) [x86_64-linux]
* Backport: 2.3: UNKNOWN, 2.4: UNKNOWN, 2.5: UNKNOWN
----------------------------------------
Class variables have the weird semantics of being tied to the class hierarchy and being inherited between classes.
I think this is counter-intuitive, dangerous and basically nobody expects this behavior.

To illustrate that, we can break the tmpdir stdlib by defining a top-level class variable:

    $ ruby -rtmpdir -e '$SAFE=1; @@systmpdir=42; p Dir.mktmpdir {}'
    -e:1: warning: class variable access from toplevel
    Traceback (most recent call last):
    	3: from -e:1:in `<main>'
    	2: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/tmpdir.rb:86:in `mktmpdir'
    	1: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/tmpdir.rb:125:in `create'
    /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/tmpdir.rb:125:in `join': no implicit conversion of Integer into String (TypeError)

Or even simpler in RubyGems:

    $ ruby -e '@@all=42; p Gem.ruby_version'
    -e:1: warning: class variable access from toplevel
    Traceback (most recent call last):
    	3: from -e:1:in `<main>'
    	2: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/rubygems.rb:984:in `ruby_version'
    	1: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/rubygems/version.rb:199:in `new'
    /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/rubygems/version.rb:199:in `[]': no implicit conversion of String into Integer (TypeError)

So defining a class variable on Object removes class variables in all classes inheriting from Object.
Maybe @@systmpdir is not so prone to conflict, but how about @@identifier, @@context, @@locales, @@sequence, @@all, etc which are class variables of the standard library?

Moreover, class variables are extremely complex to implement correctly and very difficult to optimize due to the complex semantics.
In fact, none of JRuby, TruffleRuby, Rubinius and MRuby implement the "setting a class var on Object removes class vars in subclasses".
It seems all implementations but MRI print :foo twice here (instead of :foo :toplevel for MRI):

~~~ ruby
class Foo
  @@cvar = :foo
  def self.read
    @@cvar
  end
end

p Foo.read
@@cvar = :toplevel
p Foo.read
~~~


Is there any library actually taking advantage that class variables are inherited between classes? I would guess not or very few.
Therefore, I propose to give class variable intuitive semantics: no inheritance, they behave just like variables of that specific class, much like class-level instance variables (but separate for compatibility).

Another option is to remove them completely, but that's likely too hard for compatibility.

Thoughts?



-- 
https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/

[ruby-core:86148] [Ruby trunk Bug#14541] Class variables have broken semantics, let's fix them

[eregontp]

Issue #14541 has been updated by Eregon (Benoit Daloze).


@Hanmac: Both problems exist, see the example in the description.
The semantics are confusing, that's why I wish we could simplify to avoid inheritance between class variables.
But, matz says it is too incompatible.

----------------------------------------
Bug #14541: Class variables have broken semantics, let's fix them
https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/14541#change-71027

* Author: Eregon (Benoit Daloze)
* Status: Open
* Priority: Normal
* Assignee: 
* Target version: 
* ruby -v: ruby 2.6.0dev (2018-01-29 trunk 62091) [x86_64-linux]
* Backport: 2.3: UNKNOWN, 2.4: UNKNOWN, 2.5: UNKNOWN
----------------------------------------
Class variables have the weird semantics of being tied to the class hierarchy and being inherited between classes.
I think this is counter-intuitive, dangerous and basically nobody expects this behavior.

To illustrate that, we can break the tmpdir stdlib by defining a top-level class variable:

    $ ruby -rtmpdir -e '$SAFE=1; @@systmpdir=42; p Dir.mktmpdir {}'
    -e:1: warning: class variable access from toplevel
    Traceback (most recent call last):
    	3: from -e:1:in `<main>'
    	2: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/tmpdir.rb:86:in `mktmpdir'
    	1: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/tmpdir.rb:125:in `create'
    /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/tmpdir.rb:125:in `join': no implicit conversion of Integer into String (TypeError)

Or even simpler in RubyGems:

    $ ruby -e '@@all=42; p Gem.ruby_version'
    -e:1: warning: class variable access from toplevel
    Traceback (most recent call last):
    	3: from -e:1:in `<main>'
    	2: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/rubygems.rb:984:in `ruby_version'
    	1: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/rubygems/version.rb:199:in `new'
    /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/rubygems/version.rb:199:in `[]': no implicit conversion of String into Integer (TypeError)

So defining a class variable on Object removes class variables in all classes inheriting from Object.
Maybe @@systmpdir is not so prone to conflict, but how about @@identifier, @@context, @@locales, @@sequence, @@all, etc which are class variables of the standard library?

