From: Eric Wong <normalperson@yhbt.net>
To: ruby-core@ruby-lang.org
Subject: [ruby-core:88484] Re: [Ruby trunk Feature#13618] [PATCH] auto fiber schedule for rb_wait_for_single_fd and rb_waitpid
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 17:47:02 +0000 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20180814174702.GA32360@dcvr> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <d795e7ea-0d19-7a2d-c4cc-80b4632269f6@atdot.net>
Koichi Sasada <ko1@atdot.net> wrote:
> On 2018/08/14 9:42, Eric Wong wrote:
> > I am thinking of adding preemption support to this feature for
> > compatibility with 1.8
>
> So that "auto-fiber" proposal is to provide green threads like Ruby 1.8?
Yes; this was always the idea.
> Like:
> ```
> model 1: Userlevel Thread
> Same as traditional ruby thread.
> ```
> in thread.c comment (I wrote 13 years ago!).
>
> I don't against this idea, but I think it is hard to select these options by
> Ruby programmers. I think changing Thread implementation model from native
> thread (1:1 model) to green thread mode (1:N model) is better for Ruby
> programmers.
No, I want to keep current Thread 1:1 model because it is useful
for filesystem operations and some CPU/memory intensive tasks (zlib).
Changing "Thread" now to 1:N would also break code written for 1.9..2.5
1:N model is good for most network operations (high latency, low throughput).
> To change them, we need to discuss pros. and cons. of them carefully. There
> are several good points (the biggest advantage of 1:1 model is friendly for
> outer libraries) but are bad points (1:1 model has performance penalties,
> and recent glibc malloc arena issues and so on).
Agreed.
> I don't think it is a good idea to choose such internal implementation by
> Ruby programmers. ... easy?
I think it is necessary to give that control to programmers.
We can educate them on pros and cons of each and to use them
in combination.
```
1:1 + C-ext parallelism for SMP systems (example: zlib)
+ filesystem parallelism (no non-blocking I/O on FS ops)
+ external library compatibility
+ compatibility with 1.9..2.5 code
- high memory use (malloc arenas, kernel structs)
- kernel resource limitations (Process::RLIMIT_NPROC)
1:N + C10K problem (or C100K :P)
+ compatibility with old 1.8 designs
+ low memory and resource use
(malloc and kernel never sees extra data structures)
- cannot take advantage of SMP or multiple filesystems alone
```
The key is a programmer may combine 1:1 and 1:N for different
parts of the program flow. So where the program is bottlenecked
on filesystem, it can rely on 1:1 behavior, but when the program
is waiting on slow network traffic, it can rely on 1:N behavior
For example: I have 4 filesystems, I might have 32 native threads
(8 threads/FS to keep kernel IO scheduler busy).
But I will still serve 100K network clients with 100K 1:N threads
and that can even use 1 native thread.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2018-08-14 17:47 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 173+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
