From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Original-To: poffice@blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp Delivered-To: poffice@blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp Received: from kankan.nagaokaut.ac.jp (smtp.nagaokaut.ac.jp [133.44.2.24]) by blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEBDB19E0059 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 2016 17:06:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from voscc.nagaokaut.ac.jp (voscc.nagaokaut.ac.jp [133.44.1.100]) by kankan.nagaokaut.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3FFFB5D909 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 2016 17:40:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from neon.ruby-lang.org (neon.ruby-lang.org [221.186.184.75]) by voscc.nagaokaut.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20F9818CC7B2 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 2016 17:40:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from [221.186.184.76] (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by neon.ruby-lang.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF7EC120615; Fri, 29 Jan 2016 17:40:22 +0900 (JST) X-Original-To: ruby-core@ruby-lang.org Delivered-To: ruby-core@ruby-lang.org Received: from mail-yk0-f177.google.com (mail-yk0-f177.google.com [209.85.160.177]) by neon.ruby-lang.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B92E31205E1 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 2016 17:40:16 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail-yk0-f177.google.com with SMTP id r207so17786085ykd.2 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 2016 00:40:16 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=N/j5lqAWalCk/z35ys/sfupazKIk4IDnYj68eBKZscc=; b=tdnD6gMAJBOql7FAZMa6ovkLB1a0IJYxA6SLKVNK5rvMbF6tz+kUP8q1VaZo6p5SuC 4Xb8g5p7j5Ui7Y8hSiApsAOii9SxAiozDj4mN2eRZnyoYOSLy0K9w3Ptbc3VKK+naUv5 W1NLcuXxg2jpLIULLDGX02CoS036ZS2hXOHuTUGHe8jEo6XHfpaZLC3VehN/UvzTrXmQ VFgZVDwJ/ZPzWQ95S0dTo77ZWC7nD/PNM4Y3s/4QQBLspmpW6/pOvTSP5Qd8wosFw66v taYSTg/ooyQSNfR5UB12HEMv6x1DCOaWiECusNFOYIjuZGjg95JkKKuvx9G9nVj7Fqao 53Vg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=N/j5lqAWalCk/z35ys/sfupazKIk4IDnYj68eBKZscc=; b=Ci49j05Ma7jW/hn1tTqGdW27ag2jewYeGOEo/5n3yRv/AW1W7Zf1pss4K8t2D+c/pV 2UNlNi3mP/dhBPayV27o/2EMnF4lK5a2wmZja6NssOPQa+bmDDfS0jKE/WHbSPlSGJpn 3MGdkXmxPfk+cOudylMwTPb8MmNQ77bR+aDv54pLrgVdUuu/+zlj5ygne7cpQgL6SHX3 eipN6a2RVfkYxfkEbJ6ek/B5z1nBaXE1aasp36zEgLBMjQpvthVgDwSAtrI5fGcqxDI8 ig7iw+jKuQffv4oniEA2pu2/bLhuqKezRQ/Ck+mTSZ7aR37MW99XwhoOEPFGKbO/NhbE TS7g== X-Gm-Message-State: AG10YOQJ9rQPdIFm/LGfzsM4zoMWLVFm8Id4QClbWqJikuVipjju6U/LY9hYMwDP6/4tMlmQMQHvQTVUhCPKHg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.13.221.75 with SMTP id g72mr4270980ywe.157.1454056814335; Fri, 29 Jan 2016 00:40:14 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.129.148.66 with HTTP; Fri, 29 Jan 2016 00:40:14 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2016 11:40:14 +0300 Message-ID: From: Andrew Kirilenko To: Ruby developers X-ML-Name: ruby-core X-Mail-Count: 73573 Subject: [ruby-core:73573] Re: [Ruby trunk - Misc #12004] Code of Conduct X-BeenThere: ruby-core@ruby-lang.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Ruby developers List-Id: Ruby developers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0329623926==" Errors-To: ruby-core-bounces@ruby-lang.org Sender: "ruby-core" --===============0329623926== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=94eb2c071b6ce6e234052a74fbdd --94eb2c071b6ce6e234052a74fbdd Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >Andrew, please stop digging. Your hole is only getting deeper. I'd do what I see fit it this situation, thank you. And I'd do whatever it takes to protect things I care about (and I do care about Ruby). >1. You are trying, once again, to derail the conversation with something (in this case, the =E2=80=9CNo Code of Conduct=E2=80=9D) that does not actu= ally address any of the *very real* problems we have seen presented in the last two weeks. These problems arrived here with Coraline and her SJW friends for the first time within 20 years. If I'm wrong - just show me example of someone being treated differently due to his/her race, skin color, sex or whatever else not related to technical problem in question. Don't try to fix things which are not broken. >2. You cited a known hate-monger, Theodore Beale. Mr Beale (aka =E2=80=9C= Vox Day=E2=80=9D) has the dubious distinction of being the only person kicked o= ut of the SFWA for abuse of an SFWA platform to spread a racist, misogynistic message about another SFWA author. All of this weakens any argument you might actually have. (If you doubt me, read PZ Meyers on Beale.) Known by whom? By racist and sexist SJW group? This just adds points to his opinion. And yes, I did read http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/06/06/vox-day-is-one-sick-puppy= / this. You know what's funny? Personally, I don't like Theodore's position (as I despite christianity as much as any other religion) but I don't like angry lynch mobs even more. And please, interpret Coraline's "Thoughts on leaving technical mgmt of Ruby to Matz and delegating community mgmt to a separate org?" to me. Thank you. On Fri, Jan 29, 2016 