Hello! So I created these places: https://mobilizon.fr/@digital_commons https://github.com/yugawara/digitalcommons I hope like-minded people can start to add contents and we can make it better over a long time! I can make anyone intested an 'Administrator'. My hope is that we can put together our collective thoughts and analyze them. There are endless possibilities here - we can collect links, develop software, anything we want! Regarding 'marketing', that's definitely important - we can share information and develop strategies here! -Yasu On Mon, 2022-05-23 at 15:38 +0000, Lori Nagel via libreplanet-discuss wrote: >   >   > I was reading yourlong email, and this has been on my mind for a long > time, but inorder to get the freedom respecting software technology > into thehands of everyone for everything instead of proprietary > software,what you have to solve is not a technology problem, but a > marketingproblem. > > > > > If you think abouthow we got to the state we are in today, with > proprietary softwaredominating in certain areas of computing, you > have to remember thatthe reason for that is because of marketing, not > because the productsare better, but because of how people know about > it, and the socialrelationships between people. Just because software > has always beenpromoted a certain way, or that even it is promoted in > a differentway does not mean we have to keep doing it that way. > > > > > I keep thinkingabout what you said, how asking questions is a skill > that is honedwith practice, and not everyone has mastered it, and how > it goes overdifferently with different audiences. Then you talk about > all thosenewbie questions and how people just want their stuff to > work. > > > > > Why should peoplehave to answer endless newbie questions for free all > the time, whycan’t that be a paid job? Why wouldn’t people pay > someone tohold their hand and basically help them through everything? > > > > > A lot of thethinking about this kind of thing comes from people in > the technologyspace, people who like to fool around for hours on end > to get thingsto work, rather than just ask someone and have it done > in fiveseconds. We have this fascination with technology and are > happy to,for hours on end, get the search engines to hopefully bring > inrelevant results and then tweak them until it works. > > > > > Yet, once you are inthe mindset of a tech person, how can you get > into the mindset ofyour opposite, the marketing person selling > memberships, themulti-level network marketer, a person whose focus is > on people,marketing and selling, not technology? > > > > > The thing withmarketing, is it is just as innovative as technology, > and techniquesthat worked to get peoples attention and get them to > buy are alwayschanging, and yet the principles are timeless. You have > to get theproduct in front of an audience and convince people that it > is theproduct for them, or that it is the service for them. > > > > > So, with that I havesome questions. What if we improved tech support > by bringing peoplein who speak the customers own language in terms > they can understand? What if we brought people in whose strengths > were not so focused onthe technology piece, but on the human piece, > and focused on the waypeople use technology rather than trying to > turn everyone into a techguru? > > > > > I’ve oftenwondered if certain strategies used in marketing focused > businessescould be used for tech support. What if the person selling > thesupport could be responsible for the people they bring in, > forgetting them the help that they want with freedom > respectingsoftware? What if it was not about trying to save money, > but peoplebuying a membership in a community where they feel welcome > andunderstood? > > > > > I’m only oneperson, and I certainly don’t have all the answers, and I > don’texpect technology focused people to necessarily wrap their > headsaround the idea that people are literally buying into this idea > of acommunity and not a product or service. But, yet this is > essentiallywhat the free software foundation is, and we need to take > thisconcept and expand it. We need to reach new markets through > peoplewhose primary interest is in marketing and relationships. > > > > > I really think thisneeds to be discussed further. I do not think the > issues areunsolvable, but that they will require always going outside > of ourcommunities, but also going outside our own modes of thought > andbecoming our opposites. > >     On Sunday, May 22, 2022, 08:56:00 PM EDT, Yasuaki Kudo > wrote:  >   >  With partners, I am currently trying to start a "digital commons > movement", if you will, a community where people learn together and > rebuild a new collaborative society based on partnership of the > equals, and I stress this term equal partnership - zero hierarchy, > zero "come back later when you know know how to ask better > questions", zero knowledge worshipping, zero founder, zero leadership > - initially focused on the digital domain to bootstrap the movement. > >  In such a community, yes, any question, suggestion or statement will > be welcome!  They are not only welcome but will probably form the > backbone of the society. > > Erica's really good points and many others we discussed here such as > the twitter replacement, make me think that time is ripe for this. > > In the community I am thinking of, Free Software will be an important > part but it will not be the end goal or the most dominant focus. > > Rather, Free Software will be a natural choice, because the software > requirements of the community will require that kind of licensing as > the bare minimum standard. > > But it won't be just married to Free Software, either.  The software > licensing is just a part its concern and it will also have > discussions of how to take advantage of proprietary systems. > > IPhone maybe a totally locked system but it doesn't stop us from > accessing homepages built with Free Software.  Windows is proprietary > but WSL2 makes available a Linux subsystem on top of it. > > Gradually transitioning from Proprietary to Free is a perfectly good > strategy, in my opinion.  If I may add, what else is a proprietary > system good for, other than to make the transition to the Free? > > If anyone reading this is interested, you can contact me personally > 😄  - let's make it happen! > > -Yasu +81.90.6523.2640 yasu@yasuaki.com http://yasuaki.com > > On May 23, 2022, at 01:24, Jean Louis wrote: > > > > * Erica Frank [2022-05-19 22:30]: > > > It's increasingly clear to me that the free software movement has > > > little > > > interest in outreach to the general non-coder/non-developer > > > public, and > > > this reply just reinforces my belief. > > > > That is not true. > > > > That is your personal impression, though it is not objectively > > true. > > > > Free software movement is really huge, large community. Many large > > companies are inside of it, including Google, Redhat, Lenovo, > > including Microsoft, and too many users and developers, so it is > > very > > out of proportion to claim how "free software ovement" has "little > > interest" in outreach to general public. > > > > We talk mostly of GNU system based on Linux kernel. > > > > GNU/Linux FAQ by Richard Stallman > > https://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-linux-faq.html > > > > But for those who refer to system incorrectly with "Linux" only, > > there > > are many many online references guiding people to install GNU/Linux > > on > > their computers. > > > > How to Install Linux > > https://www.howtogeek.com/693588/how-to-install-linux/ > > > > Install Linux | Simple Guide For Installation of Linux in Windows > > https://www.educba.com/install-linux/ > > > > How to Install Linux: 13 Steps (with Pictures) - wikiHow > > https://www.wikihow.com/Install-Linux > > > > How to Install Linux on Any PC or Laptop > > https://www.makeuseof.com/how-to-install-linux/ > > > > How to Install Linux | Operating Systems | Lenovo US > > https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/faqs/operating-systems/how-to-install-linux/?orgRef=https%253A%252F%252Fduckduckgo.com%252F > > > > How to Download and Install Linux (Ubuntu) on Windows PC > > https://www.guru99.com/install-linux.html > > > > How to install Linux step-by-step - Like Geeks > > https://likegeeks.com/how-to-install-linux/ > > > > How to Install Linux (Ubuntu) on Windows 10 [Ultimate Guide 2022] > > https://www.partitionwizard.com/partitionmagic/install-linux-on-windows-10.html > > > > How to Install Linux on a Mac : HelloTech How > > https://www.hellotech.com/guide/for/how-to-install-linux-on-mac > > > > How to get started with Linux: A beginner’s guide > > https://www.pcworld.com/article/427298/how-to-get-started-with-linux-a-beginners-guide.html > > > > How to install Linux - CNET > > https://www.cnet.com/tech/computing/how-to-install-linux/ > > > > How to Install Linux from a USB Flash Drive - TechDim > > https://www.techdim.com/how-to-install-linux/ > > > > How to Install Linux on Windows 10 : HelloTech How > > https://www.hellotech.com/guide/for/how-to-install-linux-on-windows-10 > > > > Install WSL | Microsoft Docs > > https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/install > > > > How to Install Linux from ISO to Installed - Linux.com > > https://www.linux.com/training-tutorials/how-install-linux-iso-installed/ > > > > How to install Linux in 3 steps | Opensource.com > > https://opensource.com/article/21/2/linux-installation > > > > How to Install Ubuntu Linux on your Dell Computer | Dell US > > https://www.dell.com/support/kbdoc/en-us/000131655/how-to-install-ubuntu-linux-on-your-dell-pc > > > > The Complete Beginner's Guide to Linux - Linux.com > > https://www.linux.com/training-tutorials/complete-beginners-guide-linux/ > > > > ▷ Linux Tutorial For Beginners | Step By Step Linux Guide 2022 > > https://mindmajix.com/linux-tutorial > > > > A Beginners’ Guide to Linux > > https://linuxhint.com/linux-beginner-guide/ > > > > Linux Tutorial | A Basic Guide to Linux For Beginners > > https://www.educba.com/software-development/software-development-tutorials/linux-tutorial/ > > > > Beginner's Guide to Linux System Administration - GeeksforGeeks > > https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/beginners-guide-to-linux-system-administration/ > > > > Introducing Linux: Ultimate Beginner's Guide > > https://www.fossmint.com/introducing-linux-ultimate-beginners-guide/ > > > > The Linux command line for beginners | Ubuntu > > https://ubuntu.com/tutorials/command-line-for-beginners#1-overview > > > > UNIX / Linux Tutorial for Beginners: Learn Online in 7 days > > https://www.guru99.com/unix-linux-tutorial.html > > > > Linux Tutorial for Beginners - Learn Linux and the Bash Command > > Line > > https://ryanstutorials.net/linuxtutorial/ > > > > How to Learn Linux: A Step-By-Step Guide | Career Karma > > https://careerkarma.com/blog/how-to-learn-linux/ > > > > Beginners Guide To Using Linux - A Linux command cheat sheet | > > Linuxlookup > > https://www.linuxlookup.com/beginners_guide_using_linux > > > > Beginner Geek: How to Start Using the Linux Terminal > > https://www.howtogeek.com/140679/beginner-geek-how-to-start-using-the-linux-terminal/ > > > > A Beginner's Guide to Linux – The Midphase Blog > > https://www.midphase.com/blog/a-beginners-guide-to-linux/ > > > > A Beginner's Guide to Getting Started in Linux > > https://www.techopedia.com/2/25663/software/operating-systems/a-beginners-guide-to-getting-started-in-linux > > > > Linux Tutorial for Beginners: Introduction to Linux Operating > > System - YouTube > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1y-mbWM3B8 > > > > A Beginner's Guide to the Linux Command Line | TechSpot > > https://www.techspot.com/guides/835-linux-command-line-basics/ > > > > Beginner's guide to Linux: where to start | TechRadar > > https://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/beginner-s-guide-to-linux-where-to-start-1066778 > > > > The above list is just a fraction of references, easily to find > > within > > 10 seconds of work. It is my Dynamic Knowledge Repository that > > stores > > the information and that helps me to quickly reference it: > > > > Hyperscope - Dynamic Knowledge Repository > > https://hyperscope.link/index.html > > > > About Dynamic Knowledge Repositories (DKR) > > https://www.dougengelbart.org/content/view/190/163/ > > > > Thus one can objectively conclude that large number of largest > > companies, users and developers are interested to help beginners to > > get along with GNU/Linux systems. > > > > > Stating that support for free software " is done on numerous > > > mailing lists, > > > forums, IRC" - is not helpful. > > > > I understand that you could not get help, sorry, I cannot know why > > exactly, maybe is problem with searching on Internet, or maybe > > accessing different ways of getting help. > > > > There are