From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on dcvr.yhbt.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-ASN: AS4713 221.184.0.0/13 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 required=3.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED,FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN, FREEMAIL_FROM,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED,SPF_PASS shortcircuit=no autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from neon.ruby-lang.org (neon.ruby-lang.org [221.186.184.75]) by dcvr.yhbt.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F2B9211B3 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2018 00:49:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: from neon.ruby-lang.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by neon.ruby-lang.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4B7A121132; Fri, 30 Nov 2018 09:49:54 +0900 (JST) Received: from o1678916x28.outbound-mail.sendgrid.net (o1678916x28.outbound-mail.sendgrid.net [167.89.16.28]) by neon.ruby-lang.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7326A12109E for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2018 09:49:52 +0900 (JST) Received: by filter0042p3iad2.sendgrid.net with SMTP id filter0042p3iad2-30527-5C00892D-6 2018-11-30 00:49:49.117258721 +0000 UTC m=+1133343.740733436 Received: from herokuapp.com (ec2-54-159-163-150.compute-1.amazonaws.com [54.159.163.150]) by ismtpd0030p1iad2.sendgrid.net (SG) with ESMTP id Vk-s7UwoSua3f94pXpCrvg for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2018 00:49:49.105 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2018 00:49:49 +0000 (UTC) From: Greg.mpls@gmail.com To: ruby-core@ruby-lang.org Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Redmine-MailingListIntegration-Message-Ids: 65577 X-Redmine-Project: ruby-trunk X-Redmine-Issue-Id: 15354 X-Redmine-Issue-Author: vo.x X-Redmine-Issue-Assignee: hsbt X-Redmine-Sender: MSP-Greg X-Mailer: Redmine X-Redmine-Host: bugs.ruby-lang.org X-Redmine-Site: Ruby Issue Tracking System X-Auto-Response-Suppress: All Auto-Submitted: auto-generated X-SG-EID: ync6xU2WACa70kv/Ymy4QrNMhiuLXJG8OTL2vJD1yS7OA5/TKaTOrzr4ZzO4K3rgla03D+U6RExiS6 /rA0sVx6G814RLZiEAuCiwxCP+mVTdj0HIYHuydAAJ9xac9J2Ix257y9m580ogErj5Kwc2Bhpb0DKm yrA4f5L6CoEi+qMnuhi/Rc/uNpWQQc4x6EIPWp6L9sdJIBf4HFJPaN0IdA== X-ML-Name: ruby-core X-Mail-Count: 90179 Subject: [ruby-core:90179] [Ruby trunk Bug#15354] Remove Bundler from StdLib X-BeenThere: ruby-core@ruby-lang.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Ruby developers List-Id: Ruby developers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: ruby-core-bounces@ruby-lang.org Sender: "ruby-core" Issue #15354 has been updated by MSP-Greg (Greg L). @colby Ok. I decided on the longer message. > snide comment Snide - 'derogatory or mocking in an indirect way'. @vo.x's comment is direct, and his point about the vendored libraries is valid. > (Bundler) has had to deal with lots of issues from the RubyGems/Ruby project Something just seems backward... Just a few minutes ago, I came across a test in RubyGems that had three nested unless/end pairs, and only the innermost had any code. So, I thought about a PR to clean it up; my first thought was who would ask 'what does this fix?'. Also in RG, IMHO, there's code where process x and process y have become so tangled that they need to be pulled apart to allow other code to work correctly. The tangling also mucks up testing. I've procrastinated just because... Conversely, here in ruby/ruby, the attitude is much more about improvement of any type. Moving on, what are your thoughts on: 1. In what way should ruby/RubyGems/Bundler be integrated? 2. What to do about the vendored/duplicated libraries? 3. Given your involvement in both Bundler & RubyGems, and assuming infinite resources, what should change? Thanks, Greg ---------------------------------------- Bug #15354: Remove Bundler from StdLib https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/15354#change-75302 * Author: vo.x (Vit Ondruch) * Status: Assigned * Priority: Normal * Assignee: hsbt (Hiroshi SHIBATA) * Target version: * ruby -v: ruby 2.6.0dev (2018-11-26 trunk 65990) [x86_64-linux] * Backport: 2.4: UNKNOWN, 2.5: UNKNOWN ---------------------------------------- [This is mostly a clone of #13978 which I opened a year ago. Unfortunately, the same points I mentioned there still hold true.] I understand that given that almost every Ruby user is using Bundler, it would be convenient for quite some people to have Bundler as part of StdLib. However, seeing two copies of Molinillo, each in a different version [1], [2], similarly to fileutils [3], [4], is a sign that things are not as they should be. Therefore, please consider removal of Bundler from StdLib unless upstream demonstrates it can maintain it properly. [1]: https://github.com/ruby/ruby/blob/trunk/lib/bundler/vendor/molinillo/lib/molinillo/gem_metadata.rb#L5 [2]: https://github.com/ruby/ruby/blob/trunk/lib/rubygems/resolver/molinillo/lib/molinillo/gem_metadata.rb#L4 [3]: https://github.com/ruby/ruby/blob/trunk/lib/bundler/vendor/fileutils/lib/fileutils.rb [4]: https://github.com/ruby/ruby/blob/trunk/lib/fileutils.rb -- https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/