at 8:27 AM, Austin Ziegler wrote: > Andrew, please stop digging. Your hole is only getting deeper. > > 1. You are trying, once again, to derail the conversation with something > (in this case, the =E2=80=9CNo Code of Conduct=E2=80=9D) that does not ac= tually address any > of the *very real* problems we have seen presented in the last two weeks. > > 2. You cited a known hate-monger, Theodore Beale. Mr Beale (aka =E2=80= =9CVox > Day=E2=80=9D) has the dubious distinction of being the only person kicked= out of > the SFWA for abuse of an SFWA platform to spread a racist, misogynistic > message about another SFWA author. All of this weakens any argument you > might actually have. (If you doubt me, read PZ Meyers on Beale.) > > It is possible to believe that a CoC is not necessary and argue so fairly > rationally (as Robert Klemme has done). It is not possible to do so while > repeating and spreading the sort of message that Beale promotes. It is no= t > possible to do so while saying that this is all the fault of =E2=80=9Cthe= SJWs=E2=80=9D who > want to take over Ruby from Matz and others. These are dark and emotional > arguments that cause great amounts of pain unnecessarily. > > Over the last two weeks, there have been posts by people=E2=80=94mostly, = but not > exclusively, trolls=E2=80=94who have demonstrated quite clearly that they= *aren=E2=80=99t* > adults and don=E2=80=99t know how to treat others without being racist, > exclusionary, or just plain asinine. This behaviour *clearly* says that > MINASWAN *isn=E2=80=99t* enough. I wish it were, but it clearly isn=E2=80= =99t. :( > > On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 2:38 PM, wrote: > >> Issue #12004 has been updated by Andrew Kirilenko. >> >> >> Yukihiro Matsumoto wrote: >> > OK, that's enough. >> > >> > We will set up some form of CoC in the future. Let me think for a whil= e >> which one we are going to choose. >> > >> > Matz. >> >> What about this one >> https://github.com/domgetter/NCoC/blob/master/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md >> >> Also, if any of you are not sure what's going on and who are all these >> nice people, please read >> http://www.voxday.net/mart/SJW_Attack_Survival_Guide.pdf >> >> ---------------------------------------- >> Misc #12004: Code of Conduct >> https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/12004#change-56767 >> >> * Author: Coraline Ada Ehmke >> * Status: Assigned >> * Priority: Normal >> * Assignee: Yukihiro Matsumoto >> ---------------------------------------- >> I am the creator of the Contributor Covenant, a code of conduct for Open >> Source projects. At last count there are over 13,000 projects on Github >> that have adopted it. This past year saw adoption of Contributor Covenan= t >> by a lot of very large, very visible projects, including Rails, Github's >> Atom text editor, Angular JS, bundler, curl, diaspora, discourse, Eclips= e, >> rspec, shoes, and rvm. The bundler team made code of conduct integration= an >> option in the gem creation workflow, putting it on par with license >> selection. Many open source language communities have already adopted th= e >> code of conduct, including Elixir, Mono, the .NET foundation, F#, and >> Apple's Swift. RubyTogether also adopted a policy to only fund Ruby >> projects that had a solid code of conduct in place. >> >> Right now in the PHP community there is a healthy debate about adopting >> the Contributor Covenant. Since it came from and has been so widely adop= ted >> by the Ruby community at large, I think it's time that we consider adopt= ing >> it for the core Ruby language as well. >> >> Our community prides itself on niceness. What a code of conduct does is >> define what we mean by nice. It states clearly that we value openness, >> courtesy, and compassion. That we care about and want contributions from >> people who may be different from us. That we pledge to respect all >> contributors regardless of their race, gender, sexual orientation, or ot= her >> factors. And it makes it clear that we are prepared to follow through on >> these values with action when and if an incident arises. >> >> I'm asking that we join with the larger Ruby community in supporting the >> adoption of the Contributor Covenant for the Ruby language. I think that >> this will be an important step forward and will ensure the continued >> welcoming and supportive environment around Ruby. You can read the full >> text of the Contributor Covenant at >> http://contributor-covenant.org/version/1/3/0/ and learn more at >> http://contributor-covenant.org/. >> >> Thanks for your consideration and I look forward to hearing your thought= s. >> >> >> ---Files-------------------------------- >> Screen Shot 2016-01-22 at 6.45.23 PM.png (595 KB) >> Ruby_Code_of_Conduct_Numbers.png (119 KB) >> Ruby_Code_of_Conduct_Discussion.png (143 KB) >> >> >> -- >> https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/ >> >> Unsubscribe: >> >> > > > > -- > Austin Ziegler =E2=80=A2 halostatue@gmail.com =E2=80=A2 austin@halostatue= .ca > http://www.halostatue.ca/ =E2=80=A2 http://twitter.com/halostatue > > > Unsubscribe: > > > --94eb2c071b6ce6e234052a74fbdd Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>Andrew, please stop d= igging. Your hole is only getting deeper.