also professionals who will come to your home and help > > you > > with whatever free software. You pay for service, and you get > > assistance. If you tell me where you are located, I can definitely > > find you people who can come and personally help you with > > installations or software. There are those teaching others > > computing. > > > > > Yes, I can review the list of free software distros and install > > > one > > > and go looking for support if I need it. But why would I? > > > > Opps, I am reading your emails while answering. So you mean, that > > there is nothing for beginners, or you mean there is something for > > beginners, and you already found it, but it is not helpful because > > you > > would not install it. That is quite a different issue. > > > > Nobody forces you to install anything. Who said GNU/Linux is for > > everybody. You have plenty of choices for computing, it is all your > > choice. > > > > > I don't see any value in switching from Windows to Linux, other > > > than > > > an abstract sense of "I would not be supporting Microsoft's > > > attempted monopoly." > > > > While it is not important for you, many people do understand the > > importance of free software. > > > > What is Free Software? - GNU Project - Free Software Foundation > > https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html > > > > And if you do not see the above free software freedoms as > > important, > > feel free to continue with proprietary software. It is your life, > > your > > information, your computer. > > > > There may be some other arguments for free software: > > > > What Is Linux and Why Is It Important? > > https://www.makeuseof.com/what-is-linux-why-is-it-important/ > > > > Why Use Linux? Here are the Reasons Why You Should > > https://itsfoss.com/why-use-linux/ > > > > > (My adult daughters both use Linux because they were increasingly > > > annoyed > > > with Windows' invasive OS. However, I use Windows for work; I > > > don't have > > > the option to switch entirely. Several programs I use don't have > > > Linux > > > versions, and my daughters' experiences with WINE make me leery > > > of trying. > > > I can't afford to run into snags that take several hours to fix > > > as I wade > > > through various help forums trying to find the one that has an > > > answer that > > > actually works.) > > > > That is how it is, life is not a dream. > > > > > Ah. It sounds like you have infinite time available to work on > > > software > > > projects, instead of using software to do things. > > > > But how do you know it? > > > > Did you ever come on idea that reason why developers develop > > software > > is because they are themselves using it to do things? > > > > For example, I am developing my database, but probably 99.9% of > > time I > > spend using the database. The things I do are such as recording > > geographic positions, images, field reports into the database, any > > kind of information, indexing, then relating it to people, > > assigning > > tasks, projects, sending SMS from computer, initiating phone calls > > straight, faster from computer with quick to edit notes. Some of > > things I do is about to help Italian investors purchase coffee from > > Uganda, Russian people to find their gold mining sites, some > > individial businessmen to start their businesses. So I gave you on > > my > > personal example, how the time is available to do things. > > > > > "Just search for a list of options, pick one of the three dozen > > > results, install that one, search for its help forums, figure out > > > how to join the relevant email lists, and ask for help; make sure > > > to > > > provide the technical details they require and search for > > > definitions of the vocabulary used in the responses." > > > > > > > That's fine for a personal project; it utterly fails as a premise > > > for a > > > school or business switching to a less-popular OS. Again: Why > > > would they > > > bother? They have an OS that works. > > > > That such informational resources utterly fail like you say is > > unknown > > to me. But how do you know it? > > > > Free software is not there for reason to be popular, more or less > > popular, the reasons I gave you are four freedoms. I do understand > > that people are drawn by what is popular, and that there are many > > other reasons for choices. > > > > The role of Linux and computers in schools > > http://www.linfo.org/linux_educ.html > > > > Linux in Indiana Schools > > http://indianalinux.blogspot.com/ > > > > Indiana schools enroll Linux - CNET > > https://www.cnet.com/tech/tech-industry/indiana-schools-enroll-linux/ > > > > Which Linux distributions are best for schools? | Open School > > Solutions > > https://openschoolsolutions.org/which-linux-distributions-are-best-for-schools/ > > > > Best Educational Linux Distros for Children & Schools [2022] > > https://itsfoss.com/educational-linux-distros/ > > > > The role of Linux and computers in schools > > http://www.linfo.org/linux_educ.html > > > > That it utterly fails in schools can't objectively be said. > > > > Then if you are only in the US and speak only English, you may not > > have access to information in French, Italian, German and other > > foreign language speaking resource to understand how much GNU/Linux > > is > > used in schools. > > > > Example: > > Linux in der Schule – Freie Open Source Software in der Schule > > https://linux-bildung.at/ > > > > For business I should not tell anything, we know that 56% > > developers > > are using GNU/Linux, those developers work for businesses. > > > > In fact, you are using Gmail service that runs on GNU/Linux. That > > is > > far from Linux-based systems and "utterly" failing in businesses. > > > > (13) Which Linux distribution does Google run on its production > > servers? - Quora > > https://www.quora.com/Which-Linux-distribution-does-Google-run-on-its-production-servers?share=1 > > > > > I do book publishing. I use InDesign for layout. I use Word to > > > set up > > > documents with styles that import to InDesign. InDesign doesn't > > > import > > > LaTeX docs, and a quick check says LaTeX won't save out as .doc. > > > I did some research into using LaTeX for layout, but could not > > > confirm that > > > it had the necessary layout features. Most crucial was having > > > standard text > > > lines match position across columns and pages, regardless of any > > > irregular > > > formatting included. I remember also hearing about issues with > > > headers/footers, but the leading match was the key issue that > > > convinced me > > > to stop looking at it. > > > > Those are probably funamentally different tools, one is > > proprietary, > > other one LaTeX is free software running on any operating system, > > one > > is visual, other one is text setting software. They are hardly to > > be > > compared. But OK. > > > > What you mention as most crucial reminds me of LaTeX features. > > > > I do not think that for quick visual placement of pictures and > > text, > > one shall use LaTeX. but it is possible, more visual tool is: > > > > Get Scribus – Scribus > > https://www.scribus.net/downloads/ > > > > in connection with Gimp and Inkscape. > > > > We are in different mind sets, as if you do not find a feature you > > need, you grab and stay with proprietary software. > > > > And me, if I do not have a feature that I need, I find it and find > > solution and make it happen. > > > > Because there is GIMP, Inkscape, Scribus, TeX and LaTeX, there is > > LibreOffice, then me personally really satisfy all my graphics and > > desktop publishing related needs. > > > > But my mind set is different, as if I cannot get things done on > > GNU/Linux, I get things done on GNU/Linux. > > > > For me, proprietary software is not an option. > > > > Though on mobile phones is almost impossible to avoid it. And we > > use > > such phones in business. But then all proprietary software and > > Google > > applications get blocked, and researchers are sent to field, > > working > > with free software. > > > > > Maybe it could work. But I'm not putting dozens of hours into > > > researching and learning the program to find out it can't. I need > > > complex and specific layout options, and searching the web has > > > not > > > turned up info on whether LaTeX or other programs has those > > > features. > > > > Learning is required. > > > > I can tell you one thing -- back in 1999 I have been accomplishing > > any > > graphics needs with GNU/Linux like I am doing it today 2022. I was > > using back in time if I remember well, just XFig software, and I > > did > > make money with it, I have beend disseminating posters and flyers > > all > > over Stuttgart, Germany. > > > > > I am not saying "everyone needs Word & similar programs." > > > (Certainly not > > > saying "everyone needs InDesign or similar.") I'm saying that I > > > haven't > > > found open-source software, much less free software, that covers > > > my > > > professional document needs. That problem carries over for most > > > businesses > > > and most schools. > > > > You have not made specific request, maybe you should. > > > > > "People should be using markup instead of WYSIWYG" is a fine > > > philosophical > > > statement but does absolutely nothing to convince people to use > > > the > > > software. (Especially when support for markup languages varies > > > greatly by > > > device and software.) > > > > I don't think markup and visual tools do the same purpose. Anyway, > > make your specific request, there must be way to solve that issue > > of > > margins you said. > > > > > > -- > > Jean > > > > Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: > > https://www.fsf.org/campaigns > > > > In support of Richard M. Stallman > > https://stallmansupport.org/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > libreplanet-discuss mailing list > > libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org > > https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss > > _______________________________________________ > libreplanet-discuss mailing list > libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org > https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss >   >    I was reading your long email, and this has been on my mind for a > long >    time, but in order to get the freedom respecting software > technology >    into the hands of everyone for everything instead of proprietary >    software, what you have to solve is not a technology problem, but > a >    marketing problem. > >    If you think about how we got to the state we are in today, with >    proprietary software dominating in certain areas of computing, you > have >    to remember that the reason for that is because of marketing, not >    because the products are better, but because of how people know > about >    it, and the social relationships between people. Just because > software >    has always been promoted a certain way, or that even it is > promoted in >    a different way does not mean we have to keep doing it that way. > >    I keep thinking about what you said, how asking questions is a > skill >    that is honed with practice, and not everyone has mastered it, and > how >    it goes over differently with different audiences. Then you talk > about >    all those newbie questions and how people just want their stuff to >    work. > >    Why should people have to answer endless newbie questions for free > all >    the time, why can’t that be a paid job? Why wouldn’t people pay > someone >    to hold their hand and basically help them through everything? > >    A lot of the thinking about this kind of thing comes from people > in the >    technology space, people who like to fool around for hours on end > to >    get things to work, rather than just ask someone and have it done > in >    five seconds. We have this fascination with technology and are > happy >    to, for hours on end, get the search engines to hopefully bring in >    relevant results and then tweak them until it works. > >    Yet, once you are in the mindset of a tech person, how can you get > into >    the mindset of your opposite, the marketing person selling > memberships, >    the multi-level network marketer, a person whose focus is on > people, >    marketing and selling, not technology? > >    The thing with marketing, is it is just as innovative as > technology, >    and techniques that worked to get peoples attention and get them > to buy >    are always changing, and yet the principles are timeless. You have > to >    get the product in front of an audience and convince people that > it is >    the product for them, or that it is the service for them. > >    So, with that I have some questions. What if we improved tech > support >    by bringing people in who speak the customers own language in > terms >    they can understand? What if we brought people in whose strengths > were >    not so