Moreover, class variables are extremely complex to implement correctly and very difficult to optimize due to the complex semantics.
In fact, none of JRuby, TruffleRuby, Rubinius and MRuby implement the "setting a class var on Object removes class vars in subclasses".
It seems all implementations but MRI print :foo twice here (instead of :foo :toplevel for MRI):

~~~ ruby
class Foo
  @@cvar = :foo
  def self.read
    @@cvar
  end
end

p Foo.read
@@cvar = :toplevel
p Foo.read
~~~


Is there any library actually taking advantage that class variables are inherited between classes? I would guess not or very few.
Therefore, I propose to give class variable intuitive semantics: no inheritance, they behave just like variables of that specific class, much like class-level instance variables (but separate for compatibility).

Another option is to remove them completely, but that's likely too hard for compatibility.

Thoughts?



-- 
https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/

[ruby-core:89318] [Ruby trunk Bug#14541] Class variables have broken semantics, let's fix them

[Ruby-Lang]

Issue #14541 has been updated by jwmittag (Jörg W Mittag).


Hanmac (Hans Mackowiak) wrote:
> @Eregon: the problem is the other way around ...
> 
> a class variable in a superclass DOES NOT removes class variables in subclasses.
> 
> BUT if you define the class variable in the superclass BEFORE the one is defined in the subclasses,
> 
> THEN the subclass will use the parent one instead

In addition to what Benoit said, there is another problem, namely that class definitions in Ruby are never "finished", so when talking about making changes to classes, "before" and "after" doesn't even make sense. You could always add a variable to either a subclass or a subclass at any time!

----------------------------------------
Bug #14541: Class variables have broken semantics, let's fix them
https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/14541#change-74347

* Author: Eregon (Benoit Daloze)
* Status: Open
* Priority: Normal
* Assignee: 
* Target version: 
* ruby -v: ruby 2.6.0dev (2018-01-29 trunk 62091) [x86_64-linux]
* Backport: 2.3: UNKNOWN, 2.4: UNKNOWN, 2.5: UNKNOWN
----------------------------------------
Class variables have the weird semantics of being tied to the class hierarchy and being inherited between classes.
I think this is counter-intuitive, dangerous and basically nobody expects this behavior.

To illustrate that, we can break the tmpdir stdlib by defining a top-level class variable:

    $ ruby -rtmpdir -e '$SAFE=1; @@systmpdir=42; p Dir.mktmpdir {}'
    -e:1: warning: class variable access from toplevel
    Traceback (most recent call last):
    	3: from -e:1:in `<main>'
    	2: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/tmpdir.rb:86:in `mktmpdir'
    	1: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/tmpdir.rb:125:in `create'
    /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/tmpdir.rb:125:in `join': no implicit conversion of Integer into String (TypeError)

Or even simpler in RubyGems:

    $ ruby -e '@@all=42; p Gem.ruby_version'
    -e:1: warning: class variable access from toplevel
    Traceback (most recent call last):
    	3: from -e:1:in `<main>'
    	2: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/rubygems.rb:984:in `ruby_version'
    	1: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/rubygems/version.rb:199:in `new'
    /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/rubygems/version.rb:199:in `[]': no implicit conversion of String into Integer (TypeError)

So defining a class variable on Object removes class variables in all classes inheriting from Object.
Maybe @@systmpdir is not so prone to conflict, but how about @@identifier, @@context, @@locales, @@sequence, @@all, etc which are class variables of the standard library?

Moreover, class variables are extremely complex to implement correctly and very difficult to optimize due to the complex semantics.
In fact, none of JRuby, TruffleRuby, Rubinius and MRuby implement the "setting a class var on Object removes class vars in subclasses".
It seems all implementations but MRI print :foo twice here (instead of :foo :toplevel for MRI):

~~~ ruby
class Foo
  @@cvar = :foo
  def self.read
    @@cvar
  end
end

p Foo.read
@@cvar = :toplevel
p Foo.read
~~~


Is there any library actually taking advantage that class variables are inherited between classes? I would guess not or very few.
Therefore, I propose to give class variable intuitive semantics: no inheritance, they behave just like variables of that specific class, much like class-level instance variables (but separate for compatibility).

Another option is to remove them completely, but that's likely too hard for compatibility.

Thoughts?



-- 
https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/

[ruby-core:90420] [Ruby trunk Bug#14541] Class variables have broken semantics, let's fix them

[lamont]

Issue #14541 has been updated by lamont (Lamont Granquist).


Inheritance of @@class variables is precisely what makes them useful, since they're truly one single global value.

And in addition to what matz points out rubocop has the Cop::Style::ClassVars warning.

As someone who manages a 10 year old, 250,000 line long ruby codebase, please don't remove them or change the semantics.  The class variables we have now in our project have often been around for 10 years and while in some purist sense they are all technical debt, they're not doing any harm -- forcing me to have a flag day to fix them all would be a large waste of my time (some of them have been fixed as they've been found to be problematic and/or the code in question simply got cleaned up as part of a larger refactoring pass).

