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Sun, 29 Nov 2015 14:56:35 +0900 (JST) Authentication-Results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp; Received: from [192.168.1.3] (60.42.129.117) by KAWPR01MB0132.jpnprd01.prod.outlook.com (10.161.27.13) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.331.20; Sun, 29 Nov 2015 05:22:30 +0000 To: Ruby developers , References: From: =?UTF-8?Q?Martin_J._D=c3=bcrst?= Organization: Aoyama Gakuin University Message-ID: <565A8B91.9050400@it.aoyama.ac.jp> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2015 14:22:25 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: [60.42.129.117] X-ClientProxiedBy: OS2PR01CA0016.jpnprd01.prod.outlook.com (25.161.74.154) To KAWPR01MB0132.jpnprd01.prod.outlook.com (25.161.27.13) X-Microsoft-Exchange-Diagnostics: 1; KAWPR01MB0132; 2:Qb6cu8UZx1pSFiJSl8nD8iepR9l6TASwjQS0bLzNxoXe/3oAqXyoXoxkGDHk8rSSlUqbMMTX40kx8VSW2MXmVSz2IgwvPeA7mrhlv2XabdZeuPCegBWUDzeDV08a6OQxDqQ1mDt7YQOyPtlao6n2NQ==; 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KAWPR01MB0132; 5:pw0+eN59XUe1ez9VsZWFRn44XxcAtw04srlYhTdpGq+LnYa5qmv7R4muhGNfypOSfJZ03sTk0iedIHIfJlXrJq0WYfS3hfHclydyNsedaxd+WRSTscjblREYsOiV0nZX3pSUDWjuicifZAZBaRzFPA==; 24:vf2QNypWXORVYM5I/+s0TeTwbvMsnBwweVRYOj7cXAWAqSVN88Ny4nWUghnoaqfR3H1FuFBZexbkmdNyKE8JuGd2ptDXxzKvjCXTLrPjyb4= SpamDiagnosticOutput: 1:23 SpamDiagnosticMetadata: NSPM X-OriginatorOrg: it.aoyama.ac.jp X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Nov 2015 05:22:30.2065 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: KAWPR01MB0132 X-ML-Name: ruby-core X-Mail-Count: 71727 Subject: [ruby-core:71727] Re: [Ruby trunk - Feature #11741] Migrate Ruby to Git from Subversion X-BeenThere: ruby-core@ruby-lang.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Ruby developers List-Id: Ruby developers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ruby-core-bounces@ruby-lang.org Sender: "ruby-core" Hello Jon, On 2015/11/29 01:20, me@jonathanmoss.me wrote: > Issue #11741 has been updated by Jon Moss. > > > Hi Eric, > > I think it's unreasonable to ask a website to degrade and work normally without any GUI or use of Javascript -- these are the core foundations of the web today, and in order to use the web, you must use these technologies. I think this is wrong. Graceful degradation has always been an important part of Web technology. So has Accessibility. If a Web site isn't as flashy or slick when switching off JavaScript (or CSS, or something else), that's just fine. However, if a Web site is unusable/very difficult to use if you don't use JavaScript, then that's a design/implementation problem that can and should be fixed. [This may not apply to all Web sites, e.g. not to in-browser gaming, but it definitely should apply to sites such as redmine/github/gitlab.] > I also think it's uncalled for to ask a website to work through a terminal window There are special Web browsers that take care of this. > -- again, this is not what the modern web was designed for. See above. > If you do need Gitlab to work without a GUI or JS, Gitlab has a great API and you can build a small Sinatra app for yourself to consume Gitlab's data. How would a blind user, or a user that's otherwise challenged, build a Sinatra app? Why would she have to build a Sinatra app just to cover for design mistakes of the creators of the Web site. > Most software projects these days (especially ones created in Ruby) do not use mailing lists for contributions. "do not" -> "do not only". Ruby uses mailing lists, and I guess we would accept a contribution on a mailing list if there were some interest in the contribution among the committers. > I am not trying to be rude by saying this, but I don't think the ideology of one person should be holding back a migration like this. I am happy to try and find common ground, but I think some of your requests are a little too much (example would be needing site to be viewable over terminal, with no JS). A Web site such as gitlab to be viewable and usable (not necessarily with exactly the same bells and whistles as in a graphical browser) in a terminal-based browser without JavaScript would just be to adhere to best Web application design practice, so I have strong difficulties to understand why such a request would be "too much". Regards, Martin.