focused on the technology piece, but on the human piece, > and >    focused on the way people use technology rather than trying to > turn >    everyone into a tech guru? > >    I’ve often wondered if certain strategies used in marketing > focused >    businesses could be used for tech support. What if the person > selling >    the support could be responsible for the people they bring in, for >    getting them the help that they want with freedom respecting > software? >    What if it was not about trying to save money, but people buying a >    membership in a community where they feel welcome and understood? > >    I’m only one person, and I certainly don’t have all the answers, > and I >    don’t expect technology focused people to necessarily wrap their > heads >    around the idea that people are literally buying into this idea of > a >    community and not a product or service. But, yet this is > essentially >    what the free software foundation is, and we need to take this > concept >    and expand it. We need to reach new markets through people whose >    primary interest is in marketing and relationships. > >    I really think this needs to be discussed further. I do not think > the >    issues are unsolvable, but that they will require always going > outside >    of our communities, but also going outside our own modes of > thought and >    becoming our opposites. > >    On Sunday, May 22, 2022, 08:56:00 PM EDT, Yasuaki Kudo >    wrote: >    With partners, I am currently trying to start a "digital commons >    movement", if you will, a community where people learn together > and >    rebuild a new collaborative society based on partnership of the > equals, >    and I stress this term equal partnership - zero hierarchy, zero > "come >    back later when you know know how to ask better questions", zero >    knowledge worshipping, zero founder, zero leadership - initially >    focused on the digital domain to bootstrap the movement. >    In such a community, yes, any question, suggestion or statement > will be >    welcome!  They are not only welcome but will probably form the > backbone >    of the society. >    Erica's really good points and many others we discussed here such > as >    the twitter replacement, make me think that time is ripe for this. >    In the community I am thinking of, Free Software will be an > important >    part but it will not be the end goal or the most dominant focus. >    Rather, Free Software will be a natural choice, because the > software >    requirements of the community will require that kind of licensing > as >    the bare minimum standard. >    But it won't be just married to Free Software, either.  The > software >    licensing is just a part its concern and it will also have > discussions >    of how to take advantage of proprietary systems. >    IPhone maybe a totally locked system but it doesn't stop us from >    accessing homepages built with Free Software.  Windows is > proprietary >    but WSL2 makes available a Linux subsystem on top of it. >    Gradually transitioning from Proprietary to Free is a perfectly > good >    strategy, in my opinion.  If I may add, what else is a proprietary >    system good for, other than to make the transition to the Free? >    If anyone reading this is interested, you can contact me > personally 😄 >    - let's make it happen! >    -Yasu +81.90.6523.2640 [1]yasu@yasuaki.com [2]http://yasuaki.com >    On May 23, 2022, at 01:24, Jean Louis <[3]bugs@gnu.support> wrote: >    > >    > * Erica Frank <[4]e.lynn.frank@gmail.com> [2022-05-19 22:30]: >    >> It's increasingly clear to me that the free software movement > has >    little >    >> interest in outreach to the general non-coder/non-developer > public, >    and >    >> this reply just reinforces my belief. >    > >    > That is not true. >    > >    > That is your personal impression, though it is not objectively > true. >    > >    > Free software movement is really huge, large community. Many > large >    > companies are inside of it, including Google, Redhat, Lenovo, >    > including Microsoft, and too many users and developers, so it is > very >    > out of proportion to claim how "free software ovement" has > "little >    > interest" in outreach to general public. >    > >    > We talk mostly of GNU system based on Linux kernel. >    > >    > GNU/Linux FAQ by Richard Stallman >    > [5]https://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-linux-faq.html >    > >    > But for those who refer to system incorrectly with "Linux" only, >    there >    > are many many online references guiding people to install > GNU/Linux >    on >    > their computers. >    > >    > How to Install Linux >    > [6]https://www.howtogeek.com/693588/how-to-install-linux/ >    > >    > Install Linux | Simple Guide For Installation of Linux in > Windows >    > [7]https://www.educba.com/install-linux/ >    > >    > How to Install Linux: 13 Steps (with Pictures) - wikiHow >    > [8]https://www.wikihow.com/Install-Linux >    > >    > How to Install Linux on Any PC or Laptop >    > [9]https://www.makeuseof.com/how-to-install-linux/ >    > >    > How to Install Linux | Operating Systems | Lenovo US >    > >    > [10]https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/faqs/operating-systems/how-to-install > - >    linux/?orgRef=https%253A%252F%252Fduckduckgo.com%252F >    > >    > How to Download and Install Linux (Ubuntu) on Windows PC >    > [11]https://www.guru99.com/install-linux.html >    > >    > How to install Linux step-by-step - Like Geeks >    > [12]https://likegeeks.com/how-to-install-linux/ >    > >    > How to Install Linux (Ubuntu) on Windows 10 [Ultimate Guide > 2022] >    > >    > [13]https://www.partitionwizard.com/partitionmagic/install-linux-on-win >    dows-10.html >    > >    > How to Install Linux on a Mac : HelloTech How >    > > [14]https://www.hellotech.com/guide/for/how-to-install-linux-on-mac >    > >    > How to get started with Linux: A beginner’s guide >    > >    > [15]https://www.pcworld.com/article/427298/how-to-get-started-with-linu >    x-a-beginners-guide.html >    > >    > How to install Linux - CNET >    > [16]https://www.cnet.com/tech/computing/how-to-install-linux/ >    > >    > How to Install Linux from a USB Flash Drive - TechDim >    > [17]https://www.techdim.com/how-to-install-linux/ >    > >    > How to Install Linux on Windows 10 : HelloTech How >    > >    > [18]https://www.hellotech.com/guide/for/how-to-install-linux-on-windows >    -10 >    > >    > Install WSL | Microsoft Docs >    > [19]https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/install >    > >    > How to Install Linux from ISO to Installed - Linux.com >    > >    > [20]https://www.linux.com/training-tutorials/how-install-linux-iso-inst >    alled/ >    > >    > How to install Linux in 3 steps | Opensource.com >    > [21]https://opensource.com/article/21/2/linux-installation >    > >    > How to Install Ubuntu Linux on your Dell Computer | Dell US >    > >    > [22]https://www.dell.com/support/kbdoc/en-us/000131655/how-to-install-u >    buntu-linux-on-your-dell-pc >    > >    > The Complete Beginner's Guide to Linux - Linux.com >    > >    > [23]https://www.linux.com/training-tutorials/complete-beginners-guide-l >    inux/ >    > >    > ▷ Linux Tutorial For Beginners | Step By Step Linux Guide 2022 >    > [24]https://mindmajix.com/linux-tutorial >    > >    > A Beginners’ Guide to Linux >    > [25]https://linuxhint.com/linux-beginner-guide/ >    > >    > Linux Tutorial | A Basic Guide to Linux For Beginners >    > >    > [26]https://www.educba.com/software-development/software-development-tu >    torials/linux-tutorial/ >    > >    > Beginner's Guide to Linux System Administration - GeeksforGeeks >    > >    > [27]https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/beginners-guide-to-linux-system-admin >    istration/ >    > >    > Introducing Linux: Ultimate Beginner's Guide >    > >    > [28]https://www.fossmint.com/introducing-linux-ultimate-beginners-guide >    / >    > >    > The Linux command line for beginners | Ubuntu >    > >    > [29]https://ubuntu.com/tutorials/command-line-for-beginners#1-overview >    > >    > UNIX / Linux Tutorial for Beginners: Learn Online in 7 days >    > [30]https://www.guru99.com/unix-linux-tutorial.html >    > >    > Linux Tutorial for Beginners - Learn Linux and the Bash Command > Line >    > [31]https://ryanstutorials.net/linuxtutorial/ >    > >    > How to Learn Linux: A Step-By-Step Guide | Career Karma >    > [32]https://careerkarma.com/blog/how-to-learn-linux/ >    > >    > Beginners Guide To Using Linux - A Linux command cheat sheet | >    Linuxlookup >    > [33]https://www.linuxlookup.com/beginners_guide_using_linux >    > >    > Beginner Geek: How to Start Using the Linux Terminal >    > >    > [34]https://www.howtogeek.com/140679/beginner-geek-how-to-start-using-t >    he-linux-terminal/ >    > >    > A Beginner's Guide to Linux – The Midphase Blog >    > [35]https://www.midphase.com/blog/a-beginners-guide-to-linux/ >    > >    > A Beginner's Guide to Getting Started in Linux >    > >    > [36]https://www.techopedia.com/2/25663/software/operating-systems/a-beg >    inners-guide-to-getting-started-in-linux >    > >    > Linux Tutorial for Beginners: Introduction to Linux Operating > System >    - YouTube >    > [37]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1y-mbWM3B8 >    > >    > A Beginner's Guide to the Linux Command Line | TechSpot >    > > [38]https://www.techspot.com/guides/835-linux-command-line-basics/ >    > >    > Beginner's guide to Linux: where to start | TechRadar >    > >    > [39]https://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/beginner > - >    s-guide-to-linux-where-to-start-1066778 >    > >    > The above list is just a fraction of references, easily to find >    within >    > 10 seconds of work. It is my Dynamic Knowledge Repository that > stores >    > the information and that helps me to quickly reference it: >    > >    > Hyperscope - Dynamic Knowledge Repository >    > [40]https://hyperscope.link/index.html >    > >    > About Dynamic Knowledge Repositories (DKR) >    > [41]https://www.dougengelbart.org/content/view/190/163/ >    > >    > Thus one can objectively conclude that large number of largest >    > companies, users and developers are interested to help beginners > to >    > get along with GNU/Linux systems. >    > >    >> Stating that support for free software " is done on numerous > mailing >    lists, >    >> forums, IRC" - is not helpful. >    > >    > I understand that you could not get help, sorry, I cannot know > why >    > exactly, maybe is problem with searching on Internet, or maybe >    > accessing different ways of getting help. >    > >    > There are also professionals who will come to your home and help > you >    > with whatever free software. You pay for service, and you get >    > assistance. If you tell me where you are located, I can > definitely >    > find you people who can come and personally help you with >    > installations or software. There are those teaching others >    > computing. >    > >    >> Yes, I can review the list of free software distros and install > one >    >> and go looking for support if I need it. But why would I? >    > >    > Opps, I am reading your emails while answering. So you mean, > that >    > there is nothing for beginners, or you mean there is something > for >    > beginners, and you already found it, but it is not helpful > because >    you >    > would not install it. That is quite a different issue. >    > >    > Nobody forces you to install anything. Who said GNU/Linux is for >    > everybody. You have plenty of choices for computing, it is all > your >    > choice. >    > >    >> I don't see any value in switching from Windows to Linux, other > than >    >> an abstract sense of "I would not be supporting Microsoft's >    >> attempted monopoly." >    > >    > While it is not important for you, many people do understand the >    > importance of free software. >    > >    > What is Free Software? - GNU Project - Free Software Foundation >    > [42]https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html >    > >    > And if you do not see the above free software freedoms as > important, >    > feel free to continue with proprietary software. It is your > life, >    your >    > information, your computer. >    > >    > There may be some other arguments for free software: >    > >    > What Is Linux and Why Is It Important? >    > [43]https://www.makeuseof.com/what-is-linux-why-is-it-important/ >    > >    > Why Use Linux? Here are the Reasons Why You Should >    > [44]https://itsfoss.com/why-use-linux/ >    > >    >> (My adult daughters both use Linux because they were > increasingly >    annoyed >    >> with Windows' invasive OS. However, I use Windows for work; I > don't >    have >    >> the option to switch entirely. Several programs