Re: Support RMS

[Thomas Lord <lord@basiscraft.com>]

Aaron, there is no resolution.  They have demonstrated
beyond any doubt that they do not want and will not
enter into any resolution.

Therefore, it is now a question of whether or not
they will allow others to work in peace without
them.

-t


On 2021-04-16 15:04, Aaron Wolf wrote:
> Thomas, I respect many of the things you have said, and I also think we
> should all be hesitant to string this on and on and on. However, I do
> not support your proposition that people just leave or that the threads
> are nothing but absurdity. For any movement to be strong, it has to be
> capable of grappling with difficult controversy and not just pushing it
> away.
> 
> The RMS critics themselves want RMS gone because they too share your
> wish to just make uncomfortable things just stop. But they don't. We
> don't resolve this by artificially marking the conversation as done or
> won't-fix or resolved before it actually is.
> 
> Perhaps we could propose alternative ways to go forward such as using
> IRC (which doesn't pollute the email list), replying privately more
> often, and indeed letting things go when there's nothing constructive 
> to
> say.
> 
> But we better use this moment to continue to improve how we communicate
> if we are to come out of this stronger instead of weaker. IMO, the best
> direction is neither just stop discussion nor is it to just continue
> indefinitely. Although a pause for a while might well be good, as might
> taking things to other spaces.
> 
> On 2021-04-16 2:49 p.m., Thomas Lord wrote:
>> I may have attributed the foot smell comment to the wrong
>> person.  Sorry, if so.
>> 
>> Whoever said it, these threads have gone beyond absurd, and beyond
>> even any pretense of basic decency, nevermind seriously
>> minded activism.
>> 
>> Will people please move on from these topics, and those who
>> aren't satisfied, please just exercise your freedom not to
>> associate with the FSF.
>> 
>> There is a global pandemic.  There is a global climate emergency.
>> Both of those are areas where software freedom can help
>> quite a bit.   There is a big crisis in the capitalist markets
>> around mass surveillance, centralized (dis-)services, and so on.
>> These are real crises for software freedom.   There is so much our
>> already existing stock of software can do that people aren't
>> using it for - and this too is a crisis/opportunity for software
>> freedom.   There is a question of how to have libre planet when
>> air travel is ecologically insane and so forth -- that's another
>> relevant topic to talk about.
>> 
>> Stop with the trolling about RMS, and trolling is about what it has
>> boiled down to at this point.
>> 
>> -t
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 2021-04-16 14:04, Thomas Lord wrote:
>>>> * Danny Spitzberg <stationaery@gmail.com> [2021-04-16 08:21]:
>>>> "(I was not close enough to smell his feet, however)"
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Please get off this list.   There is no place for such infintile
>>> rudeness.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -t
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 2021-04-15 23:22, Jean Louis wrote:
>>>> * Danny Spitzberg <stationaery@gmail.com> [2021-04-16 08:21]:
>>>>> On Thu, Apr 15, 2021 at 10:04 PM Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support> 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> > * Danny Spitzberg <stationaery@gmail.com> [2021-04-16 07:44]:
>>>>> > > Unfortunately, but unsurprisingly, the recording of the talk
>>>>> cuts off
>>>>> > > before RMS started yelling angrily.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I don’t know where it is. Sorry, Jean! I can tell you RMS was
>>>>> sitting in
>>>>> the back-left of room 123 of the MIT Stata Center, wearing a green
>>>>> collard
>>>>> shirt, black pants, and no shoes or sandals or socks (I was not 
>>>>> close
>>>>> enough to smell his feet, however). I hope you’ll believe me all 
>>>>> the
>>>>> same.
>>>> 
>>>> You bring up some ha ha cultural differences, but some people are 
>>>> more
>>>> free and some not. Would he be Muslim in some kind of a Muslim 
>>>> dress,
>>>> would you value him for the merits or how he looks like...
>>>> 
>>>> I am grown up in a place where we like to be comfortable, so in the
>>>> bus, I will often take my shoes off to be comfortable, but even if 
>>>> it
>>>> does not smell somebody will not like it.
>>>> 
>>>> Yesterday I was in park as in my role as investor and I am sitting 
>>>> on
>>>> ground with a lovely student just as I would be doing it with 14
>>>> years old, but somebody may not find it appropriate.
>>>> 
>>>> I think those cultural things should not be subject of anything 
>>>> called
>>>> "Planet" as if you truly want a planet, accept people how they are,
>>>> and look for their merits, not personal choice of having sandals or
>>>> not.
>>>> 
>>>> Currently being located in Easter Africa, I can see many people
>>>> walking barefoot, including in the rain, I see nice woman of about
>>>> 22-25 walking barefoot on mud, I would do the same to join her. 
>>>> Before
>>>> few days receptionist brings me food to my lodge room and I receive
>>>> him naked and he does not mind.
>>>> 
>>>> Further, that somebody does not have sandals and is sitting behind 
>>>> is
>>>> nothing that may be compared to what you say unwelcoming.
>>>> 
>>>> What would be unwelcoming is when RMS would have no sandals and 
>>>> would
>>>> be demanding that everybody entering the room should have no
>>>> sandals.
>>>> 
>>>> You see, me personally, not being same as you, I would not mind when
>>>> people don't wear sandals, as I am planetary citizen, and I believe
>>>> you can be the same. There are larger rooms and public spaces here 
>>>> in
>>>> Uganda where you need to put your shoes outside before entering to
>>>> keep the space cleaner, I do not say it is really objectively 
>>>> cleaner,
>>>> but I am giving you example of planetary differences in human
>>>> interactions or intermixed behavior.
>>>> 
>>>> Your personal impression does not yet not even closely justify 
>>>> ability
>>>> of RMS to speak for FSF, neither justify public shamings.
>>>> 
>>>> What I would suggest to you Deb is to start traveling and learn what
>>>> our planet really is.

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