From: Alexandre Oliva <lxoliva@fsfla.org>
To: Aaron Wolf <wolftune@riseup.net>
Cc: Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support>, Thomas Lord <lord@basiscraft.com>,
Deb Nicholson <deb@eximiousproductions.com>,
Danny Spitzberg <stationaery@gmail.com>,
"Adrienne G. Thompson" <adriennegayethompson@gmail.com>,
libreplanet-discuss <libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org>,
libreplanet-discuss
<libreplanet-discuss-bounces+lord=basiscraft.com@libreplanet.org>
Subject: Re: Support RMS
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2021 19:40:06 -0300 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <orlf9jtbnd.fsf@lxoliva.fsfla.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <aa8f05a0-d418-6ad0-5968-20684dd4e8b7@riseup.net> (Aaron Wolf's message of "Thu, 15 Apr 2021 13:59:31 -0700")
On Apr 15, 2021, Aaron Wolf <wolftune@riseup.net> wrote:
> That RMS turns some people away is not debatable.
I'm willing to accept that as a premise. It would take more than a
saint (which he is ;-) to not turn anyone whatsoever away.
Now let's look into the effects of defaming him, shall we?
False accusations as the ones that have been made are not taken
lightly.
People who believe them are likely to be turned away not just from the
FSF, but from any public appearance by RMS as leader or regular
participant in the movement he founded.
If we accept the premise that RMS's misbehavior drives people away, then
attributing far worse misbehavior to him drives more people away from
the movement.
Conversely, people who do NOT believe the false accusations perceive
intolerance and a toxic atmosphere being supported by a significant
fraction of the movement.
If we accept the premise that misbehavior attributed to RMS drives
people away, then it's hard to dispute that the displays of intolerance
and toxic atmosphere will also drive people away, probably in a larger
magnitude.
That's why I find it so hard to believe that the poeple carrying out
these actions are acting out of love for the Free Software movement.
Even if they were sure their actions would manage to deprive the whole
movement from RMS's alleged negative influence, getting him to commit
suicide or somesuch, we'd lose the "stallman was right" wisdom, and get
the negative publicity of being such a toxic environment that the
founder was driven to suicide. And since their actions have failed,
we're left with a defamed leader, a divided community, and a large
number of lying and toxic participants who purport to have acted in good
faith for the movement, but that were only competent enough to have
caused great damage :-(
RMS is forever associated with the movement. The best those who love
the movement have to do is to restore his defamed image.
Those who don't wish to be associated with him, but that support the
ideas behind the movement, are better off finding ways to support the
ideas without interacting with him, but also without defaming him. As
for those who wish to destroy the movement... I don't really want to
give them any useful advice.
--
Alexandre Oliva, happy hacker https://FSFLA.org/blogs/lxo/
Free Software Activist GNU Toolchain Engineer
Vim, Vi, Voltei pro Emacs -- GNUlius Caesar
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-04-17 1:21 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 230+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2021-04-12 11:23 Support RMS Ali Reza Hayati
2021-04-12 17:32 ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2021-04-12 17:57 ` Ali Reza Hayati
2021-04-12 18:17 ` Jean Louis
2021-04-13 5:37 ` Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss
2021-04-13 5:57 ` Jean Louis
2021-04-13 6:58 ` Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss
2021-04-13 16:44 ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2021-04-13 12:53 ` Dennis Payne
2021-04-13 15:30 ` quiliro
2021-04-14 0:56 ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2021-04-14 1:00 ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-04-14 1:35 ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2021-04-14 1:42 ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-04-14 15:36 ` Deb Nicholson
2021-04-14 19:07 ` Jean Louis
2021-04-14 19:28 ` Deb Nicholson
[not found] ` <YHdGE/dikVycAXWJ@protected.localdomain>
2021-04-14 20:00 ` Deb Nicholson
2021-04-14 20:37 ` Jean Louis
2021-04-14 20:23 ` Thomas Lord
2021-04-14 20:55 ` Jean Louis
2021-04-14 23:13 ` Ali Reza Hayati
2021-04-15 7:51 ` Alexandre Oliva
2021-04-15 1:13 ` quiliro
2021-04-15 1:53 ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-04-15 2:29 ` quiliro
2021-04-15 8:20 ` Alexandre Oliva
2021-04-15 16:13 ` Deb Nicholson
2021-04-15 17:00 ` Ali Reza Hayati
2021-04-15 17:24 ` Ali Reza Hayati
2021-04-15 17:39 ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-04-15 17:47 ` Ali Reza Hayati
2021-04-15 17:51 ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-04-15 17:43 ` Aaron Wolf
2021-04-16 0:54 ` quiliro
2021-04-16 1:12 ` Aaron Wolf
2021-04-16 3:51 ` quiliro
2021-04-16 4:59 ` Jean Louis
2021-04-16 6:04 ` Aaron Wolf
2021-04-16 6:56 ` Jean Louis
2021-04-16 16:09 ` Aaron Wolf
2021-04-16 16:46 ` Ali Reza Hayati
[not found] ` <orpmysp80e.fsf@lxoliva.fsfla.org>
2021-04-18 4:48 ` Aaron Wolf
2021-04-18 5:19 ` Thomas Lord
2021-04-18 5:24 ` Thomas Lord
2021-04-15 17:23 ` Thomas Lord
2021-04-15 17:39 ` Aaron Wolf
2021-04-15 18:43 ` Jean Louis
2021-04-15 20:59 ` Aaron Wolf
2021-04-15 22:40 ` Alexandre Oliva [this message]
2021-04-15 22:49 ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-04-16 4:36 ` Jean Louis
2021-04-16 4:43 ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-04-16 5:02 ` Jean Louis
2021-04-16 5:21 ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-04-16 6:22 ` Jean Louis
2021-04-16 6:48 ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-04-16 7:25 ` Jean Louis
2021-04-16 8:07 ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-04-16 10:48 ` Jean Louis
2021-04-16 14:09 ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-04-16 14:52 ` Deb Nicholson
2021-04-16 19:26 ` Jean Louis
[not found] ` <CAEYaDQNahppkCt5kEytkaJ34a9zoUXt=W93f8sJErsyvceiXYA@mail.gmail.com>
2021-04-16 10:52 ` Jean Louis
2021-04-16 21:06 ` Thomas Lord
2021-04-16 21:04 ` Thomas Lord
2021-04-16 21:49 ` Thomas Lord
2021-04-16 22:04 ` Aaron Wolf
2021-04-16 22:08 ` Thomas Lord
2021-04-16 22:55 ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2021-04-16 23:22 ` Support RMS - find new communities Danny Spitzberg
2021-04-17 1:10 ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2021-04-16 21:56 ` Support RMS Adrienne G. Thompson
2021-04-16 22:12 ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-04-16 22:18 ` Thomas Lord
[not found] ` <YHqAGLJeGFiJTZ2V@protected.localdomain>
2021-04-18 17:15 ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2021-04-16 4:45 ` Jean Louis
2021-04-16 5:00 ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-04-16 3:45 ` Jean Louis
2021-04-15 18:44 ` Lusin via libreplanet-discuss
2021-04-15 18:39 ` Jean Louis
2021-04-15 18:41 ` Jean Louis
2021-04-15 22:19 ` Alexandre Oliva
2021-04-15 22:34 ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-04-15 23:37 ` Alexandre Oliva
2021-04-16 4:49 ` Jean Louis
2021-04-16 4:21 ` Jean Louis
2021-04-16 4:20 ` Jean Louis
2021-04-15 19:24 ` Support RMS> to Deb, all gregor
2021-04-15 19:38 ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-04-15 20:02 ` Deb Nicholson
2021-04-15 20:14 ` gregor
2021-04-15 20:55 ` Thomas Lord
2021-04-15 22:42 ` Steve M Bibayoff
2021-04-17 16:02 ` Matt Ivie
2021-04-16 1:13 ` quiliro
2021-04-16 1:31 ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-04-16 4:34 ` quiliro
2021-04-16 4:42 ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-04-16 5:30 ` quiliro
2021-04-16 5:52 ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-04-15 20:04 ` gregor
2021-04-15 20:15 ` Support RMS Alexandre Oliva
2021-04-15 21:00 ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2021-04-15 21:10 ` Matt Ivie
2021-04-16 6:35 ` Federico Leva (Nemo)
2021-04-14 14:48 ` Ali Reza Hayati
2021-04-14 17:19 ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2021-04-14 18:52 ` Jean Louis
2021-04-14 18:23 ` Jean Louis
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2021-03-27 6:18 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2021-03-27 5:58 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2021-03-27 6:13 ` Aaron Wolf
2021-03-27 6:23 ` Thomas Lord
2021-03-27 6:25 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2021-03-27 6:35 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2021-03-27 11:42 ` Neils Nesse
2021-03-27 12:12 ` Jean Louis
2021-03-27 6:30 ` Jean Louis
2021-03-27 17:45 ` Danny Spitzberg
[not found] ` <YF96LdwX+DQx/0FH@protected.localdomain>
2021-03-27 19:07 ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-03-31 0:15 ` quiliro