I'= ;d do what I see fit it this situation, thank you. And I'd do whatever = it takes to protect things I care about (and I do care about Ruby).=C2=A0

=
>1. You are trying, once again, to derai= l the conversation with something (in this case, the =E2=80=9CNo Code of Co= nduct=E2=80=9D) that does not actually address any of the *very real* probl= ems we have seen presented in the last two weeks.

= These problems arrived here with Coraline and her SJW friends for the first= time within 20 years. If I'm wrong - just show me example of someone b= eing treated differently due to his/her race, skin color, sex or whatever e= lse not related to technical problem in question. Don't try to fix thin= gs which are not broken.=C2=A0

>2.=C2=A0 You cited a known hate-monger, = Theodore Beale. Mr Beale (aka =E2=80=9CVox Day=E2=80=9D) has the dubious di= stinction of being the only person kicked out of the SFWA for abuse of an S= FWA platform to spread a racist, misogynistic message about another SFWA au= thor. All of this weakens any argument you might actually have. (If you dou= bt me, read PZ Meyers on Beale.)

Known by whom? By racist and sexist SJW grou= p? This just adds points to his opinion. And yes, I did read=C2=A0http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/06/06/vox-day-is-one-sic= k-puppy/ this. You know what's funny? Personally, I don't like = Theodore's position (as I despite christianity as much as any other rel= igion) but I don't like angry lynch mobs even more.

And please, interpret Cor= aline's "Thoughts on leaving technical mgmt of Ruby to Matz and de= legating community mgmt to a separate org?" to me. Thank you.

On Fri, Jan 29, 2016= at 8:27 AM, Austin Ziegler <halostatue@gmail.com> wrote:=
Andrew, please stop digging. Your hol= e is only getting deeper.

1. You are trying, once again,= to derail the conversation with something (in this case, the =E2=80=9CNo C= ode of Conduct=E2=80=9D) that does not actually address any of the *very re= al* problems we have seen presented in the last two weeks.

