From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Original-To: poffice@blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp Delivered-To: poffice@blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp Received: from kankan.nagaokaut.ac.jp (kankan.nagaokaut.ac.jp [133.44.2.24]) by blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id F20E619E004C for ; Fri, 22 Jan 2016 12:43:05 +0900 (JST) Received: from voscc.nagaokaut.ac.jp (voscc.nagaokaut.ac.jp [133.44.1.100]) by kankan.nagaokaut.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B4B1B5D901 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 2016 13:16:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from neon.ruby-lang.org (neon.ruby-lang.org [221.186.184.75]) by voscc.nagaokaut.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 689A418CC7B2 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 2016 13:16:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from [221.186.184.76] (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by neon.ruby-lang.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 212511205AE; Fri, 22 Jan 2016 13:16:49 +0900 (JST) X-Original-To: ruby-core@ruby-lang.org Delivered-To: ruby-core@ruby-lang.org Received: from mail-ob0-f180.google.com (mail-ob0-f180.google.com [209.85.214.180]) by neon.ruby-lang.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D4A0C1204B8 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 2016 13:16:44 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail-ob0-f180.google.com with SMTP id is5so53349795obc.0 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 2016 20:16:44 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; bh=5W71+/iy6uIhI1KSXiIke+78orLYU/Q9Bgxv4/JbSrQ=; b=gJiiTKsSpLhygu3zt2dyrTRLIvtLRMjozsgCrxO3tdiCuCkLSlfrG8skXj1c6rEE+U wGMHTw+IAtBEEOp4/kFCnMlQoOEkbp71WYCKCEc786dEnTAgCW/QVEdy5liDOvDCm/nq Cq/JkHMgs96WAe9skMjxFoVZL/NsKvM2OivbQYoCDywevM+4WqxMVh81XJPnpCGuP0Bm /WPlrhJPGJcfdsm3Qui1pvms0aZ5K0sB/5DoIzDUxyO9ykpyomChxoTwW1YQHD6mdNxZ NL31IW3umju/xry10F4Lct6HZpBKgmwke9/Zi6besSeYJ0f8WRp5mZGF67BMmeZPAKhl EiWw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:content-type; bh=5W71+/iy6uIhI1KSXiIke+78orLYU/Q9Bgxv4/JbSrQ=; b=chrlljfIE6f7cUoJGYny+NyxxI3yXKqPLTouE/VWx44+S/H9Fe7Qnx2rrySC9n0HsG IFVHVYmSqfyZkeVXrSWWWGIPywQR8cSHBwV2UaEu1oriPI82seAR1swZ8v2MmrbOp/5G 4M5PpiBCDeVkOF+Wg+wA+SzaIk7c8wG2FS9I77f4yOQyutZ1KMz2xSH+eCMpcW8Sj7K+ JtDzj4lqwdJj/nVkTh/jNGPQK/H+hqQWns45hS1G+JFkqwz0oot0F7ukoLSVka0ow0Ty /mj01hG7/UfT4KNvDZtgP7IAX/hTZsLiqk3E5rwWp3+TNpMvpgjNHjDwN8fhToJ+AKdx yXKA== X-Gm-Message-State: AG10YORwp5XAlABNuLqAcdpIDgdZ/jFH1ngo+jC59c49WY7eYfleboJsG7M6OUR+Jp6mWDriJZWQuy55p1/M4g== X-Received: by 10.182.206.38 with SMTP id ll6mr35489obc.49.1453436203308; Thu, 21 Jan 2016 20:16:43 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.202.211.72 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Jan 2016 20:16:23 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Austin Ziegler Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2016 23:16:23 -0500 Message-ID: To: Ruby developers X-ML-Name: ruby-core X-Mail-Count: 73107 Subject: [ruby-core:73107] Re: [Ruby trunk - Misc #12004] Code of Conduct X-BeenThere: ruby-core@ruby-lang.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Ruby developers List-Id: Ruby developers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1745543424==" Errors-To: ruby-core-bounces@ruby-lang.org Sender: "ruby-core" --===============1745543424== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8f83a7019a1acf0529e47cc2 --e89a8f83a7019a1acf0529e47cc2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 8:26 AM, wrote: > Issue #12004 has been updated by Chuck Remes. > > I am not in favor of the adoption of a CoC. > > If this solved a real problem, I would consider it as would any reasonabl= e > person. However, no one in this thread has been able to point to any > situations where a CoC (and specifically, *this* CoC) would have solved t= he > problem. Instead they say that we can't know if there are problems becaus= e > those marginalized people have avoided the community. Their claim is not > falsifiable. To me that makes the claim absolutely worthless. > The counter-claim is also not falsifiable (which essentially is that =E2=80=9Cbecause no one has claimed that this is a problem, it isn=E2=80=99= t a problem=E2=80=9D). I=E2=80=99m a software development manager in my day job now. I have to wor= k *very hard* to make sure that every single one of my developers is heard because they aren=E2=80=99t all bold and outspoken. It=E2=80=99s often a subtle thi= ng, but the effort *is* *real*. I agree with you about *this* CoC for Ruby, because there are organizations behind Ruby. Ruby itself should not have a CoC that applies to the repo (such as the Contributor Covenant or the =E2=80=9CCode of Merit=E2=80=9D no= nsense that some folks are proposing in its stead), but something that is a bit broader and written with knowledge that Matz is essentially a benevolent dictator for this community. -a --=20 Austin Ziegler =E2=80=A2 halostatue@gmail.com =E2=80=A2 austin@halostatue.c= a http://www.halostatue.ca/ =E2=80=A2 http://twitter.com/halostatue --e89a8f83a7019a1acf0529e47cc2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 8:26 AM, <git@chuckremes.com> wrote:
Issue #12004 has been updated by Chuck Rem= es.
=C2=A0
I am not in favor of the adoption of a CoC.

If this solved a real problem, I would consider it as would any reasonable = person. However, no one in this thread has been able to point to any situat= ions where a CoC (and specifically, *this* CoC) would have solved the probl= em. Instead they say that we can't know if there are problems because t= hose marginalized people have avoided the community. Their claim is not fal= sifiable. To me that makes the claim absolutely worthless.
=

The counter-claim is also not falsifiable (which essent= ially is that =E2=80=9Cbecause no one has claimed that this is a problem, i= t isn=E2=80=99t a problem=E2=80=9D). I=E2=80=99m a software development man= ager in my day job now. I have to work *very hard* to make sure that every = single one of my developers is heard because they aren=E2=80=99t all bold a= nd outspoken. It=E2=80=99s often a subtle thing, but the effort *is* *real*= .

I agree with you about *this* CoC for Ruby, beca= use there are organizations behind Ruby. Ruby itself should not have a CoC = that applies to the repo (such as the Contributor Covenant or the =E2=80=9C= Code of Merit=E2=80=9D nonsense that some folks are proposing in its stead)= , but something that is a bit broader and written with knowledge that Matz = is essentially a benevolent dictator for this community.

-a
--
Austin Ziegle= r =E2=80=A2 halos= tatue@gmail.com =E2=80=A2 austin@halostatue.ca
http://www.halostatue.ca/ =E2=80=A2 http://twitter.com/halostatu= e
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