----------------------------------------
Bug #14541: Class variables have broken semantics, let's fix them
https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/14541#change-75575

* Author: Eregon (Benoit Daloze)
* Status: Open
* Priority: Normal
* Assignee: 
* Target version: 
* ruby -v: ruby 2.6.0dev (2018-01-29 trunk 62091) [x86_64-linux]
* Backport: 2.3: UNKNOWN, 2.4: UNKNOWN, 2.5: UNKNOWN
----------------------------------------
Class variables have the weird semantics of being tied to the class hierarchy and being inherited between classes.
I think this is counter-intuitive, dangerous and basically nobody expects this behavior.

To illustrate that, we can break the tmpdir stdlib by defining a top-level class variable:

    $ ruby -rtmpdir -e '$SAFE=1; @@systmpdir=42; p Dir.mktmpdir {}'
    -e:1: warning: class variable access from toplevel
    Traceback (most recent call last):
    	3: from -e:1:in `<main>'
    	2: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/tmpdir.rb:86:in `mktmpdir'
    	1: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/tmpdir.rb:125:in `create'
    /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/tmpdir.rb:125:in `join': no implicit conversion of Integer into String (TypeError)

Or even simpler in RubyGems:

    $ ruby -e '@@all=42; p Gem.ruby_version'
    -e:1: warning: class variable access from toplevel
    Traceback (most recent call last):
    	3: from -e:1:in `<main>'
    	2: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/rubygems.rb:984:in `ruby_version'
    	1: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/rubygems/version.rb:199:in `new'
    /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/rubygems/version.rb:199:in `[]': no implicit conversion of String into Integer (TypeError)

So defining a class variable on Object removes class variables in all classes inheriting from Object.
Maybe @@systmpdir is not so prone to conflict, but how about @@identifier, @@context, @@locales, @@sequence, @@all, etc which are class variables of the standard library?

Moreover, class variables are extremely complex to implement correctly and very difficult to optimize due to the complex semantics.
In fact, none of JRuby, TruffleRuby, Rubinius and MRuby implement the "setting a class var on Object removes class vars in subclasses".
It seems all implementations but MRI print :foo twice here (instead of :foo :toplevel for MRI):

~~~ ruby
class Foo
  @@cvar = :foo
  def self.read
    @@cvar
  end
end

p Foo.read
@@cvar = :toplevel
p Foo.read
~~~


Is there any library actually taking advantage that class variables are inherited between classes? I would guess not or very few.
Therefore, I propose to give class variable intuitive semantics: no inheritance, they behave just like variables of that specific class, much like class-level instance variables (but separate for compatibility).

Another option is to remove them completely, but that's likely too hard for compatibility.

Thoughts?



-- 
https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/

[ruby-core:90873] [Ruby trunk Bug#14541] Class variables have broken semantics, let's fix them

[shevegen]

Issue #14541 has been updated by shevegen (Robert A. Heiler).


> Inheritance of @@class variables is precisely what makes them useful,
> since they're truly one single global value.

You can always find pros/cons. Some will find a feature useful, others
will not. My personal opinion, for example, is that I find @@vars
largely unnecessary, so I don't use them in my own code; another smaller
reason is that I find the two @ not so elegant. Others may have another
opinion and already expressed so, e. g. at a developer meeting some 
months ago - I think that will very often be the case where people have 
different opinions. And ultimately matz decides and he already decided
and explained here, and elsewhere. :)

I can achieve "inheritance" via @instance variables and specifying 
access to it via custom code too (well, methods), but I think it is not a very
strong argument to refer to it as what makes @@class variables that useful
to begin with, because ruby is so dynamic that inheritance and access-specifiers
aren't a very strict concept. For example, we can obtain and change variables at
"runtime" at any moment in ruby as-is, e. g. instance_variable_get/set
and so forth. Ruby is ultimately a "tool-box" of code and it has another concept
for both OOP but also how to interface with it (from the human side), compared
to, say, C++ and Java.

> And in addition to what matz points out rubocop has the
> Cop::Style::ClassVars warning.

Rubocop, and neither the style guide, are not designing ruby though. It's great
that rubocop exists; and it is great that it can be of help keeping code bases
sane. But that is only one part - the other part is the design of ruby as such in
itself. The ruby parser can also be thought of some kind of "style guide", e. g.
what it enforces, or what warnings it will show, and so forth. It would be nice if
we could customize it a bit more in general when it comes to warnings/notifications,
a bit like rubocop - but keeping this simple, too. Rubocop can become a bit 
complicated if you look at all the different cop-rules that projects can use. I
like simplicity too.

> As someone who manages a 10 year old, 250,000 line long ruby
> codebase, please don't remove them or change the semantics.

I have been using ruby for a very, very, very long time but ... how
can you manage to write 250.000 lines of ruby code? I assume that
must have been written by more than one person. 

