user/dev discussion of public-inbox itself
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From: Eric Wong <e@80x24.org>
To: Johannes Schindelin <Johannes.Schindelin@gmx.de>
Cc: Stefan Beller <sbeller@google.com>,
	meta@public-inbox.org, git@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: Working with public-inbox.org [Was: [PATCH] rev-parse: respect core.hooksPath in --git-path]
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 22:55:49 +0000
Message-ID: <20160822225549.GA25383@starla> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1608221509010.4924@virtualbox>

Johannes Schindelin <Johannes.Schindelin@gmx.de> wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Aug 2016, Eric Wong wrote:
> > Johannes Schindelin <Johannes.Schindelin@gmx.de> wrote:
> > > On Thu, 18 Aug 2016, Eric Wong wrote:
> > > > Johannes Schindelin <Johannes.Schindelin@gmx.de> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Old dogs claim the mail list-approach works for them. Nope.
> > > > > Doesn't.  Else you would not have written all those custom
> > > > > scripts.
> > > > 
> > > > git and cogito started as a bunch of custom scripts, too.
> > > 
> > > The difference is that neither git nor cogito were opinionated. Those
> > > custom scripts are. They are for one particular workflow, with one
> > > particular mail client, with a strong bias to a Unix-y environment.

<snip 3 lines I was not responding to>

> > I guess this is a fundamental difference between *nix and Windows
> > culture.
> 
> I do not understand how you get from "I wish to make it fun to contribute
> to Git" to "there is a fundamental difference between *nix and Windows
> culture".

Sorry, I over-quoted by 3 lines.

<snip more digression..>

> > > We do not even have a section on Outlook in our SubmittingPatches.
> > > 
> > > Okay, if not the most popular mail client, then web mail? Nope, nope,
> > > nope. No piping *at all* to external commands from there.
> > > 
> > > So you basically slam the door shut on the vast majority of email users.
> > 
> > Users have a choice to use a more scriptable mail client
> > (but I guess the OS nudges users towards monolithic tools)
> 
> You call that choice. Are you serious?
> 
> > > That is not leaving much choice to the users in my book.
> > 
> > Users of alpine, gnus, mutt, sylpheed, thunderbird, kmail,
> > roundcube, squirelmail, etc. can all download the source, hack,
> > fix and customize things.  It's easier with smaller software,
> > of course:  git-send-email does not even require learning
> > the build process or separate download.
> 
> Now I am getting upset. This is a BS argument. Sure, I can hack the source
> of these tools.
>
> But why on earth do I *have* to? Why can't we use or create an open
> contribution process *that works without having to work so hard to be able
> to contribute*?

The process we have is already open.  It may be *nix-centric,
and *nix may be picky about it's friends, but it is open:

	Anybody can still contribute today without any sort of
	registration, credentialism, or terms-of-service(*).

I am looking beyond git.

I hate signing up for websites.  For many years, I have used
Debian as a proxy for other projects with less open contribution
processes:

	apt-get source ...; <hack>; reportbug ...

Of course, going through Debian maintainers is not always
reliable or efficient.

I foolishly hoped git-svn would put an end to all the
registration-required bug tracker instances so I could just
send my changes directly to upstream maintainers without any
sort of registration.  Did not happen :<

> So unfortunately this thread has devolved. Which is sad. Because all I
> wanted is to have a change in Git's submission process that would not
> exclude *so many* developers. That is really all I care about. Not about
> tools. Not about open vs proprietary, or standards.
> 
> I just want developers who are already familiar with Git, and come up with
> an improvement to Git itself, to be able to contribute it without having
> to pull out their hair in despair.

We want the same thing.  I just want to go farther and get
people familiar with (federated|decentralized) tools instead of
proprietary and centralized ones.



(*) I wish git could get rid of the DCO, even.  But at least
    it's far better than the "papers, please" policy for some
    GNU projects.

  parent reply index

Thread overview: 64+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2016-08-16 16:55 Stefan Beller
2016-08-16 17:10 ` Junio C Hamano
2016-08-16 17:20   ` Jeff King
2016-08-16 17:54     ` Junio C Hamano
2016-08-16 17:22   ` Stefan Beller
2016-08-16 17:47     ` Junio C Hamano
2016-08-16 20:44   ` Eric Wong
2016-08-16 20:56     ` Eric Wong
2016-08-18 12:42 ` Johannes Schindelin
2016-08-18 20:49   ` Eric Wong
2016-08-18 21:41     ` Junio C Hamano
2016-08-19 15:18       ` Johannes Schindelin
2016-08-19 15:30     ` Johannes Schindelin
2016-08-19 16:55       ` Stefan Beller
2016-08-19 22:35         ` Eric Wong
2016-08-22 13:38         ` Johannes Schindelin
2016-08-22 19:21         ` Jeff King
2016-08-19 22:35       ` Eric Wong
2016-08-22 13:18         ` Johannes Schindelin
2016-08-22 18:05           ` Jakub Narębski
2016-08-25 13:21             ` Johannes Schindelin
2016-08-28 18:23               ` Jakub Narębski
2016-08-29 10:46                 ` Johannes Schindelin
2016-08-22 22:55           ` Eric Wong [this message]
2016-08-25 12:58             ` Johannes Schindelin
2016-08-27 22:38               ` Jakub Narębski
2016-08-28  8:36                 ` Working with public-inbox.org Johannes Schindelin
2016-08-28 11:41                   ` Jakub Narębski
2016-08-29  5:35                     ` Johannes Schindelin
2016-08-19 15:03   ` Working with public-inbox.org [Was: [PATCH] rev-parse: respect core.hooksPath in --git-path] Jeff King
2016-08-20 19:57     ` Jakub Narębski
2016-08-23  4:47       ` Arif Khokar
2016-08-24 15:34         ` Johannes Schindelin
2016-08-24 18:49           ` Eric Wong
2016-08-24 19:12             ` Jeff King
2016-08-24 19:27               ` Eric Wong
2016-08-25  3:40             ` Arif Khokar
2016-08-25  2:41           ` Arif Khokar
2017-02-10 16:10           ` Johannes Schindelin
2017-02-13  5:52             ` Arif Khokar
2017-02-13 14:37               ` Johannes Schindelin
2017-02-14  3:56                 ` Arif Khokar
2017-02-14  3:59                   ` Arif Khokar
2017-02-14  7:13                   ` Eric Wong
2017-02-13 19:21               ` Junio C Hamano
2017-02-14  3:55                 ` Arif Khokar
2017-02-14  4:41                   ` Junio C Hamano
2017-02-14  5:09                     ` Arif Khokar
2017-02-14  5:14                     ` Jeff King
2016-08-22 13:06     ` Johannes Schindelin
2016-08-22 13:15       ` Duy Nguyen
2016-08-22 20:38         ` Philip Oakley
2016-08-24 13:04           ` Johannes Schindelin
2016-08-24 19:16             ` Eric Wong
2016-08-25 13:08               ` Johannes Schindelin
2016-08-25  3:57             ` Arif Khokar
2016-08-25 13:01               ` Johannes Schindelin
2016-08-25 23:14                 ` Arif Khokar
2016-08-26  8:08                   ` Johannes Schindelin
2016-08-27 22:26         ` Jakub Narębski
2016-08-28  8:38           ` Johannes Schindelin
2016-08-28 13:45             ` Announcing Git User's Survey 2016 [was: Working with public-inbox.org] Jakub Narębski
2016-09-09 13:06               ` Johannes Schindelin
2016-09-09 18:51                 ` Jakub Narębski

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user/dev discussion of public-inbox itself

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