From: Eric Wong <firstname.lastname@example.org> To: email@example.com Subject: [ruby-core:69995] Re: [Ruby trunk - Feature #11339] [Open] [PATCH] io.c: avoid kwarg parsing in C API Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 07:01:42 +0000 Message-ID: <20150716070142.GA11462@dcvr.yhbt.net> (raw) In-Reply-To: <55A72930.firstname.lastname@example.org> SASADA Koichi <email@example.com> wrote: > On 2015/07/16 4:41, Eric Wong wrote: > > firstname.lastname@example.org wrote: > >> Feature #11339: [PATCH] io.c: avoid kwarg parsing in C API > >> https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/11339 > > > >> Note: I plan to followup commits for other *_nonblock methods > >> Eventually, I even wish to deprecate rb_scan_args :D > >> > >> For what it's worth, I'm more excited about this change than usual > >> and hope to use prelude.rb more. > > > > ko1/nobu/akr/others: any comments on this? > > > > My main concern is increased parse time from prelude during startup; > > but we may translate prelude to iseq array and use rb_iseq_load, too. > > The parser seems to be the worst offender for startup performance > > nowadays. > > We have some ideas to solve this issue. We discussed about solutions. > > Known problems about C-methods parameters: > (P1) slow to parse kwargs with Hash > (P2) difficult to write scan_args > (P3) C-methods can't support Method#parameters Thank you for response. > Solutions: > > (1) Introduce wrapping Ruby methods into prelude.rb (your idea) > Pros. Easy to introduce. > Solves (P1-3). > Cons. Increase parse time at Ruby launch. We cannot avoid parsing Ruby :) So I want to try to make parsing faster. Unfortunately, my parser knowledge is not much right now. > (2) Introduce new API to declare Ruby-like parameters for C-APIs > > like: rb_define_method(klass, "xyzzy", klass_xyzzy, -1) > > (2-1) > -> rb_defnie_method_??(klass, "xyzzy", klass_xyzzy, > "(m1, m2, o1=nil, o2=nil, > *r, p1, p2, k1: 1, k2: 2)") OK, I had the same idea like this, too. But I do not want to introduce a new C API. IMHO, C API should be smaller, not bigger. > (3) Introduce new IDL (Interface Definition Language) This may be OK... I don't see a big advantage over (1). > (4) Introduce new IDL like Ricsin > > I made a system calls Ricsin, which enable to embed C code into Ruby code. I think this is too ugly. One reason I like Ruby + (limited) C use is relatively good separation between the different languages. Working on C-ext is mostly normal C, and not some weird in-between thing like Perl XS (gross!). Existing C programmers do not need to learn a lot of new things to work with current CRuby. I think it is important that we can use C tools (gdb, ctags, sparse, etc...) can work without modification. But I still want to reduce C and use more Ruby. > I'm okay to introduce (1) because it is easy and practical. OK, thank you. I will commit (1) this week and work on more prelude.rb for other IO/Socket kwargs methods. > If we can make (2)-(4), then we can replace from (1) to new mechanism. > BTW, I'm working on making AOT compilation support (it will be continued > to (3) or (4)). Recent rb_iseq_t changes were for this purpose. So that > prelude.rb is nice benchmark for me. I want to speed up Ruby parsing + startup in general, too. Along the lines of AOT: I also consider having something like ccache (self-managing size, only in $HOME, hashing-based) using rb_iseq_load. I don't want to pollute users disk with too many compiled files; and it should use hashing so we may tweak formats/architectures and not worry about path conflicts with concurrently-installed Ruby versions. We already have too many bug reports because C-exts/objs get shared.  Fwiw, I like Rubinius philosophy a lot. However, the non-Free contribution platform and eventual implementation (slow startup time, "Ruby environment" vs being "another *nix tool" which CRuby/Perl are) put me off.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2015-07-16 6:33 UTC|newest] Thread overview: 22+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top [not found] <email@example.com> 2015-07-07 21:59 ` [ruby-core:69892] " normalperson 2015-07-15 19:41 ` [ruby-core:69983] " Eric Wong 2015-07-16 3:46 ` [ruby-core:69990] " SASADA Koichi 2015-07-16 7:01 ` Eric Wong [this message] 2015-07-16 9:17 ` [ruby-core:69999] " SASADA Koichi 2015-10-09 23:35 ` [ruby-core:71035] " Eric Wong 2015-11-10 22:27 ` [ruby-core:71435] " Eric Wong 2015-12-02 2:23 ` [ruby-core:71789] " Eric Wong 2015-11-11 5:20 ` [ruby-core:71439] [Ruby trunk - Feature #11339] " matz 2015-11-12 2:03 ` [ruby-core:71459] " Eric Wong 2015-11-12 9:53 ` [ruby-core:71462] " Eric Wong 2015-11-18 2:07 ` [ruby-core:71539] " Eric Wong 2015-11-13 4:18 ` [ruby-core:71473] " Eric Wong 2015-11-13 5:46 ` [ruby-core:71478] " SASADA Koichi 2015-11-13 7:03 ` [ruby-core:71479] " Eric Wong 2015-12-27 22:49 ` [ruby-core:72527] " headius 2015-12-27 23:00 ` [ruby-core:72528] " headius 2015-12-27 23:40 ` [ruby-core:72529] " Eric Wong 2015-12-28 0:13 ` [ruby-core:72530] " headius 2015-12-28 1:12 ` [ruby-core:72532] " Eric Wong 2015-12-28 0:22 ` [ruby-core:72531] " headius 2015-12-28 1:50 ` [ruby-core:72535] " headius
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