> The class variables we have now in our project have often been
> around for 10 years and while in some purist sense they are all
> technical debt, they're not doing any harm -- forcing me to have
> a flag day to fix them all would be a large waste of my time
> (some of them have been fixed as they've been found to be
> problematic and/or the code in question simply got cleaned
> up as part of a larger refactoring pass).

I think you need not worry - matz already said that the incompatibility
issue is a real one, so it is super-unlikely that class variables will be changed; most
definitely not  for ruby 3.0 but I think probably also not at a later time. So a
lot of this discussion here is mostly a purely hypothetical one. There have been
other ruby users who expressed that they use @@class vars and that they also
like them. There is no "wrong" use of code as such per se; people will use features
and functionality when it is made available.

I think very large code bases are always problematic, not just in regards to ruby
alone but in general.

Matz also mentioned several times in presentations that he wants to avoid changes
such as from ruby 1.8.x to (ultimately) ruby 2.0 as that was a pain point for quite a
few people. So I think when  discussing it, we should mostly refer to this as a purely
theoretical  discussion.

I would also like to propose to eventually close this particular issue here eventually
when eregon is ok with it - ideally before ruby 3.0 is released, simply to keep the
amount of issues a bit smaller. (We could always have another discussion in the
future after 3.0 but I think the chances for change here are quite low, and about
0% for ruby 3.0 anyway; possibly even 0% at a later time but who knows.)

By the way I also agree that it is not something that is hugely important from a
practical point of view - people who like class variables can use them; those
who don't like them can avoid them. Ultimately project owners can specify what
they need/accept in code bases that they maintain. I have a long list of ruby code
I would reject - others may probably feel similar in a different way about ruby code
they find acceptable and code they don't. :) (I actually found that one of the biggest
problem is the lack of documentation and comments - some people never write 
any comments and barely any documentation, and it is very often that code written
by them is either brilliant or totally awful. And in both cases comments/documentation
would help OTHER people immensely, if it is up-to-date and of high quality.)

----------------------------------------
Bug #14541: Class variables have broken semantics, let's fix them
https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/14541#change-76060

* Author: Eregon (Benoit Daloze)
* Status: Open
* Priority: Normal
* Assignee: 
* Target version: 
* ruby -v: ruby 2.6.0dev (2018-01-29 trunk 62091) [x86_64-linux]
* Backport: 2.3: UNKNOWN, 2.4: UNKNOWN, 2.5: UNKNOWN
----------------------------------------
Class variables have the weird semantics of being tied to the class hierarchy and being inherited between classes.
I think this is counter-intuitive, dangerous and basically nobody expects this behavior.

To illustrate that, we can break the tmpdir stdlib by defining a top-level class variable:

    $ ruby -rtmpdir -e '$SAFE=1; @@systmpdir=42; p Dir.mktmpdir {}'
    -e:1: warning: class variable access from toplevel
    Traceback (most recent call last):
    	3: from -e:1:in `<main>'
    	2: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/tmpdir.rb:86:in `mktmpdir'
    	1: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/tmpdir.rb:125:in `create'
    /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/tmpdir.rb:125:in `join': no implicit conversion of Integer into String (TypeError)

Or even simpler in RubyGems:

    $ ruby -e '@@all=42; p Gem.ruby_version'
    -e:1: warning: class variable access from toplevel
    Traceback (most recent call last):
    	3: from -e:1:in `<main>'
    	2: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/rubygems.rb:984:in `ruby_version'
    	1: from /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/rubygems/version.rb:199:in `new'
    /home/eregon/prefix/ruby-trunk/lib/ruby/2.6.0/rubygems/version.rb:199:in `[]': no implicit conversion of String into Integer (TypeError)

So defining a class variable on Object removes class variables in all classes inheriting from Object.
Maybe @@systmpdir is not so prone to conflict, but how about @@identifier, @@context, @@locales, @@sequence, @@all, etc which are class variables of the standard library?

Moreover, class variables are extremely complex to implement correctly and very difficult to optimize due to the complex semantics.
In fact, none of JRuby, TruffleRuby, Rubinius and MRuby implement the "setting a class var on Object removes class vars in subclasses".
It seems all implementations but MRI print :foo twice here (instead of :foo :toplevel for MRI):

~~~ ruby
class Foo
  @@cvar = :foo
  def self.read
    @@cvar
  end
end

p Foo.read
@@cvar = :toplevel
p Foo.read
~~~


Is there any library actually taking advantage that class variables are inherited between classes? I would guess not or very few.
Therefore, I propose to give class variable intuitive semantics: no inheritance, they behave just like variables of that specific class, much like class-level instance variables (but separate for compatibility).

Another option is to remove them completely, but that's likely too hard for compatibility.

Thoughts?



-- 
https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/