I use don't > have >    Linux >    >> versions, and my daughters' experiences with WINE make me leery > of >    trying. >    >> I can't afford to run into snags that take several hours to fix > as I >    wade >    >> through various help forums trying to find the one that has an >    answer that >    >> actually works.) >    > >    > That is how it is, life is not a dream. >    > >    >> Ah. It sounds like you have infinite time available to work on >    software >    >> projects, instead of using software to do things. >    > >    > But how do you know it? >    > >    > Did you ever come on idea that reason why developers develop > software >    > is because they are themselves using it to do things? >    > >    > For example, I am developing my database, but probably 99.9% of > time >    I >    > spend using the database. The things I do are such as recording >    > geographic positions, images, field reports into the database, > any >    > kind of information, indexing, then relating it to people, > assigning >    > tasks, projects, sending SMS from computer, initiating phone > calls >    > straight, faster from computer with quick to edit notes. Some of >    > things I do is about to help Italian investors purchase coffee > from >    > Uganda, Russian people to find their gold mining sites, some >    > individial businessmen to start their businesses. So I gave you > on my >    > personal example, how the time is available to do things. >    > >    >> "Just search for a list of options, pick one of the three dozen >    >> results, install that one, search for its help forums, figure > out >    >> how to join the relevant email lists, and ask for help; make > sure to >    >> provide the technical details they require and search for >    >> definitions of the vocabulary used in the responses." >    >>> >    >> That's fine for a personal project; it utterly fails as a > premise >    for a >    >> school or business switching to a less-popular OS. Again: Why > would >    they >    >> bother? They have an OS that works. >    > >    > That such informational resources utterly fail like you say is >    unknown >    > to me. But how do you know it? >    > >    > Free software is not there for reason to be popular, more or > less >    > popular, the reasons I gave you are four freedoms. I do > understand >    > that people are drawn by what is popular, and that there are > many >    > other reasons for choices. >    > >    > The role of Linux and computers in schools >    > [45]http://www.linfo.org/linux_educ.html >    > >    > Linux in Indiana Schools >    > [46]http://indianalinux.blogspot.com/ >    > >    > Indiana schools enroll Linux - CNET >    > >    > [47]https://www.cnet.com/tech/tech-industry/indiana-schools-enroll-linu >    x/ >    > >    > Which Linux distributions are best for schools? | Open School >    Solutions >    > >    > [48]https://openschoolsolutions.org/which-linux-distributions-are-best > - >    for-schools/ >    > >    > Best Educational Linux Distros for Children & Schools [2022] >    > [49]https://itsfoss.com/educational-linux-distros/ >    > >    > The role of Linux and computers in schools >    > [50]http://www.linfo.org/linux_educ.html >    > >    > That it utterly fails in schools can't objectively be said. >    > >    > Then if you are only in the US and speak only English, you may > not >    > have access to information in French, Italian, German and other >    > foreign language speaking resource to understand how much > GNU/Linux >    is >    > used in schools. >    > >    > Example: >    > Linux in der Schule – Freie Open Source Software in der Schule >    > [51]https://linux-bildung.at/ >    > >    > For business I should not tell anything, we know that 56% > developers >    > are using GNU/Linux, those developers work for businesses. >    > >    > In fact, you are using Gmail service that runs on GNU/Linux. > That is >    > far from Linux-based systems and "utterly" failing in > businesses. >    > >    > (13) Which Linux distribution does Google run on its production >    servers? - Quora >    > >    > [52]https://www.quora.com/Which-Linux-distribution-does-Google-run-on-i >    ts-production-servers?share=1 >    > >    >> I do book publishing. I use InDesign for layout. I use Word to > set >    up >    >> documents with styles that import to InDesign. InDesign doesn't >    import >    >> LaTeX docs, and a quick check says LaTeX won't save out as > .doc. >    >> I did some research into using LaTeX for layout, but could not >    confirm that >    >> it had the necessary layout features. Most crucial was having >    standard text >    >> lines match position across columns and pages, regardless of > any >    irregular >    >> formatting included. I remember also hearing about issues with >    >> headers/footers, but the leading match was the key issue that >    convinced me >    >> to stop looking at it. >    > >    > Those are probably funamentally different tools, one is > proprietary, >    > other one LaTeX is free software running on any operating > system, one >    > is visual, other one is text setting software. They are hardly > to be >    > compared. But OK. >    > >    > What you mention as most crucial reminds me of LaTeX features. >    > >    > I do not think that for quick visual placement of pictures and > text, >    > one shall use LaTeX. but it is possible, more visual tool is: >    > >    > Get Scribus – Scribus >    > [53]https://www.scribus.net/downloads/ >    > >    > in connection with Gimp and Inkscape. >    > >    > We are in different mind sets, as if you do not find a feature > you >    > need, you grab and stay with proprietary software. >    > >    > And me, if I do not have a feature that I need, I find it and > find >    > solution and make it happen. >    > >    > Because there is GIMP, Inkscape, Scribus, TeX and LaTeX, there > is >    > LibreOffice, then me personally really satisfy all my graphics > and >    > desktop publishing related needs. >    > >    > But my mind set is different, as if I cannot get things done on >    > GNU/Linux, I get things done on GNU/Linux. >    > >    > For me, proprietary software is not an option. >    > >    > Though on mobile phones is almost impossible to avoid it. And we > use >    > such phones in business. But then all proprietary software and > Google >    > applications get blocked, and researchers are sent to field, > working >    > with free software. >    > >    >> Maybe it could work. But I'm not putting dozens of hours into >    >> researching and learning the program to find out it can't. I > need >    >> complex and specific layout options, and searching the web has > not >    >> turned up info on whether LaTeX or other programs has those >    >> features. >    > >    > Learning is required. >    > >    > I can tell you one thing -- back in 1999 I have been > accomplishing >    any >    > graphics needs with GNU/Linux like I am doing it today 2022. I > was >    > using back in time if I remember well, just XFig software, and I > did >    > make money with it, I have beend disseminating posters and > flyers all >    > over Stuttgart, Germany. >    > >    >> I am not saying "everyone needs Word & similar programs." > (Certainly >    not >    >> saying "everyone needs InDesign or similar.") I'm saying that I >    haven't >    >> found open-source software, much less free software, that > covers my >    >> professional document needs. That problem carries over for most >    businesses >    >> and most schools. >    > >    > You have not made specific request, maybe you should. >    > >    >> "People should be using markup instead of WYSIWYG" is a fine >    philosophical >    >> statement but does absolutely nothing to convince people to use > the >    >> software. (Especially when support for markup languages varies >    greatly by >    >> device and software.) >    > >    > I don't think markup and visual tools do the same purpose. > Anyway, >    > make your specific request, there must be way to solve that > issue of >    > margins you said. >    > >    > >    > -- >    > Jean >    > >    > Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: >    > [54]https://www.fsf.org/campaigns >    > >    > In support of Richard M. Stallman >    > [55]https://stallmansupport.org/ >    > >    > _______________________________________________ >    > libreplanet-discuss mailing list >    > [56]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org >    > >    > [57]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss >    _______________________________________________ >    libreplanet-discuss mailing list >    [58]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org >    > [59]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss > > References > >    1. mailto:yasu@yasuaki.com >    2. http://yasuaki.com/ >    3. mailto:bugs@gnu.support >    4. mailto:e.lynn.frank@gmail.com >    5. https://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-linux-faq.html >    6. https://www.howtogeek.com/693588/how-to-install-linux/ >    7. https://www.educba.com/install-linux/ >    8. https://www.wikihow.com/Install-Linux >    9. https://www.makeuseof.com/how-to-install-linux/ >   10. > https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/faqs/operating-systems/how-to-install-linux/?orgRef=https%3A%2F%2Fduckduckgo.com%2F >   11. https://www.guru99.com/install-linux.html >   12. https://likegeeks.com/how-to-install-linux/ >   13. > https://www.partitionwizard.com/partitionmagic/install-linux-on-windows-10.html >   14. https://www.hellotech.com/guide/for/how-to-install-linux-on-mac >   15. > https://www.pcworld.com/article/427298/how-to-get-started-with-linux-a-beginners-guide.html >   16. https://www.cnet.com/tech/computing/how-to-install-linux/ >   17. https://www.techdim.com/how-to-install-linux/ >   18. > https://www.hellotech.com/guide/for/how-to-install-linux-on-windows-10 >   19. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/install >   20. > https://www.linux.com/training-tutorials/how-install-linux-iso-installed/ >   21. https://opensource.com/article/21/2/linux-installation >   22. > https://www.dell.com/support/kbdoc/en-us/000131655/how-to-install-ubuntu-linux-on-your-dell-pc >   23. > https://www.linux.com/training-tutorials/complete-beginners-guide-linux/ >   24. https://mindmajix.com/linux-tutorial >   25. https://linuxhint.com/linux-beginner-guide/ >   26. > https://www.educba.com/software-development/software-development-tutorials/linux-tutorial/ >   27. > https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/beginners-guide-to-linux-system-administration/ >   28. > https://www.fossmint.com/introducing-linux-ultimate-beginners-guide/ >   29. > https://ubuntu.com/tutorials/command-line-for-beginners#1-overview >   30. https://www.guru99.com/unix-linux-tutorial.html >   31. https://ryanstutorials.net/linuxtutorial/ >   32. https://careerkarma.com/blog/how-to-learn-linux/ >   33. https://www.linuxlookup.com/beginners_guide_using_linux >   34. > https://www.howtogeek.com/140679/beginner-geek-how-to-start-using-the-linux-terminal/ >   35. https://www.midphase.com/blog/a-beginners-guide-to-linux/ >   36. > https://www.techopedia.com/2/25663/software/operating-systems/a-beginners-guide-to-getting-started-in-linux >   37. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1y-mbWM3B8 >   38. https://www.techspot.com/guides/835-linux-command-line-basics/ >   39. > https://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/beginner-s-guide-to-linux-where-to-start-1066778 >   40. https://hyperscope.link/index.html >   41. https://www.dougengelbart.org/content/view/190/163/ >   42. https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html >   43. https://www.makeuseof.com/what-is-linux-why-is-it-important/ >   44. https://itsfoss.com/why-use-linux/ >   45. http://www.linfo.org/linux_educ.html >   46. http://indianalinux.blogspot.com/ >   47. > https://www.cnet.com/tech/tech-industry/indiana-schools-enroll-linux/ >   48. > https://openschoolsolutions.org/which-linux-distributions-are-best-for-schools/ >   49. https://itsfoss.com/educational-linux-distros/ >   50. http://www.linfo.org/linux_educ.html >   51. https://linux-bildung.at/ >   52. > https://www.quora.com/Which-Linux-distribution-does-Google-run-on-its-production-servers?share=1 >   53. https://www.scribus.net/downloads/ >   54. https://www.fsf.org/campaigns >   55. https://stallmansupport.org/ >   56. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org >   57. > https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss >   58. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org >   59. > https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss > _______________________________________________ > libreplanet-discuss mailing list > libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org > https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss