joint merchandise production between projects (t-shirts, stickers, Swiss army knives, ...)

joint merchandise production between projects (t-shirts, stickers, Swiss army knives, ...)

[Daniel Pocock]

Hi all,

There has been some discussion on debian-project about merchandise
production, mainly t-shirts and clothing[1] and one thing that came up
is the question of collaboration between multiple projects.

Can people from any other communities share comments on how they
produce, store, distribute and account for merchandise like this?

Is anybody aware of opportunities to reduce costs, for example, getting
stickers for some smaller projects made up at the same time that a
larger project or event makes stickers?

Is anybody aware of non-profit-friendly organizations that may be good
to partner with to outsource merchandising?

A few years ago Debian even made up some Swiss army knives[2], I think
there may still be a small number left with debian.ch

Regards,

Daniel


1. https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2017/04/msg00053.html
2. https://wiki.debian.org/Merchandise/SwissKnives

Re: joint merchandise production between projects (t-shirts, stickers, Swiss army knives, ...)

[John Sullivan]

Daniel Pocock <daniel@pocock.pro> writes:

> Hi all,
>
> There has been some discussion on debian-project about merchandise
> production, mainly t-shirts and clothing[1] and one thing that came up
> is the question of collaboration between multiple projects.
>
> Can people from any other communities share comments on how they
> produce, store, distribute and account for merchandise like this?
>
> Is anybody aware of opportunities to reduce costs, for example, getting
> stickers for some smaller projects made up at the same time that a
> larger project or event makes stickers?
>
> Is anybody aware of non-profit-friendly organizations that may be good
> to partner with to outsource merchandising?
>
> A few years ago Debian even made up some Swiss army knives[2], I think
> there may still be a small number left with debian.ch

We're happy to share what info we have that might be useful -- you
should send questions to sales@fsf.org.

Discounts / cost reductions normally come from larger quantities of the
same product/design. But of course we could try negotiating with vendors
as a group, to say that our business comes together or not at all.
Probably in some cases that would get us better pricing. We haven't
tried it.

For projects that match up especially well with the FSF mission, we
could consider mutually beneficial arrangements to sell and ship their
merchandise from shop.fsf.org. We don't have an existing defined
framework for doing that, but we have done it from time to time.

-john

-- 
John Sullivan | Executive Director, Free Software Foundation
GPG Key: A462 6CBA FF37 6039 D2D7 5544 97BA 9CE7 61A0 963B
http://status.fsf.org/johns | http://fsf.org/blogs/RSS

Do you use free software? Donate to join the FSF and support freedom at
<http://my.fsf.org/join>.

ISPs that block port 80

[Steven Sullam]

What are people's opinions on this? ISPs block 80 on consumer internet 
connections purportedly to prevent the spread of malware and viruses. I 
think it is in infringement on free speech. I have had ISPs in Hawaii 
and Missouri where this isn't done and you are free to run your web 
server on port 80.  I am aware that the current chairman of the FCC is 
against the open internet, so I am swimming against the tide. :D
Steve

Re: joint merchandise production between projects (t-shirts, stickers, Swiss army knives, ...)

[Daniel Pocock]

On 01/05/17 18:49, John Sullivan wrote:
> Daniel Pocock <daniel@pocock.pro> writes:
> 
>> Hi all,
>>
>> There has been some discussion on debian-project about merchandise
>> production, mainly t-shirts and clothing[1] and one thing that came up
>> is the question of collaboration between multiple projects.
>>
>> Can people from any other communities share comments on how they
>> produce, store, distribute and account for merchandise like this?
>>
>> Is anybody aware of opportunities to reduce costs, for example, getting
>> stickers for some smaller projects made up at the same time that a
>> larger project or event makes stickers?
>>
>> Is anybody aware of non-profit-friendly organizations that may be good
>> to partner with to outsource merchandising?
>>
>> A few years ago Debian even made up some Swiss army knives[2], I think
>> there may still be a small number left with debian.ch
> 
> We're happy to share what info we have that might be useful -- you
> should send questions to sales@fsf.org.
> 
> Discounts / cost reductions normally come from larger quantities of the
> same product/design. But of course we could try negotiating with vendors
> as a group, to say that our business comes together or not at all.
> Probably in some cases that would get us better pricing. We haven't
> tried it.
> 

I think one good example where sharing would work is in stickers and
business cards.