2021-03-31 0:06 ` quiliro
2021-03-27 5:08 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2021-03-27 5:32 ` Máirín Duffy
2021-03-27 6:41 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2021-03-27 5:35 ` Aaron Wolf
2021-03-29 12:25 ` quiliro
2021-03-29 12:49 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2021-03-29 14:46 ` Jean Louis
2021-03-29 17:34 ` Lusin via libreplanet-discuss
2021-03-25 23:57 Ali Reza Hayati
2021-03-26 0:19 ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-03-26 1:04 ` Ali Reza Hayati
2021-03-26 1:40 ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2021-03-26 3:29 ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2021-03-26 4:57 ` Jean Louis
2021-03-26 1:47 ` Steve M Bibayoff
2021-03-26 14:50 ` Ali Reza Hayati
2021-03-26 15:54 ` Aaron Wolf
2021-03-26 16:40 ` Yuchen Pei
2021-03-26 16:53 ` Aaron Wolf
2021-03-26 17:03 ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-03-27 21:27 ` quiliro
2021-03-27 21:52 ` Aaron Wolf
2021-03-26 17:05 ` Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss
2021-03-26 17:28 ` Thomas Lord
2021-03-27 19:59 ` quiliro
2021-03-27 20:19 ` Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss
2021-03-27 19:55 ` quiliro
2021-03-29 19:25 ` Jean Louis
2021-03-30 3:23 ` quiliro
2021-03-30 3:44 ` Jean Louis
2021-03-30 7:25 ` Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss
2021-03-26 17:24 ` Thomas Lord
2021-03-26 17:32 ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-03-26 17:39 ` Thomas Lord
2021-03-26 17:46 ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-03-26 17:51 ` Thomas Lord
2021-03-26 17:55 ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-03-26 17:59 ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-03-26 21:18 ` Jean Louis
2021-03-26 18:00 ` Ali Reza Hayati
2021-03-26 18:02 ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-03-26 18:06 ` Ali Reza Hayati
2021-03-26 18:09 ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-03-27 21:14 ` quiliro
2021-03-31 14:38 ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-03-31 15:19 ` Aaron Wolf
2021-03-31 17:26 ` Miles Fidelman
2021-03-26 18:11 ` Thomas Lord
2021-03-26 18:15 ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-03-26 18:25 ` Thomas Lord
2021-03-26 19:02 ` Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss
2021-03-27 21:13 ` quiliro
2021-03-26 21:20 ` Jean Louis
2021-03-26 21:15 ` Jean Louis
2021-03-26 21:14 ` Jean Louis
2021-03-26 21:11 ` Jean Louis
2021-03-27 2:16 ` Aaron Wolf
2021-03-27 6:20 ` Jean Louis
2021-03-26 19:52 ` Quiliro Ordóñez
2021-03-27 17:40 ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-03-29 1:35 ` quiliro
2021-03-29 19:06 ` Jean Louis
2021-03-26 20:32 ` Jean Louis
2021-03-26 4:36 ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-03-26 12:29 ` Ali Reza Hayati
2021-03-26 13:18 ` Deb Nicholson
2021-03-26 13:35 ` Yuchen Pei
2021-03-26 13:38 ` Ali Reza Hayati
2021-03-26 13:49 ` Deb Nicholson
2021-03-26 14:03 ` Ali Reza Hayati
2021-03-26 14:17 ` Deb Nicholson
2021-03-26 14:26 ` Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss
2021-03-26 14:37 ` Ali Reza Hayati
2021-03-26 20:59 ` Jean Louis
2021-03-26 23:03 ` Deb Nicholson
2021-03-26 23:20 ` Jean Louis
2021-03-26 23:59 ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-03-27 5:53 ` Jean Louis
2021-03-27 0:16 ` Thomas Lord
2021-03-27 0:18 ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-03-27 2:29 ` Aaron Wolf
2021-03-27 2:50 ` Thomas Lord
2021-03-27 5:47 ` Aaron Wolf
2021-03-27 5:53 ` Thomas Lord
2021-03-27 6:23 ` Jean Louis
2021-03-27 12:06 ` Robbt
2021-03-27 12:28 ` Jean Louis
2021-03-27 12:36 ` Stephen Paul Weber
2021-03-27 12:41 ` Jean Louis
2021-03-27 13:41 ` Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss
2021-03-31 21:16 ` Matt Ivie
2021-04-01 7:25 ` Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss
2021-03-26 18:44 ` Florian Snow
2021-03-26 19:28 ` Thomas Lord
2021-03-26 21:26 ` Elias Rudberg
2021-03-26 22:01 ` Florian Snow
2021-03-27 23:15 ` quiliro
2021-03-29 19:52 ` Jean Louis
2021-03-30 23:54 ` quiliro
2021-03-26 21:33 ` Jean Louis
2021-03-26 22:20 ` Florian Snow
2021-03-26 20:48 ` Jean Louis
2021-03-26 13:27 ` Robbt E
2021-03-26 20:56 ` Jean Louis
2021-03-26 20:40 ` Jean Louis
2021-03-31 20:57 ` Matt Ivie
2021-03-26 14:22 ` Adonay Felipe Nogueira via libreplanet-discuss
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