2.=C2=A0 You cited a known hate-monger, Theodore Beale. Mr Beale (= aka =E2=80=9CVox Day=E2=80=9D) has the dubious distinction of being the onl= y person kicked out of the SFWA for abuse of an SFWA platform to spread a r= acist, misogynistic message about another SFWA author. All of this weakens = any argument you might actually have. (If you doubt me, read PZ Meyers on B= eale.)

It is possible to believe that a CoC i= s not necessary and argue so fairly rationally (as Robert Klemme has done).= It is not possible to do so while repeating and spreading the sort of mess= age that Beale promotes. It is not possible to do so while saying that this= is all the fault of =E2=80=9Cthe SJWs=E2=80=9D who want to take over Ruby = from Matz and others. These are dark and emotional arguments that cause gre= at amounts of pain unnecessarily.

Over the l= ast two weeks, there have been posts by people=E2=80=94mostly, but not excl= usively, trolls=E2=80=94who have demonstrated quite clearly that they *aren= =E2=80=99t* adults and don=E2=80=99t know how to treat others without being= racist, exclusionary, or just plain asinine. This behaviour *clearly* says= that MINASWAN *isn=E2=80=99t* enough. I wish it were, but it clearly isn= =E2=80=99t. :(

On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 2:38 PM, <andrew.kirilenko@gmail.com> wrote:
Issu= e #12004 has been updated by Andrew Kirilenko.


Yukihiro Matsumoto wrote:
> OK, that's enough.
>
> We will set up some form of CoC in the future. Let me think for a whil= e which one we are going to choose.
>
> Matz.

What about this one https://g= ithub.com/domgetter/NCoC/blob/master/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md

Also, if any of you are not sure what's going on and who are all these = nice people, please read http://www.voxday.n= et/mart/SJW_Attack_Survival_Guide.pdf

----------------------------------------
Misc #12004: Code of Conduct
https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/12004#c= hange-56767

* Author: Coraline Ada Ehmke
* Status: Assigned
* Priority: Normal
* Assignee: Yukihiro Matsumoto
----------------------------------------
I am the creator of the Contributor Covenant, a code of conduct for Open So= urce projects. At last count there are over 13,000 projects on Github that = have adopted it. This past year saw adoption of Contributor Covenant by a l= ot of very large, very visible projects, including Rails, Github's Atom= text editor, Angular JS, bundler, curl, diaspora, discourse, Eclipse, rspe= c, shoes, and rvm. The bundler team made code of conduct integration an opt= ion in the gem creation workflow, putting it on par with license selection.= Many open source language communities have already adopted the code of con= duct, including Elixir, Mono, the .NET foundation, F#, and Apple's Swif= t. RubyTogether also adopted a policy to only fund Ruby projects that had a= solid code of conduct in place.

Right now in the PHP community there is a healthy debate about adopting the= Contributor Covenant. Since it came from and has been so widely adopted by= the Ruby community at large, I think it's time that we consider adopti= ng it for the core Ruby language as well.

Our community prides itself on niceness. What a code of conduct does is def= ine what we mean by nice. It states clearly that we value openness, courtes= y, and compassion. That we care about and want contributions from people wh= o may be different from us. That we pledge to respect all contributors rega= rdless of their race, gender, sexual orientation, or other factors. And it = makes it clear that we are prepared to follow through on these values with = action when and if an incident arises.

I'm asking that we join with the larger Ruby community in supporting th= e adoption of the Contributor Covenant for the Ruby language. I think that = this will be an important step forward and will ensure the continued welcom= ing and supportive environment around Ruby. You can read the full text of t= he Contributor Covenant at http://contributor-covenant= .org/version/1/3/0/ and learn more at http://contributor-covenan= t.org/.

Thanks for your consideration and I look forward to hearing your thoughts.<= br>

---Files--------------------------------
Screen Shot 2016-01-22 at 6.45.23 PM.png (595 KB)
Ruby_Code_of_Conduct_Numbers.png (119 KB)
Ruby_Code_of_Conduct_Discussion.png (143 KB)


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