From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on dcvr.yhbt.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-ASN: AS8560 212.227.0.0/16 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.3 required=3.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2,SPF_PASS shortcircuit=no autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.15]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by dcvr.yhbt.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9BA011F859; Mon, 22 Aug 2016 13:18:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from virtualbox ([37.24.141.250]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx002) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0M1Ee8-1bHoFo0dwW-00t9B3; Mon, 22 Aug 2016 15:18:04 +0200 Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 15:18:03 +0200 (CEST) From: Johannes Schindelin X-X-Sender: virtualbox@virtualbox To: Eric Wong cc: Stefan Beller , meta@public-inbox.org, git@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: Working with public-inbox.org [Was: [PATCH] rev-parse: respect core.hooksPath in --git-path] In-Reply-To: <20160819223547.GB16646@dcvr> Message-ID: References: <20160818204902.GA1670@starla> <20160819223547.GB16646@dcvr> User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (DEB 67 2015-01-07) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:3GjZg1VUMvD7d8DVJrS7sMedEDV1qy6q12ntwtbYcSiUQdo9kWH w/Afp451MoGah26Ik7j0Jz/eA+7eFDOA9jVHoy8Po3k9ZhiQ2NLCREtg+S+0kWM5vNpPugO 4fKsf89ipkf4UvxwpRUixvgXuAr1GpNHzmI5Bb99tk5rnm1RinG3B36E+rT6qSwaZq/v0hK paFyhzu/QE7PYizbGxrHw== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:wdKGrxNIGYQ=:4dTafKCfqg69G4n5efLFLu 2DHv/FLMszuAlNWSZmzI9sBgwdpjsBK9QOuTAuQYTu+TUI6o7Y27xLXyOXlzRZOP++TAit80a pCjI7kxAJNmt8jDfqoTRs3Y+m/ysUfuBgq/4G41TMKJitqOX10dHBV1kJvZGwdgcr26nFmDGU X6QCXC1iqGj1JG/WE+jmUYN/V6oaMPo9j//QBEg1SEe0I2jJDxYimMR8f+c1eehJDAsRHEA1C oGEW0bwCTBxMAs4nhLo9aQs8ObyjUaEKaiQEr0EXNzv2FpnI+O7775B+8ArCvBWvvtsqJqU5M wuwYwVFVtOYa0Jd6rvKsbjq2nnzoJgMBNDONmtbgr5ijoRjjujw/i9iNEsEOkznOQ0W3XMmoa +HtXwT+iMfyFa+7OCIanuWTZ99/B2LX7MU+UY0sFKeJJFQDu5r+zHghBItbIQuqcegFXtpgbn lWCqgAsBG+SfkzeDls38w7x96J+cVPXc3qvEngTzvPGKq2QmjxBvXgFBr9AdS5/yb6Gr32DK3 iNydBi4DSXT4vY2jBs2kibphjzO9L+qfZx9tpi8/BKHq2ljIrbQelUmqG2Oh450evHtvX+Tbs 67ms70GUqO/ijpRhqVQ5H+EL2c42ocXaN1PPrO6Q/kEvGFKtNpPRlnnvBNW8sxAvBglsRjeAN NG/q90Om5wJeFLe2jTtCIA716F5Vh3/WId9tv5NopF0HSkx/YouJdi92F+ATG3mgXLEAKbXNZ aCyQQTQQy6YC/69BcChV34WfaGJNn3nHiAX1FppebvzVpMOerKTyeUm8+13FyKOkU4eYDkaCC UgN9c+r List-Id: Hi Eric, On Fri, 19 Aug 2016, Eric Wong wrote: > Johannes Schindelin wrote: > > On Thu, 18 Aug 2016, Eric Wong wrote: > > > Johannes Schindelin wrote: > > > > > > > Old dogs claim the mail list-approach works for them. Nope. > > > > Doesn't. Else you would not have written all those custom > > > > scripts. > > > > > > git and cogito started as a bunch of custom scripts, too. > > > > The difference is that neither git nor cogito were opinionated. Those > > custom scripts are. They are for one particular workflow, with one > > particular mail client, with a strong bias to a Unix-y environment. > > > > I work really hard to make Git for Windows as easy and fun to use as > > possible. I just wish that we were working together to make it as easy > > and fun to contribute to Git, too. > > I guess this is a fundamental difference between *nix and Windows > culture. I do not understand how you get from "I wish to make it fun to contribute to Git" to "there is a fundamental difference between *nix and Windows culture". > I know Windows users have major performance problems with > shell scripts; That's because shell scripting is not native to Windows. I wish Linux had a Powershell, allowing for decent scripting that does not try to smoosh everything into a line-based text format. (Of course, since last week, Linux does have a Powershell.) Powershell is blazing fast, by the way, and not as ridiculously limited in its expressibility as shell scripting. But all of this is digressing from the original topic. I do not think this is a productive. > > We do not even have a section on Outlook in our SubmittingPatches. > > > > Okay, if not the most popular mail client, then web mail? Nope, nope, > > nope. No piping *at all* to external commands from there. > > > > So you basically slam the door shut on the vast majority of email users. > > Users have a choice to use a more scriptable mail client > (but I guess the OS nudges users towards monolithic tools) You call that choice. Are you serious? > > That is not leaving much choice to the users in my book. > > Users of alpine, gnus, mutt, sylpheed, thunderbird, kmail, > roundcube, squirelmail, etc. can all download the source, hack, > fix and customize things. It's easier with smaller software, > of course: git-send-email does not even require learning > the build process or separate download. Now I am getting upset. This is a BS argument. Sure, I can hack the source of these tools. But why on earth do I *have* to? Why can't we use or create an open contribution process *that works without having to work so hard to be able to contribute*? So unfortunately this thread has devolved. Which is sad. Because all I wanted is to have a change in Git's submission process that would not exclude *so many* developers. That is really all I care about. Not about tools. Not about open vs proprietary, or standards. I just want developers who are already familiar with Git, and come up with an improvement to Git itself, to be able to contribute it without having to pull out their hair in despair. Ciao, Dscho