From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on dcvr.yhbt.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.4 required=3.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,NICE_REPLY_A,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS shortcircuit=no autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by dcvr.yhbt.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7AEAC1F5AE for ; Fri, 24 Jul 2020 14:48:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:58628 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jyz03-0007nn-Bj for e@80x24.org; Fri, 24 Jul 2020 10:48:39 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:54666) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jyyzi-0007nK-RT for libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org; Fri, 24 Jul 2020 10:48:18 -0400 Received: from a.siauliai.hyperbola.info ([2a02:e00:ffe7:6::1]:49394 helo=smtp.hyperbola.info) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jyyzf-0007Ls-C4 for libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org; Fri, 24 Jul 2020 10:48:18 -0400 Received: by smtp.hyperbola.info (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id 10a13086 (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256:NO) auth=yes user=adfeno for ; Fri, 24 Jul 2020 14:48:09 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: Matrix communication protocol. To: libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org References: <1595541394.1159.3@disroot.org> Message-ID: Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2020 11:47:39 -0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/68.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1595541394.1159.3@disroot.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a02:e00:ffe7:6::1; envelope-from=adfeno@hyperbola.info; helo=smtp.hyperbola.info X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_FAIL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , From: Adonay Felipe Nogueira via libreplanet-discuss Reply-To: Adonay Felipe Nogueira Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6755998970943930084==" Errors-To: libreplanet-discuss-bounces+e=80x24.org@libreplanet.org Sender: "libreplanet-discuss" This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --===============6755998970943930084== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="2upEORASSaRpqTUspLB49Upml7cWAsP09" This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --2upEORASSaRpqTUspLB49Upml7cWAsP09 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="RIi4Kjs318IH3vFc7Dz9lAB2UNeKHHrtI" --RIi4Kjs318IH3vFc7Dz9lAB2UNeKHHrtI Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Note: I don't speak for FSF, nor for GNU. Em 23/07/2020 18:56, Msavoritias escreveu: > Guix on system. I am part of the Guix Channel on Matrix.> [=85] > I created three channels on my server privacytools.io I know that th= ere > are some GNU channels on the matrix.org server but I went forth with= > [=85] > I noticed that there are a lot of GNU projects already there. Some o= f > them are GUIX, Octave, Gnunet, a lot of GNU channels, Linux Libre an= d > so forth. On the subject of channels/rooms, please make sure that these are pure Matrix channels by checking the full address, since last time I tried (many years ago) with purple-matrix, Matrix itself doesn't tell that very easily. Also, make sure that the official pages of the projects advertise these channels, if not, they might not be official. > creating one on my server. First for Decentralization reasons. > Matrix.org is the biggest server. And second matrix.org is slow due = to > the number of users there. > we can al ways set up an IRC bridge to talk with people on the gnu I= RC > server. Setting up a bridge means allocating a separate part of the server to talk to those protocols. How this communication is made (if a guest account is created for every person or if each of them have to manually set their own account in case the IRC network has rules to only allow participation of registered people) is another set of issues. The best option I know of thus far, which also helps non-experienced and unregistered users although possibly having some limitations on which IRC features will be available, is to set a bot to serve as a message relay back and forth between the target channels. Disregarding the message relay bot solution, Matrix's bridge services seem to be similar to XMPP's. As for the bot, as a Free Software Directory reviewer/evaluator, I saw a submission (still unapproved) for one such tools, which I'm trying to review as of today. > Second a lot of new users nowdays expect modern tooling and > communication. I think integrating a Matrix server will be a great w= ay Indeed but, let's not forget that the means of communication and data interoperability/exchange that are still stable as of today succeeded in such a way thanks to one specific kind of standardization that was the norm before the growth of the Californian ideology past 2000 (i.e.: the term coined by Richard Barbrook and Andy Cameron, not to be confused with beliefs of a random person from California). The standard in question which resisted is called "open standard", not because it simply came from a free/libre and "open source" software project, but because it was/is approved by a national or international standards body/collective/workgroup =97 e.g.: internationally we have many organizations, including W3C, IETF, ISO, XSF. These standards bodies often accept members from different groups so as to make sure that everyone has a chance to participate. These "open standards" can of course be obsolete or not reflect a new scenario that arose, this is why the members of the bodies can occasionally call on the others to make updated versions, which in most cases, even if approved, are in no way immediately mandatory. However, when it involves standards "auto-regulated" by their own projects, we will occasionally see lots of anomalies, such as: new versions being approved as mandatory very fast and thus breaking software which, despite being updated, still implement the old version; and other group of people making and following a partially compatible parallel standard branched from the original (e.g.: original Markdown, GitLab/GitHub Markdown, BibTex, BibLaTeX, abnTeX2, abnTeX2cite, BibLaTeX-ABNT). It must be noted that even if "open standards" suffer from these anomalies =97 e.g.: WhatsApp which was a XMPP service provider too big (because many people recommended it instead of pointing to either a "XMPP server list" or a local provider), and so made "FunXMPP" which embraced XMPP, extended it, and extinguished XMPP communications); and the many non-conforming CSV and vCard implementations =97, the original reference is not lost and the revision approval has clearly defined proce= ss. The failure to keep those means of data exchange standardized and interoperable opens space to the abuses described in [1]. > Also I think having a bunch of semi-official channel using > Non-FreeSoftware like Riot does't help anybody. > [=85] > Disclaimer: I am NOT saying to use Riot or any other proprietary > client. The only free/libre one I have heard so far is purple-matrix for libpurpl= e. > I would like to ask is it in the works to have an official FSF/GNU > server in the future? Are there any blockers I can help with? FSF already has XMPP service for their associate members. # References [1]: , under CC-BY-SA-3.0-US, according to . --=20 * Ativista do software livre * https://libreplanet.org/wiki/User:Adfeno * Membro dos grupos avaliadores de * Software (Free Software Directory) * Distribui=E7=F5es de sistemas (FreedSoftware) * Sites (Free JavaScript Action Team) * N=E3o sou advogado e n=E3o fomento os n=E3o livres * Sempre veja o spam/lixo eletr=F4nico do teu e-mail * Ou coloque todos os recebidos na caixa de entrada * Sempre assino e-mails com OpenPGP * Chave p=FAblica: vide endere=E7o anterior * Qualquer outro pode ser fraude * Se n=E3o tens OpenPGP, ignore o anexo "signature.asc" * Ao enviar anexos * Docs., planilhas e apresenta=E7=F5es: use OpenDocument * Outros tipos: vide endere=E7o anterior * Use protocolos de comunica=E7=E3o federadas * Vide endere=E7o anterior * Mensagens secretas somente via * XMPP com OMEMO * E-mail criptografado e assinado com OpenPGP --RIi4Kjs318IH3vFc7Dz9lAB2UNeKHHrtI-- --2upEORASSaRpqTUspLB49Upml7cWAsP09 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iF4EAREIAAYFAl8a9JQACgkQyNbhUgHunaGDfQD/eN6bWBhhO/qqzfNUdR4pFMwQ j7VGL2H+RrvSolB15j8A/ieYAJczXJ0b33CURw5bC8Cd5EJT/yRBG+gDBrvV/yqu =BzJ2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --2upEORASSaRpqTUspLB49Upml7cWAsP09-- --===============6755998970943930084== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KbGlicmVwbGFu ZXQtZGlzY3VzcyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QKbGlicmVwbGFuZXQtZGlzY3Vzc0BsaWJyZXBsYW5ldC5v cmcKaHR0cHM6Ly9saXN0cy5saWJyZXBsYW5ldC5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9saWJyZXBs YW5ldC1kaXNjdXNz --===============6755998970943930084==--