[not found] <redmine.issue-13618.20170601001407@ruby-lang.org>
2017-06-01 0:14 ` [ruby-core:81492] [Ruby trunk Feature#13618] [PATCH] auto fiber schedule for rb_wait_for_single_fd and rb_waitpid normalperson
2017-06-01 0:36 ` [ruby-core:81493] " Eric Wong
2017-06-29 6:11 ` [ruby-core:81826] " Eric Wong
2018-08-27 20:27 ` [ruby-core:88695] " Eric Wong
2018-09-01 13:13 ` [ruby-core:88800] " Eric Wong
2018-09-02 9:24 ` [ruby-core:88806] " Eric Wong
2018-09-12 20:27 ` [ruby-core:88961] " Eric Wong
2018-11-14 22:03 ` [ruby-core:89799] Thread::Light#raise and Thread::Light#kill Eric Wong
2018-11-20 8:44 ` [ruby-core:89900] Thread::Light patch against r65832 Eric Wong
2018-11-20 10:20 ` [ruby-core:89904] " Koichi Sasada
2018-11-20 15:15 ` [ruby-core:89909] " Eric Wong
2018-11-21 10:59 ` [ruby-core:89920] " Eric Wong
2018-12-15 12:19 ` [ruby-core:90546] Re: [Ruby trunk Feature#13618] [PATCH] auto fiber schedule for rb_wait_for_single_fd and rb_waitpid Eric Wong
2017-06-01 2:15 ` [ruby-core:81495] " ko1
2017-06-01 9:18 ` [ruby-core:81500] " Eric Wong
2017-06-01 5:48 ` [ruby-core:81498] " ko1
2017-06-01 14:40 ` [ruby-core:81507] " ko1
2017-06-01 21:51 ` [ruby-core:81514] " Eric Wong
2017-06-02 18:05 ` [ruby-core:81537] " eregontp
2017-06-02 23:18 ` [ruby-core:81543] " Eric Wong
2017-06-09 8:15 ` [ruby-core:81631] " samuel
2017-06-09 20:32 ` [ruby-core:81643] " Eric Wong
2017-06-14 2:13 ` [ruby-core:81672] " samuel
2017-06-14 2:49 ` [ruby-core:81674] " Eric Wong
2017-06-15 1:56 ` [ruby-core:81687] " samuel
2017-06-15 20:28 ` [ruby-core:81695] " Eric Wong
2017-06-19 13:17 ` [ruby-core:81721] " samuel
2017-06-20 19:08 ` [ruby-core:81732] " Eric Wong
2017-07-13 8:37 ` [ruby-core:82028] " ko1
2017-07-13 22:31 ` [ruby-core:82040] " Eric Wong
2017-07-31 9:19 ` [ruby-core:82214] " samuel
2017-07-31 9:21 ` [ruby-core:82215] " samuel
2017-08-30 3:16 ` [ruby-core:82518] " mame
2017-08-31 5:58 ` [ruby-core:82552] " Eric Wong
2017-09-12 5:40 ` [ruby-core:82756] " Eric Wrong
2017-09-28 1:06 ` [ruby-core:83034] " Eric Wrong
2017-12-07 4:30 ` [ruby-core:84118] " Eric Wong
2017-12-10 22:30 ` [ruby-core:84149] " samuel
2017-12-11 1:37 ` [ruby-core:84153] " Eric Wong
2018-01-23 11:35 ` [ruby-core:84980] [Ruby trunk Feature#13618][Assigned] " hsbt
2018-01-23 17:31 ` [ruby-core:85012] " Eric Wong
2018-01-24 21:51 ` [ruby-core:85081] " Eric Wong
2018-01-24 22:01 ` [ruby-core:85082] " Eric Wong
2018-01-25 1:13 ` [ruby-core:85087] " Daniel Ferreira
2018-01-28 14:09 ` [ruby-core:85181] " Koichi Sasada
2018-01-28 20:00 ` [ruby-core:85189] " Eric Wong
2018-01-28 14:01 ` [ruby-core:85180] " Koichi Sasada
2018-01-28 11:02 ` [ruby-core:85173] " Eric Wong
2018-01-28 14:32 ` [ruby-core:85183] " Koichi Sasada
2018-01-25 1:15 ` [ruby-core:85088] [Ruby trunk Feature#13618] " danieldasilvaferreira
2018-01-25 4:34 ` [ruby-core:85094] " Eric Wong
2018-01-25 5:06 ` [ruby-core:85095] " Daniel Ferreira
2018-01-26 10:16 ` [ruby-core:85128] " samuel
2018-01-26 19:13 ` [ruby-core:85136] " Eric Wong
2018-01-26 20:31 ` [ruby-core:85138] " Daniel Ferreira
2018-01-26 21:36 ` [ruby-core:85139] " Eric Wong