The printing company usually cuts them out of an A4 or A3 sheet with a
guillotine.  If one sheet can fit 5 x 4 = 20 stickers, then the printing
company can produce 2000 sheets with 40,000 stickers divided up with the
guillotine for each organization.

Doing a larger run like 2000 or 5000 sheets would clearly bring down the
cost.

For screen printing t-shirts, such efficiencies are unlikely to be found
as they have to make up the screens individually for each design
although there could be some savings in administration and shipping
charges if many are done in one place.


> For projects that match up especially well with the FSF mission, we
> could consider mutually beneficial arrangements to sell and ship their
> merchandise from shop.fsf.org. We don't have an existing defined
> framework for doing that, but we have done it from time to time.
> 

That would be an interesting way to collaborate as well.

Do you keep inventory in a single country/location or could this work
well globally?

Regards,

Daniel

Re: joint merchandise production between projects (t-shirts, stickers, Swiss army knives, ...)

[Markus Fischer]

Hi all

I read only about price and cost cutting. What's about 
sustainability, working conditions, clean production etc. ?

Regards

Markus

Am 01.05.2017 um 20:00 schrieb Daniel Pocock:
>
>
> On 01/05/17 18:49, John Sullivan wrote:
>> Daniel Pocock <daniel@pocock.pro> writes:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> There has been some discussion on debian-project about merchandise
>>> production, mainly t-shirts and clothing[1] and one thing that came up
>>> is the question of collaboration between multiple projects.
>>>
>>> Can people from any other communities share comments on how they
>>> produce, store, distribute and account for merchandise like this?
>>>
>>> Is anybody aware of opportunities to reduce costs, for example, getting
>>> stickers for some smaller projects made up at the same time that a
>>> larger project or event makes stickers?
>>>
>>> Is anybody aware of non-profit-friendly organizations that may be good
>>> to partner with to outsource merchandising?
>>>
>>> A few years ago Debian even made up some Swiss army knives[2], I think
>>> there may still be a small number left with debian.ch
>>
>> We're happy to share what info we have that might be useful -- you
>> should send questions to sales@fsf.org.
>>
>> Discounts / cost reductions normally come from larger quantities of the
>> same product/design. But of course we could try negotiating with vendors
>> as a group, to say that our business comes together or not at all.
>> Probably in some cases that would get us better pricing. We haven't
>> tried it.
>>
>
> I think one good example where sharing would work is in stickers and
> business cards.
>
> The printing company usually cuts them out of an A4 or A3 sheet with a
> guillotine.  If one sheet can fit 5 x 4 = 20 stickers, then the printing
> company can produce 2000 sheets with 40,000 stickers divided up with the
> guillotine for each organization.
>
> Doing a larger run like 2000 or 5000 sheets would clearly bring down the
> cost.
>
> For screen printing t-shirts, such efficiencies are unlikely to be found
> as they have to make up the screens individually for each design
> although there could be some savings in administration and shipping
> charges if many are done in one place.
>
>
>> For projects that match up especially well with the FSF mission, we
>> could consider mutually beneficial arrangements to sell and ship their
>> merchandise from shop.fsf.org. We don't have an existing defined
>> framework for doing that, but we have done it from time to time.
>>
>
> That would be an interesting way to collaborate as well.
>
> Do you keep inventory in a single country/location or could this work
> well globally?
>
> Regards,
>
> Daniel
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> libreplanet-discuss mailing list
> libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
> https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
>

Re: ISPs that block port 80

[Kees Epema]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1306 bytes --]

In my opinion there are other solutions for ISP's to prevent malware/viruses than blocking port 80. 
Maybe these ISP's only support https on 443? Regarding privacy concerns over unencrypted protocols like port 80, that seems to me no bad policy.

