user/dev discussion of public-inbox itself
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From: Johannes Schindelin <Johannes.Schindelin@gmx.de>
To: Eric Wong <e@80x24.org>
Cc: Stefan Beller <sbeller@google.com>,
	meta@public-inbox.org,  git@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: Working with public-inbox.org [Was: [PATCH] rev-parse: respect core.hooksPath in --git-path]
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 15:18:03 +0200 (CEST)
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1608221509010.4924@virtualbox> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20160819223547.GB16646@dcvr>

Hi Eric,

On Fri, 19 Aug 2016, Eric Wong wrote:

> Johannes Schindelin <Johannes.Schindelin@gmx.de> wrote:
> > On Thu, 18 Aug 2016, Eric Wong wrote:
> > > Johannes Schindelin <Johannes.Schindelin@gmx.de> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Old dogs claim the mail list-approach works for them. Nope.
> > > > Doesn't.  Else you would not have written all those custom
> > > > scripts.
> > > 
> > > git and cogito started as a bunch of custom scripts, too.
> > 
> > The difference is that neither git nor cogito were opinionated. Those
> > custom scripts are. They are for one particular workflow, with one
> > particular mail client, with a strong bias to a Unix-y environment.
> > 
> > I work really hard to make Git for Windows as easy and fun to use as
> > possible. I just wish that we were working together to make it as easy
> > and fun to contribute to Git, too.
> 
> I guess this is a fundamental difference between *nix and Windows
> culture.

I do not understand how you get from "I wish to make it fun to contribute
to Git" to "there is a fundamental difference between *nix and Windows
culture".

> I know Windows users have major performance problems with
> shell scripts;

That's because shell scripting is not native to Windows. I wish Linux had
a Powershell, allowing for decent scripting that does not try to smoosh
everything into a line-based text format. (Of course, since last week,
Linux does have a Powershell.)

Powershell is blazing fast, by the way, and not as ridiculously limited in
its expressibility as shell scripting.

But all of this is digressing from the original topic. I do not think this
is a productive.

> > We do not even have a section on Outlook in our SubmittingPatches.
> > 
> > Okay, if not the most popular mail client, then web mail? Nope, nope,
> > nope. No piping *at all* to external commands from there.
> > 
> > So you basically slam the door shut on the vast majority of email users.
> 
> Users have a choice to use a more scriptable mail client
> (but I guess the OS nudges users towards monolithic tools)

You call that choice. Are you serious?

> > That is not leaving much choice to the users in my book.
> 
> Users of alpine, gnus, mutt, sylpheed, thunderbird, kmail,
> roundcube, squirelmail, etc. can all download the source, hack,
> fix and customize things.  It's easier with smaller software,
> of course:  git-send-email does not even require learning
> the build process or separate download.

Now I am getting upset. This is a BS argument. Sure, I can hack the source
of these tools.

But why on earth do I *have* to? Why can't we use or create an open
contribution process *that works without having to work so hard to be able
to contribute*?

So unfortunately this thread has devolved. Which is sad. Because all I
wanted is to have a change in Git's submission process that would not
exclude *so many* developers. That is really all I care about. Not about
tools. Not about open vs proprietary, or standards.

I just want developers who are already familiar with Git, and come up with
an improvement to Git itself, to be able to contribute it without having
to pull out their hair in despair.

Ciao,
Dscho

  reply index

Thread overview: 64+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2016-08-16 16:55 Stefan Beller
2016-08-16 17:10 ` Junio C Hamano
2016-08-16 17:20   ` Jeff King
2016-08-16 17:54     ` Junio C Hamano
2016-08-16 17:22   ` Stefan Beller
2016-08-16 17:47     ` Junio C Hamano
2016-08-16 20:44   ` Eric Wong
2016-08-16 20:56     ` Eric Wong
2016-08-18 12:42 ` Johannes Schindelin
2016-08-18 20:49   ` Eric Wong
2016-08-18 21:41     ` Junio C Hamano
2016-08-19 15:18       ` Johannes Schindelin
2016-08-19 15:30     ` Johannes Schindelin
2016-08-19 16:55       ` Stefan Beller
2016-08-19 22:35         ` Eric Wong
2016-08-22 13:38         ` Johannes Schindelin
2016-08-22 19:21         ` Jeff King
2016-08-19 22:35       ` Eric Wong
2016-08-22 13:18         ` Johannes Schindelin [this message]
2016-08-22 18:05           ` Jakub Narębski
2016-08-25 13:21             ` Johannes Schindelin
2016-08-28 18:23               ` Jakub Narębski
2016-08-29 10:46                 ` Johannes Schindelin
2016-08-22 22:55           ` Eric Wong
2016-08-25 12:58             ` Johannes Schindelin
2016-08-27 22:38               ` Jakub Narębski
2016-08-28  8:36                 ` Working with public-inbox.org Johannes Schindelin
2016-08-28 11:41                   ` Jakub Narębski
2016-08-29  5:35                     ` Johannes Schindelin
2016-08-19 15:03   ` Working with public-inbox.org [Was: [PATCH] rev-parse: respect core.hooksPath in --git-path] Jeff King
2016-08-20 19:57     ` Jakub Narębski
2016-08-23  4:47       ` Arif Khokar
2016-08-24 15:34         ` Johannes Schindelin
2016-08-24 18:49           ` Eric Wong
2016-08-24 19:12             ` Jeff King
2016-08-24 19:27               ` Eric Wong
2016-08-25  3:40             ` Arif Khokar
2016-08-25  2:41           ` Arif Khokar
2017-02-10 16:10           ` Johannes Schindelin
2017-02-13  5:52             ` Arif Khokar
2017-02-13 14:37               ` Johannes Schindelin
2017-02-14  3:56                 ` Arif Khokar
2017-02-14  3:59                   ` Arif Khokar
2017-02-14  7:13                   ` Eric Wong
2017-02-13 19:21               ` Junio C Hamano
2017-02-14  3:55                 ` Arif Khokar
2017-02-14  4:41                   ` Junio C Hamano
2017-02-14  5:09                     ` Arif Khokar
2017-02-14  5:14                     ` Jeff King
2016-08-22 13:06     ` Johannes Schindelin
2016-08-22 13:15       ` Duy Nguyen
2016-08-22 20:38         ` Philip Oakley
2016-08-24 13:04           ` Johannes Schindelin
2016-08-24 19:16             ` Eric Wong
2016-08-25 13:08               ` Johannes Schindelin
2016-08-25  3:57             ` Arif Khokar
2016-08-25 13:01               ` Johannes Schindelin
2016-08-25 23:14                 ` Arif Khokar
2016-08-26  8:08                   ` Johannes Schindelin
2016-08-27 22:26         ` Jakub Narębski
2016-08-28  8:38           ` Johannes Schindelin
2016-08-28 13:45             ` Announcing Git User's Survey 2016 [was: Working with public-inbox.org] Jakub Narębski
2016-09-09 13:06               ` Johannes Schindelin
2016-09-09 18:51                 ` Jakub Narębski

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user/dev discussion of public-inbox itself

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