2018-01-27 1:08 ` [ruby-core:85140] " hsbt
2018-01-27 1:17 ` [ruby-core:85141] " danieldasilvaferreira
2018-01-27 3:45 ` [ruby-core:85144] " danieldasilvaferreira
2018-01-28 10:47 ` [ruby-core:85171] " Eric Wong
2018-01-27 23:34 ` [ruby-core:85162] " merch-redmine
2018-01-28 0:02 ` [ruby-core:85163] " danieldasilvaferreira
2018-01-28 0:33 ` [ruby-core:85164] " danieldasilvaferreira
2018-01-28 10:54 ` [ruby-core:85172] " Eric Wong
2018-01-28 5:20 ` [ruby-core:85168] " sam.saffron
2018-01-28 10:41 ` [ruby-core:85170] " Eric Wong
2018-01-28 12:29 ` [ruby-core:85174] " danieldasilvaferreira
2018-01-28 17:50 ` [ruby-core:85186] " danieldasilvaferreira
2018-01-28 20:18 ` [ruby-core:85190] " Eric Wong
2018-01-28 20:43 ` [ruby-core:85191] " danieldasilvaferreira
2018-01-28 21:19 ` [ruby-core:85193] " Eric Wong
2018-01-29 0:39 ` [ruby-core:85199] " sam.saffron
2018-01-29 4:42 ` [ruby-core:85204] " Eric Wong
2018-01-29 5:06 ` [ruby-core:85206] " sam.saffron
2018-01-29 5:14 ` [ruby-core:85207] " Koichi Sasada
2018-01-29 9:48 ` [ruby-core:85217] " Eric Wong
2018-01-29 5:38 ` [ruby-core:85209] " sam.saffron
2018-01-29 20:56 ` [ruby-core:85235] " shannonskipper
2018-01-29 21:28 ` [ruby-core:85236] " sam.saffron
2018-01-29 22:23 ` [ruby-core:85237] " Eric Wong
2018-01-31 2:48 ` [ruby-core:85273] " samuel
2018-02-02 5:46 ` [ruby-core:85335] " sam.saffron
2018-02-02 6:22 ` [ruby-core:85336] " Eric Wong
2018-02-03 1:36 ` [ruby-core:85353] " sam.saffron
2018-02-03 9:33 ` [ruby-core:85362] " Eric Wong
2018-02-04 6:14 ` [ruby-core:85371] " jjyruby
2018-02-05 21:42 ` [ruby-core:85417] " Eric Wong
2018-02-08 0:25 ` [ruby-core:85472] " sam.saffron
2018-02-13 22:39 ` [ruby-core:85531] " Eric Wong
2018-02-15 3:22 ` [ruby-core:85575] " samuel
2018-02-15 4:02 ` [ruby-core:85576] " Eric Wong
2018-02-15 13:13 ` [ruby-core:85585] " samuel
2018-02-20 6:42 ` [ruby-core:85674] " matz
2018-02-20 9:06 ` [ruby-core:85686] " Eric Wong
2018-02-21 1:52 ` [ruby-core:85704] " Koichi Sasada
2018-02-21 8:07 ` [ruby-core:85726] " Eric Wong
2018-02-21 8:23 ` [ruby-core:85727] " Koichi Sasada
2018-02-21 14:55 ` [ruby-core:85732] " jjyruby
2018-02-28 19:25 ` [ruby-core:85868] " keystonelemur
2018-03-13 2:57 ` [ruby-core:86092] " samuel
2018-04-21 11:23 ` [ruby-core:86639] " Eric Wong
2018-04-26 4:57 ` [ruby-core:86689] " samuel
2018-04-26 6:01 ` [ruby-core:86691] " Eric Wong
2018-04-30 1:24 ` [ruby-core:86768] " samuel
2018-04-30 10:25 ` [ruby-core:86774] " Eric Wong
2018-04-30 1:37 ` [ruby-core:86769] " samuel
2018-04-30 10:47 ` [ruby-core:86775] " Eric Wong
2018-05-02 5:20 ` [ruby-core:86821] " samuel
2018-05-02 7:54 ` [ruby-core:86826] " Eric Wong
2018-05-02 8:38 ` [ruby-core:86829] " samuel
2018-05-02 10:56 ` [ruby-core:86832] " Eric Wong
2018-05-02 23:36 ` [ruby-core:86850] " samuel
2018-05-03 1:15 ` [ruby-core:86853] " Eric Wong
2018-05-05 13:06 ` [ruby-core:86910] " samuel
2018-05-06 3:03 ` [ruby-core:86915] " Eric Wong
2018-05-07 11:39 ` [ruby-core:86929] " samuel
2018-05-10 20:06 ` [ruby-core:86972] " Eric Wong
2018-05-08 5:25 ` [ruby-core:86942] " samuel
2018-05-08 6:40 ` [ruby-core:86943] " samuel
2018-05-08 7:01 ` [ruby-core:86944] " samuel
2018-05-10 21:09 ` [ruby-core:86973] " Eric Wong
2018-05-11 2:09 ` [ruby-core:86976] " samuel
2018-06-13 1:16 ` [ruby-core:87484] " Eric Wong
2018-06-18 0:59 ` [ruby-core:87504] " Eric Wong
2018-07-04 7:37 ` [ruby-core:87776] " funny.falcon
2018-07-04 8:45 ` [ruby-core:87779] " samuel
2018-07-04 16:40 ` [ruby-core:87786] " funny.falcon
2018-07-05 7:20 ` [ruby-core:87803] " funny.falcon
2018-07-05 8:43 ` [ruby-core:87810] " funny.falcon
2018-07-05 9:35 ` [ruby-core:87811] " samuel
2018-07-05 18:12 ` [ruby-core:87818] " funny.falcon
2018-07-05 21:55 ` [ruby-core:87822] " samuel
2018-07-06 7:48 ` [ruby-core:87835] " funny.falcon
2018-07-06 9:16 ` [ruby-core:87837] " samuel
2018-07-06 18:10 ` [ruby-core:87839] " funny.falcon
2018-07-06 21:11 ` [ruby-core:87840] " Eric Wong
2018-08-08 1:21 ` [ruby-core:88331] " samuel
2018-08-08 8:48 ` [ruby-core:88350] " Eric Wong
2018-08-08 11:14 ` [ruby-core:88352] " Matthew Kerwin
2018-08-09 8:04 ` [ruby-core:88374] " samuel
2018-08-09 8:25 ` [ruby-core:88376] " samuel
2018-08-09 8:34 ` [ruby-core:88378] " Eric Wong
2018-08-10 9:33 ` [ruby-core:88433] " ko1
2018-08-14 0:42 ` [ruby-core:88467] " Eric Wong
2018-08-14 8:22 ` [ruby-core:88476] " Koichi Sasada
2018-08-14 17:47 ` Eric Wong [this message]
2018-08-10 11:45 ` [ruby-core:88437] " samuel
2018-08-14 9:00 ` [ruby-core:88478] " danieldasilvaferreira
2018-08-14 18:25 ` [ruby-core:88486] " Eric Wong
2018-09-04 21:36 ` [ruby-core:88838] " Greg.mpls
2018-09-05 21:47 ` [ruby-core:88873] " Eric Wong
2018-09-13 8:17 ` [ruby-core:88989] " matz
2018-09-13 9:18 ` [ruby-core:88992] " Eric Wong
2018-09-13 16:23 ` [ruby-core:88999] " shevegen
2018-09-21 17:58 ` [ruby-core:89120] " shannonskipper
2018-09-28 2:35 ` [ruby-core:89204] " Eric Wong
2018-11-20 20:58 ` [ruby-core:89913] " shevegen
2018-11-22 1:28 ` [ruby-core:89939] " me
2018-11-22 2:14 ` [ruby-core:89943] " Eric Wong
2018-11-22 10:40 ` [ruby-core:89968] Thread::Light updated for r65925 (sleep fix) Eric Wong
2018-11-28 11:05 ` [ruby-core:90115] Thread::Light r66072 Eric Wong
2018-11-22 15:40 ` [ruby-core:89978] [Ruby trunk Feature#13618] [PATCH] auto fiber schedule for rb_wait_for_single_fd and rb_waitpid me
2018-11-28 10:22 ` [ruby-core:90111] " matz
2018-11-28 10:44 ` [ruby-core:90112] " Eric Wong
2018-11-28 12:19 ` [ruby-core:90117] " takashikkbn
2018-11-28 19:51 ` [ruby-core:90134] " Eric Wong
2018-11-28 20:07 ` [ruby-core:90136] " samuel
2018-11-29 0:16 ` [ruby-core:90141] " Eric Wong
2018-11-29 11:26 ` [ruby-core:90161] Thread::Light#run and Thread::Light#wakeup Eric Wong
2019-01-01 22:58 ` [ruby-core:90846] [Ruby trunk Feature#13618] [PATCH] auto fiber schedule for rb_wait_for_single_fd and rb_waitpid me
2019-01-04 14:49 ` [ruby-core:90890] " Eric Wong
2019-02-13 9:44 ` [ruby-core:91528] Re: Technical question on ruby Thread::Light scheduling Eric Wong
2019-05-07 7:24 ` [ruby-core:92579] [Ruby trunk Feature#13618] [PATCH] auto fiber schedule for rb_wait_for_single_fd and rb_waitpid shevegen
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