Re: The FSF / FSFE sister relationship

Re: The FSF / FSFE sister relationship

[bill-auger]

TBH, it should not be any surprise from where that affiliation
confusion may stem - a quick web search shows that the FSFE presents
itself as part of "The FSF network"[1]
     * 1985: The Free Software Foundation (FSF)
     * 2001: Free Software Foundation Europe (FSFE)
     * 2003: Free Software Foundation India (FSFI)
     * 2005: Free Software Foundation Latin America (FSFLA)

the FSFLA website also lists the four "Sister FSFs":
     * FSF
     * FSF Europe
     * FSF France
     * FSF India

and the wikipedia article[2] says:

  "It is an official European sister organization of the US-based Free
  Software Foundation (FSF)."

im not taking any position on whether there should or should not be an
official affiliation; but AFAIK there is no official co-operation today
among any of them - so words like "network" and "sisters" are
completely vacuous today; nothing more than to recognize the existence
of the others

you may consider engaging all of the five sisters into this conversation
- especially as a conversation with FSF-France may answer the question
of whether others may want to speak for europeans - the FSFE does not
mention that group - so maybe there are more sisters scattered around
the globe that are yet to be recognized as part of the family

the one point i would make would be regarding funding the efforts of
GNU - i often tell people not to conflate the goals or efforts FSF and
GNU - the FSF is a political organization that does not produce
software, GNU makes an operating system without the baggage of
politics, and i think that separation is easily justified

AFAIK, GNU software is created almost exclusively by unpaid volunteers
- the FSF does operate the servers for GNU; but i think that little to
none of the FSF or FSFE funds go directly into software - correct me if
im wrong, o/c :) - but if i am right about that, then anyone who is
donating to FSF or FSFE, while thinking that they are supporting GNU
software should probably be corrected at the onset - they are
supporting the political and publicity efforts of those groups, but not
the creation or maintenance of any software


[1]: https://fsfe.org/about/fsfnetwork.html
[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Software_Foundation_Europe

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The FSF / FSFE sister relationship

[Daniel Pocock]

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Hi everybody,

Ever since I started blogging about my role in FSFE as Fellowship
representative, I've been receiving  communications and queries from
various people, both in public and in private, about the relationship
between FSF and FSFE.  I've written this post to try and document my own
experiences of the issue, maybe some people will find this helpful.

Being the elected Fellowship representative means I am both a member of
FSFE e.V. and also possess a mandate to look out for the interests of
the community of volunteers and donors (they are not members of FSFE
e.V).  In both capacities, I feel uncomfortable about the current
situation due to the confusion it creates in the community and the risk
that volunteers or donors may be confused.

The FSF has a well known name associated with a distinctive philosophy.
Whether people agree with that philosophy or not, they usually know what
FSF believes in.  That is the power of a brand.

When people see the name FSFE, they often believe it is a subsidiary or
group working within the FSF.  The way that brands work, people
associate the philosophy with the name, just as somebody buying a
Ferrari in Berlin expects it to do the same things that a Ferrari does
in Boston.

To give an example, when I refer to "our president" in any conversation,
people not knowledgeable about the politics believe I am referring to
RMS.  More specifically, if I say to somebody "would you like me to see
if our president can speak at your event?", some people think it is a
reference to RMS.  In fact, FSFE was set up as a completely independent
organization with distinct membership and management and therefore a
different president.  When I try to explain this to people, they
sometimes lose interest and the conversation can go cold very quickly.

FSFE leadership have sometimes diverged from FSF philosophy, for
example, it is not hard to find some quotes about "open source" and
one fellow recently expressed concern that some people behave like "FSF
Light".  But given that FSF's crown jewels are the philosophy, how can
an "FSF Light" mean anything?  What would "Ferrari Light" look like, a
red lawnmower?  Would it be a fair use of the name Ferrari?

Some concerned fellows have recently gone as far as accusing the FSFE
staff of effectively domain squatting or trolling the FSF.  When
questions appear about the relationship in public, there is sometimes a
violent response with no firm details.

The FSFE constitution[1] calls on FSFE to "join forces" with the FSF and
sometimes this appears to happen but I feel this could be taken further.

FSF people have also produced vast amounts of code (the GNU Project) and
some donors appear to be contributing funds to FSFE in gratitude for
that or in the belief they are supporting that.  However, it is not
clear to me that funds given to FSFE support that work.  As Fellowship
representative, a big part of my role is to think about the best
interests of those donors and so the possibility that they are being
confused concerns me.

Given the vast amounts of money and goodwill contributed by the
community to FSFE e.V., including a recent bequest of EUR 150,000 and
the direct questions about this issue I feel it is becoming more
important for both organizations to clarify the issue.

FSFE has a transparency page[2] on the web site and this would be a good
place to publish all documents about their relationship with FSF.  For
example, FSFE could publish the documents explaining their authorization
to use a name derived from FSF and the extent to which they are
committed to adhere to FSF's core philosophy and remain true to
that in the long term.    FSF could also publish some guidelines about
the characteristics of a sister organization, especially when that
organization is authorized to share the FSF's name.

In the specific case of sister organizations who benefit from the
tremendous privilege of using the FSF's name, could it also remove
ambiguity if FSF mandated the titles used by officers of sister
organizations?  For example, the "FSFE President" would be referred to
as "FSFE European President", or maybe the word president could be
avoided in all sister organizations.

People also raise the question of whether FSFE can speak for all
Europeans given that it only has a large presence[3] in Germany and
other groups are bigger in other European countries.  Would it be fair
for some of those other groups to aspire to sister organization status
and name-sharing rights too?  Could dozens of smaller FSF sister
organizations dilute the impact of one or two who go off-script?

Even if FSFE was to distance itself from FSF or even start
using a new name and philosophy, as a member, representative and also
volunteer I would feel uncomfortable with that as there is a legacy of
donations and volunteering that have brought FSFE to the position the
organization is in today.

That said, I would like to emphasize that I regard RMS and the FSF, as
the original FSF, as having the final authority over the use of the name
and I fully respect FSF's right to act unilaterally, negotiate with
sister organizations or simply leave things as they are.

Regards,

Daniel


1. https://fsfe.org/about/legal/constitution.en.html
2. https://fsfe.org/about/transparency-commitment.html
3. https://danielpocock.com/who-were-the-fsfe-fellowship






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Re: The FSF / FSFE sister relationship

[Daniel Pocock]

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On 11/09/18 17:09, bill-auger wrote:

> im not taking any position on whether there should or should not be an
> official affiliation; but AFAIK there is no official co-operation today
> among any of them


In FSFE's case, I suspect this is FSF's fault for being to generous and
patient with them but everything else is FSFE's fault.

As a member of the FSFE and in my role as representative, I am deeply
ashamed of the way FSFE e.V. has behaved towards FSF.

FSFE e.V. has basically taken the FSF name, used it to build a community
and collect donations, use volunteers to build their infrastructure and
now they are sidelining the community and becoming something else.

Regards,

Daneil


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