From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on dcvr.yhbt.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-ASN: AS22989 209.51.188.0/24 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.8 required=3.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS shortcircuit=no autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by dcvr.yhbt.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C09631F852 for ; Fri, 21 Jan 2022 19:04:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:53802 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nAzCd-0005lj-Et for e@80x24.org; Fri, 21 Jan 2022 14:04:03 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:50664) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nAwEW-0006Ac-Gq for libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org; Fri, 21 Jan 2022 10:53:48 -0500 Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:50913) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nAwET-0003mt-0r for libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org; Fri, 21 Jan 2022 10:53:46 -0500 Received: from localhost ([::ffff:41.210.154.67]) (AUTH: PLAIN admin, TLS: TLS1.3,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 0000000000038041.0000000061EAD706.00004B1F; Fri, 21 Jan 2022 08:53:42 -0700 Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2022 18:54:14 +0300 From: Jean Louis To: Jacob Hrbek Cc: libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org Subject: Re: RE : Ideas to promote making and using free hardware designs (was Re: FSF continuously harms Free Hardware) Message-ID: References: <1373508721.1305537.1642727119011@connect.xfinity.com> <54895173-d401-cdcb-bc16-01548350b8c1@disroot.org> <7d5d7a9d-d284-c2c1-10ec-bab90730bb4e@rixotstudio.cz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <7d5d7a9d-d284-c2c1-10ec-bab90730bb4e@rixotstudio.cz> User-Agent: Mutt/2.1.5+104 (cd3a5c8) (2022-01-09) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.170.207.13; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=stw1.rcdrun.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 21 Jan 2022 14:03:28 -0500 X-BeenThere: libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: libreplanet-discuss-bounces+e=80x24.org@libreplanet.org Sender: "libreplanet-discuss" * Jacob Hrbek [2022-01-21 18:22]: > I am strictly against paying for freedom, Never in the history of mankind freedom was every free of charge. We all pay for freedom, and we never get it. And if anyting is worth, it is worth paying for freedom. > but i am not against limiting freedom until the development is paid WTF? Am I on the wrong mailing list or you? > assuming that the freedom to study and improve is not violated > (freedom to redistribute can require fee for commercial use) If you require fee for commercial use that is not free software by definition, thus also outside of the scope of subjects on this mailing list. Feel free to exchange though. > and the party is mandated to be transparent about their financing > and license enforces that "when the development cost is paid then > this license automatically removes all restrictions on use and > redistribute" (would be a great if GPLv4 had this clause). Well, it will never be. But keep dreaming. > That said I would like to highlight the case of Purism with Librem 5 > which allegedly does this approach, I did not see they do that approach, maybe you misunderstood something. I find Purism and their hardware some of best attempts to come to free software with free hardware in the world. So their project is just to be supported. They are smaller company, unlike IBM or other hardware companies, and their products will cost rather more than less. That is quite understandable. Try to make computer yourself and you will understand. > but they are not transparent My impression is quite contrary, they are so much transparent. > and are likely abusing their trust by constantly hiring new people > to claim that the development cost increased to infinity which is > terrible for user freedom. That is generalization, I cannot say I condone that neither I agree to that. I do not see problem with user freedom in Purism. Can you be more specific? Then also if you wish to tell something to Purism, why don't you tell it specific to them? Jean Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns In support of Richard M. Stallman https://stallmansupport.org/ _______________________________________________ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss