From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Original-To: poffice@blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp Delivered-To: poffice@blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp Received: from kankan.nagaokaut.ac.jp (kankan.nagaokaut.ac.jp [133.44.2.24]) by blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71F8519C0465 for ; Sun, 29 Nov 2015 06:54:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from voscc.nagaokaut.ac.jp (voscc.nagaokaut.ac.jp [133.44.1.100]) by kankan.nagaokaut.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57A20B5D8A5 for ; Sun, 29 Nov 2015 07:26:05 +0900 (JST) Received: from neon.ruby-lang.org (neon.ruby-lang.org [221.186.184.75]) by voscc.nagaokaut.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81D6F18CC7B1 for ; Sun, 29 Nov 2015 07:26:05 +0900 (JST) Received: from [221.186.184.76] (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by neon.ruby-lang.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23E18120573; Sun, 29 Nov 2015 07:25:52 +0900 (JST) X-Original-To: ruby-core@ruby-lang.org Delivered-To: ruby-core@ruby-lang.org Received: from dcvr.yhbt.net (dcvr.yhbt.net [64.71.152.64]) by neon.ruby-lang.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC2091204E2 for ; Sun, 29 Nov 2015 07:25:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from localhost (dcvr.yhbt.net [127.0.0.1]) by dcvr.yhbt.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEB202044B; Sat, 28 Nov 2015 22:25:37 +0000 (UTC) Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2015 22:25:37 +0000 From: Eric Wong To: Ruby developers Message-ID: <20151128222537.GA28818@dcvr.yhbt.net> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-ML-Name: ruby-core X-Mail-Count: 71725 Subject: [ruby-core:71725] Re: [Ruby trunk - Feature #11741] Migrate Ruby to Git from Subversion X-BeenThere: ruby-core@ruby-lang.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Ruby developers List-Id: Ruby developers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ruby-core-bounces@ruby-lang.org Sender: "ruby-core" me@jonathanmoss.me wrote: > I think it's unreasonable to ask a website to degrade and work > normally without any GUI or use of Javascript -- these are the core > foundations of the web today, and in order to use the web, you must > use these technologies. I also think it's uncalled for to ask a > website to work through a terminal window -- again, this is not what > the modern web was designed for. I have no interest in a "modern web" which requires hundreds of megabytes of memory to exchange small pieces of text. That is discriminatory to users who cannot afford to upgrade. Ruby isn't known for being memory-efficient, but nearly all of my Ruby processes are under 50MB of RAM, most are under 20MB. Ruby certainly never requires a GUI to run; thousands of servers run Ruby that way. Given an Internet connection, anything that can run Ruby should be able to contribute to it. And given things like NoScript are popular, so I would say working without JS is still important. > If you do need Gitlab to work without > a GUI or JS, Gitlab has a great API and you can build a small Sinatra > app for yourself to consume Gitlab's data. Maybe that's an option; but signing up isn't intuitive. I tried signing up for GitLab.com with w3m and I see 4 unlabeled fields which requires manually inspecting each element to know what it is. The terms of service are less strict than GitHub (a good thing); I would assume any self-hosted GitLab instance would not have to abide by the same laws which govern GitLab B.V. Redmine at https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/ has no terms-of-service at all and the signup is clearly labeled. > Most software projects these days (especially ones created in Ruby) do > not use mailing lists for contributions. Only the very large ones, > like Git and Linux as you have mentioned previously, use mailing lists > for contributions. I think using a mailing list as a way to accept > contributions would create a very large learning curve for beginners, > and would increase the bar for knowledge needed to be able to > contribute. I don't agree with you that just because Ruby would be > changing to Git, "we ought to adopt the workflows git developers > themselves use." I don't think the toolset that the core Git > developers use would be appropriate here, since Ruby is something > that's much higher up the technical stack (more abstractions). You're right about the current state of things. But do you wonder why projects like git and Linux have attracted so many contributors? Perhaps the lack of registration barrier has something to do with it. Back in the early days, git was heavily implemented in shell and Perl scripts which were very high-level. I wouldn't say Ruby is any higher up the technical stack than using the git plumbing. > I think using something like Gitlab, as compared to Github, is > compromise enough for a distributed system, and something that would > meet your demands. I am not trying to be rude by saying this, but I > don't think the ideology of one person should be holding back a > migration like this. I am happy to try and find common ground, but I > think some of your requests are a little too much (example would be > needing site to be viewable over terminal, with no JS). I have no more influence in this matter than you do. In fact, I have always refused to ever have any more influence than anybody else, anywhere. And maybe GitLab works reasonably well from a terminal. Hopefully it stays that way, maybe we'll know in a few years. OTOH, I'm really not sure it's worth changing two things at once is worth it. There's a bunch of Redmine-specific tools the maintainers use (I haven't checked in depth); and as I said before: Redmine works with git, too. So perhaps migrate to git first and stick with Redmine for now.