One of the main reason for existence of ISP's is to support http and https traffic?


On Mon, 1 May 2017 13:33:48 -0400
Steven Sullam <steve@stevesullam.com> wrote:

> What are people's opinions on this? ISPs block 80 on consumer internet 
> connections purportedly to prevent the spread of malware and viruses. I 
> think it is in infringement on free speech. I have had ISPs in Hawaii 
> and Missouri where this isn't done and you are free to run your web 
> server on port 80.  I am aware that the current chairman of the FCC is 
> against the open internet, so I am swimming against the tide. :D
> Steve
> 
> _______________________________________________
> libreplanet-discuss mailing list
> libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
> https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss


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T: 06 100 66 878
M: keesepema@linuxmail.org

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Add my key to your keyring:
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Re: joint merchandise production between projects (t-shirts, stickers, Swiss army knives, ...)

[Daniel Pocock]

On 01/05/17 20:20, Markus Fischer wrote:
> Hi all
> 
> I read only about price and cost cutting. What's about sustainability,
> working conditions, clean production etc. ?
> 

I feel it is dangerous to mix too many different political causes with
free software.

I would like to know that people were paid for the work they did to
produce the clothes I wear.  However, on the question of the rate their
employer pays them, if they agree to accept that salary and it is better
than any other salary offer in their region then is it really any of our
business to ask questions about it?

Regards,

Daniel

Re: joint merchandise production between projects (t-shirts, stickers, Swiss army knives, ...)

[Markus Fischer]

Am 01.05.2017 um 21:02 schrieb Daniel Pocock:

> I feel it is dangerous to mix too many different political causes with
> free software.

I feel it is dangerous not to care about our own economical 
decisions. Why should we care about the software we use then...


> I would like to know that people were paid for the work they did to
> produce the clothes I wear.  However, on the question of the rate their
> employer pays them, if they agree to accept that salary and it is better
> than any other salary offer in their region then is it really any of our
> business to ask questions about it?

I did not mention anything about the effective salaries paid. We 
should care about where and by whom this merchandising items are 
produced. Would you like to wear a shirt out of a production where 
sewers are hold like slaves to promote free software? And it is not 
about clothing in general, but clothing that is a statement itself.

Why not to buy from small companies in several countries who really 
support the idea themselves -- and pay some swiss franc more...
This would be far better, than concentrate on large scale effects 
like any other purchase manager at an international retail giant.

By the way -  I bought many items from https://shop.fsf.org/. Price 
was never an issue.

--Markus

Re: joint merchandise production between projects (t-shirts, stickers, Swiss army knives, ...)

[Daniel Pocock]

On 01/05/17 21:38, Markus Fischer wrote:
> 
> 
> Am 01.05.2017 um 21:02 schrieb Daniel Pocock:
> 
>> I feel it is dangerous to mix too many different political causes with
>> free software.
> 
> I feel it is dangerous not to care about our own economical decisions.
> Why should we care about the software we use then...
> 

I didn't suggest "not to care", just that "too many" different causes
can be dangerous.

I agree that there should be some minimum standards, but even if you say
"no child labour", which sounds sensible, for example, it becomes
complicated because the children just go back to trawling through
rubbish dumps, a job that is far more dangerous than sewing together
t-shirts.  There are plenty of great forums online where we could
discuss the details further.

If you want to provide a concrete example of a minimum standard that can
be used that would be useful.

> 
>> I would like to know that people were paid for the work they did to
>> produce the clothes I wear.  However, on the question of the rate their
>> employer pays them, if they agree to accept that salary and it is better
>> than any other salary offer in their region then is it really any of our
>> business to ask questions about it?
> 
> I did not mention anything about the effective salaries paid. We should
> care about where and by whom this merchandising items are produced.
> Would you like to wear a shirt out of a production where sewers are hold
> like slaves to promote free software? And it is not about clothing in
> general, but clothing that is a statement itself.
> 

My point was that people were freely agreeing to accept the salary, so
wouldn't that exclude slavery?

Would it be disturbing to overpay for things so that some workers who
took out excessively big mortgages and car loans can keep up their
western salaries while denying opportunities to workers in other countries?

> Why not to buy from small companies in several countries who really
> support the idea themselves -- and pay some swiss franc more...
> This would be far better, than concentrate on large scale effects like
> any other purchase manager at an international retail giant.
>

Did I ever exclude such possibilities?

Regards,

Daniel

Re: ISPs that block port 80

[Thomas HARDING]

That's obviously stupid, as any malware deposit on any location would 
provide same effect.

No MIM is needed, that's as exactly as Threatened(trusted) Computing.


Le 01/05/2017 à 20:39, Kees Epema a écrit :
> In my opinion there are other solutions for ISP's to prevent malware/viruses than blocking port 80.
> Maybe these ISP's only support https on 443? Regarding privacy concerns over unencrypted protocols like port 80, that seems to me no bad policy.
>
> One of the main reason for existence of ISP's is to support http and https traffic?
>
>
> On Mon, 1 May 2017 13:33:48 -0400
> Steven Sullam <steve@stevesullam.com> wrote:
>
>> What are people's opinions on this? ISPs block 80 on consumer internet
>> connections purportedly to prevent the spread of malware and viruses. I
>> think it is in infringement on free speech. I have had ISPs in Hawaii
>> and Missouri where this isn't done and you are free to run your web
Steven is in reason here:
>> server on port 80.  I am aware that the current chairman of the FCC is
>> against the open internet, so I am swimming against the tide. :D
>> Steve
>>

Re: ISPs that block port 80

[Dr. Tom McKellips]

I would take this blockage of outbound traffic on 80 and 443 one step
further, free speech is one thing, but the other effect is interstate
and international commerce is being randomly restricted by what is now
essentially a utility provider. While the Internet was in it's infancy,
it was not a necessary tool for society; the telephone and electric
started in the same general ways. Today the Internet as grown to
something some of the population depends on for an income and in some
case survival. 
Therefore technically the Internet has become a public utility and an
Internet provider is a provider of a public utility. Public utilities,
which were regulated by states, were not allowed to discriminate in
providing that utility to a person (you still had to pay the bill,
unless some type of mitigating circumstances). The Internet provider
which is blocking certain ports is creating a discrimination, therefore
negatively affecting ones quality of life. What needs to be done is get
government to recognize the ISP as a public utility provider and stop
them from any type of discrimination (human or technical).

Dr. Tom McKellips
On Fri, 2017-05-05 at 17:17 +0200, Thomas HARDING wrote:
> That's obviously stupid, as any malware deposit on any location would 
> provide same effect.
> 
> No MIM is needed, that's as exactly as Threatened(trusted) Computing.
> 
> 
> Le 01/05/2017 à 20:39, Kees Epema a écrit :
> > In my opinion there are other solutions for ISP's to prevent malware/viruses than blocking port 80.
> > Maybe these ISP's only support https on 443? Regarding privacy concerns over unencrypted protocols like port 80, that seems to me no bad policy.
> >
> > One of the main reason for existence of ISP's is to support http and https traffic?
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 1 May 2017 13:33:48 -0400
> > Steven Sullam <steve@stevesullam.com> wrote:
> >
> >> What are people's opinions on this? ISPs block 80 on consumer internet
> >> connections purportedly to prevent the spread of malware and viruses. I
> >> think it is in infringement on free speech. I have had ISPs in Hawaii
> >> and Missouri where this isn't done and you are free to run your web
> Steven is in reason here:
> >> server on port 80.  I am aware that the current chairman of the FCC is
> >> against the open internet, so I am swimming against the tide. :D
> >> Steve
> >>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> libreplanet-discuss mailing list
> libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
> https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss