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From: Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl@lkcl.net>
To: quiliro@riseup.net
Cc: "libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org"
	<libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org>
Subject: Re: Support RMS
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 12:49:09 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAPweEDzhMVSnCWkLD-kMiaVv+KqEnzz=K=gTtJybVts1Y8ZGWg@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87lfa6du4k.fsf@riseup.net>


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On Mon, Mar 29, 2021 at 1:33 PM <quiliro@riseup.net> wrote:

> Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl@lkcl.net> writes:
>
> >  https://www.crnhq.org/cr-kit/
>
> Great document.  Thank you, Luke.  I specially liked the section 2 on
> discovery and creativity.  It gives a whole new perspective about the
> potential for good in conflict.
>
> With this strategy, I think we could summarize that the problem is that
> it hurts some people is Richard's lack of tact on occassions.  But,
> haven't we all had lack of tact at times?  So, the best solution is not
> to cancel him.  The best would be to channel that lack of tact.  I
> suggest we find a way that his anger can be useful for him and everyone
> else, without making rules to control him or to portray him as the cause
> of all evil.
>

in a word... yes.

i do appreciate that i am talking *about* another person (hello Dr Stallman
if
you are reading this).  i have seen the recent announcements - yet more
people who claim to be "inclusive" yet who want to "exclude" Dr Stallman.

this includes the CTO of Redhat, who garnered support for the "outrage"
announcement by polling people internally to find out if they were also
"outraged"

rather than taking an active responsibility for working out an inclusive
solution.

my recommendation is this: contact all these people and ask them instead
of seeking to exclude someone from their inclusive culture, invite Dr
Stallman
to get help and training, recognising first and foremost that he's not in
the
slightest bit "normal", and appreciating that this was what allowed him to
start Free Software in the first place.

it can even be funny, in the form of online "therapy" sessions.  if you are
familiar with Terry Pratchett, you will know of the wizard Rincewind having
to have therapy, described in one of the many footnotes: i do not recall
the details except that it involved a large stick with nails in the end :)

although this suggestion is intended to be funny, it's also intended to be
serious.  the person doing the therapy needs to be a real, qualified
therapist (yet also themselves have a sense of humour), the point being
to get across that first and foremost Dr Stallman is a human being,
second that he's actually trying, and third to find out - clinically and
objectively - if there's even actually anything quotes wrong quotes
with him.  you know what i mean.  no human being has quotes
something wrong with them quotes.

most of all it needs to be taken seriously as a way to teach Dr Stallman
(if indeed it turns out that he does need teaching) what the "right" ways
are to interact with people.

*i don't think anyone's told him that*

consequently people are judging him by "normal" standards of social
behaviour and we know for a fact that Autistic-spectrum individuals,
capable of providing us with so much, just do not adhere to those
standards... *and that's precisely why they achieve so much progress*.

l.

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   On Mon, Mar 29, 2021 at 1:33 PM <[1]quiliro@riseup.net> wrote:

     Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <[2]lkcl@lkcl.net> writes:
     >  [3]https://www.crnhq.org/cr-kit/
     Great document.  Thank you, Luke.  I specially liked the section 2
     on
     discovery and creativity.  It gives a whole new perspective about
     the
     potential for good in conflict.
     With this strategy, I think we could summarize that the problem is
     that
     it hurts some people is Richard's lack of tact on occassions.  But,
     haven't we all had lack of tact at times?  So, the best solution is
     not
     to cancel him.  The best would be to channel that lack of tact.  I
     suggest we find a way that his anger can be useful for him and
     everyone
     else, without making rules to control him or to portray him as the
     cause
     of all evil.

   in a word... yes.
   i do appreciate that i am talking *about* another person (hello Dr
   Stallman if
   you are reading this).  i have seen the recent announcements - yet more
   people who claim to be "inclusive" yet who want to "exclude" Dr
   Stallman.
   this includes the CTO of Redhat, who garnered support for the "outrage"
   announcement by polling people internally to find out if they were also
   "outraged"
   rather than taking an active responsibility for working out an
   inclusive solution.
   my recommendation is this: contact all these people and ask them
   instead
   of seeking to exclude someone from their inclusive culture, invite Dr
   Stallman
   to get help and training, recognising first and foremost that he's not
   in the
   slightest bit "normal", and appreciating that this was what allowed him
   to
   start Free Software in the first place.
   it can even be funny, in the form of online "therapy" sessions.  if you
   are
   familiar with Terry Pratchett, you will know of the wizard Rincewind
   having
   to have therapy, described in one of the many footnotes: i do not
   recall
   the details except that it involved a large stick with nails in the end
   :)
   although this suggestion is intended to be funny, it's also intended to
   be
   serious.  the person doing the therapy needs to be a real, qualified
   therapist (yet also themselves have a sense of humour), the point being
   to get across that first and foremost Dr Stallman is a human being,
   second that he's actually trying, and third to find out - clinically
   and
   objectively - if there's even actually anything quotes wrong quotes
   with him.  you know what i mean.  no human being has quotes
   something wrong with them quotes.
   most of all it needs to be taken seriously as a way to teach Dr
   Stallman
   (if indeed it turns out that he does need teaching) what the "right"
   ways
   are to interact with people.
   *i don't think anyone's told him that*
   consequently people are judging him by "normal" standards of social
   behaviour and we know for a fact that Autistic-spectrum individuals,
   capable of providing us with so much, just do not adhere to those
   standards... *and that's precisely why they achieve so much progress*.
   l.

References

   1. mailto:quiliro@riseup.net
   2. mailto:lkcl@lkcl.net
   3. https://www.crnhq.org/cr-kit/

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  reply	other threads:[~2021-03-29 12:50 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 214+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-03-27  5:08 Support RMS Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2021-03-27  5:32 ` Máirín Duffy
2021-03-27  6:41   ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2021-03-27  5:35 ` Aaron Wolf
2021-03-29 12:25 ` quiliro
2021-03-29 12:49   ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton [this message]
2021-03-29 14:46     ` Jean Louis
2021-03-29 17:34       ` Lusin via libreplanet-discuss
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2021-04-12 11:23 Ali Reza Hayati
2021-04-12 17:32 ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2021-04-12 17:57   ` Ali Reza Hayati
2021-04-12 18:17   ` Jean Louis
2021-04-13  5:37     ` Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss
2021-04-13  5:57       ` Jean Louis
2021-04-13  6:58         ` Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss
2021-04-13 16:44         ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2021-04-13 12:53       ` Dennis Payne
2021-04-13 15:30         ` quiliro
2021-04-14  0:56 ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2021-04-14  1:00   ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-04-14  1:35     ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2021-04-14  1:42       ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-04-14 15:36         ` Deb Nicholson
2021-04-14 19:07           ` Jean Louis
2021-04-14 19:28             ` Deb Nicholson
     [not found]               ` <YHdGE/dikVycAXWJ@protected.localdomain>
2021-04-14 20:00                 ` Deb Nicholson
2021-04-14 20:37                   ` Jean Louis
2021-04-14 20:23               ` Thomas Lord
2021-04-14 20:55                 ` Jean Louis
2021-04-14 23:13                 ` Ali Reza Hayati
2021-04-15  7:51               ` Alexandre Oliva
2021-04-15  1:13           ` quiliro
2021-04-15  1:53             ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-04-15  2:29               ` quiliro
2021-04-15  8:20           ` Alexandre Oliva
2021-04-15 16:13             ` Deb Nicholson
2021-04-15 17:00               ` Ali Reza Hayati
2021-04-15 17:24                 ` Ali Reza Hayati
2021-04-15 17:39                 ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-04-15 17:47                   ` Ali Reza Hayati
2021-04-15 17:51                     ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-04-15 17:43                 ` Aaron Wolf
2021-04-16  0:54                   ` quiliro
2021-04-16  1:12                     ` Aaron Wolf
2021-04-16  3:51                       ` quiliro
2021-04-16  4:59                       ` Jean Louis
2021-04-16  6:04                         ` Aaron Wolf
2021-04-16  6:56                           ` Jean Louis
2021-04-16 16:09                             ` Aaron Wolf
2021-04-16 16:46                               ` Ali Reza Hayati
     [not found]                           ` <orpmysp80e.fsf@lxoliva.fsfla.org>
2021-04-18  4:48                             ` Aaron Wolf
2021-04-18  5:19                               ` Thomas Lord
2021-04-18  5:24                                 ` Thomas Lord
2021-04-15 17:23               ` Thomas Lord
2021-04-15 17:39                 ` Aaron Wolf
2021-04-15 18:43                   ` Jean Louis
2021-04-15 20:59                     ` Aaron Wolf
2021-04-15 22:40                       ` Alexandre Oliva
2021-04-15 22:49                         ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-04-16  4:36                         ` Jean Louis
2021-04-16  4:43                           ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-04-16  5:02                             ` Jean Louis
2021-04-16  5:21                               ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-04-16  6:22                                 ` Jean Louis
2021-04-16  6:48                                   ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-04-16  7:25                                     ` Jean Louis
2021-04-16  8:07                                       ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-04-16 10:48                                         ` Jean Louis
2021-04-16 14:09                                           ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-04-16 14:52                                             ` Deb Nicholson
2021-04-16 19:26                                               ` Jean Louis
     [not found]                                         ` <CAEYaDQNahppkCt5kEytkaJ34a9zoUXt=W93f8sJErsyvceiXYA@mail.gmail.com>
2021-04-16 10:52                                           ` Jean Louis
2021-04-16 21:06                                     ` Thomas Lord
2021-04-16 21:04                                   ` Thomas Lord
2021-04-16 21:49                                     ` Thomas Lord
2021-04-16 22:04                                       ` Aaron Wolf
2021-04-16 22:08                                         ` Thomas Lord
2021-04-16 22:55                                           ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2021-04-16 21:56                                     ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2021-04-16 22:12                                       ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-04-16 22:18                                         ` Thomas Lord
     [not found]                                       ` <YHqAGLJeGFiJTZ2V@protected.localdomain>
2021-04-18 17:15                                         ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2021-04-16  4:45                         ` Jean Louis
2021-04-16  5:00                           ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-04-16  3:45                       ` Jean Louis
2021-04-15 18:44                   ` Lusin via libreplanet-discuss
2021-04-15 18:39               ` Jean Louis
2021-04-15 18:41               ` Jean Louis
2021-04-15 22:19                 ` Alexandre Oliva
2021-04-15 22:34                   ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-04-15 23:37                     ` Alexandre Oliva
2021-04-16  4:49                       ` Jean Louis
2021-04-16  4:21                     ` Jean Louis
2021-04-16  4:20                   ` Jean Louis
2021-04-15 20:15               ` Alexandre Oliva
2021-04-15 21:00                 ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2021-04-15 21:10               ` Matt Ivie
2021-04-16  6:35               ` Federico Leva (Nemo)
2021-04-14 14:48   ` Ali Reza Hayati
2021-04-14 17:19     ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2021-04-14 18:52       ` Jean Louis
2021-04-14 18:23     ` Jean Louis
2021-03-27  6:18 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2021-03-27  5:58 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2021-03-27  6:13 ` Aaron Wolf
2021-03-27  6:23   ` Thomas Lord
2021-03-27  6:25   ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2021-03-27  6:35     ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2021-03-27 11:42       ` Neils Nesse
2021-03-27 12:12         ` Jean Louis
2021-03-27  6:30 ` Jean Louis
2021-03-27 17:45   ` Danny Spitzberg
     [not found]     ` <YF96LdwX+DQx/0FH@protected.localdomain>
2021-03-27 19:07       ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-03-31  0:15         ` quiliro
2021-03-31  0:06     ` quiliro
2021-03-25 23:57 Ali Reza Hayati
2021-03-26  0:19 ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-03-26  1:04   ` Ali Reza Hayati
2021-03-26  1:40     ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2021-03-26  3:29       ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2021-03-26  4:57         ` Jean Louis
2021-03-26  1:47     ` Steve M Bibayoff
2021-03-26 14:50       ` Ali Reza Hayati
2021-03-26 15:54         ` Aaron Wolf
2021-03-26 16:40           ` Yuchen Pei
2021-03-26 16:53             ` Aaron Wolf
2021-03-26 17:03               ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-03-27 21:27               ` quiliro
2021-03-27 21:52                 ` Aaron Wolf
2021-03-26 17:05           ` Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss
2021-03-26 17:28             ` Thomas Lord
2021-03-27 19:59               ` quiliro
2021-03-27 20:19                 ` Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss
2021-03-27 19:55             ` quiliro
2021-03-29 19:25               ` Jean Louis
2021-03-30  3:23                 ` quiliro
2021-03-30  3:44                   ` Jean Louis
2021-03-30  7:25                   ` Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss
2021-03-26 17:24           ` Thomas Lord
2021-03-26 17:32             ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-03-26 17:39               ` Thomas Lord
2021-03-26 17:46                 ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-03-26 17:51                   ` Thomas Lord
2021-03-26 17:55                     ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-03-26 17:59                       ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-03-26 21:18                       ` Jean Louis
2021-03-26 18:00                     ` Ali Reza Hayati
2021-03-26 18:02                       ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-03-26 18:06                         ` Ali Reza Hayati
2021-03-26 18:09                           ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-03-27 21:14                         ` quiliro
2021-03-31 14:38                           ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-03-31 15:19                             ` Aaron Wolf
2021-03-31 17:26                               ` Miles Fidelman
2021-03-26 18:11                       ` Thomas Lord
2021-03-26 18:15                         ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-03-26 18:25                           ` Thomas Lord
2021-03-26 19:02                             ` Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss
2021-03-27 21:13                               ` quiliro
2021-03-26 21:20                           ` Jean Louis
2021-03-26 21:15                   ` Jean Louis
2021-03-26 21:14                 ` Jean Louis
2021-03-26 21:11           ` Jean Louis
2021-03-27  2:16             ` Aaron Wolf
2021-03-27  6:20               ` Jean Louis
2021-03-26 19:52         ` Quiliro Ordóñez
2021-03-27 17:40           ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-03-29  1:35             ` quiliro
2021-03-29 19:06           ` Jean Louis
2021-03-26 20:32       ` Jean Louis
2021-03-26  4:36     ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-03-26 12:29       ` Ali Reza Hayati
2021-03-26 13:18         ` Deb Nicholson
2021-03-26 13:35           ` Yuchen Pei
2021-03-26 13:38           ` Ali Reza Hayati
2021-03-26 13:49             ` Deb Nicholson
2021-03-26 14:03               ` Ali Reza Hayati
2021-03-26 14:17                 ` Deb Nicholson
2021-03-26 14:26                 ` Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss
2021-03-26 14:37                   ` Ali Reza Hayati
2021-03-26 20:59               ` Jean Louis
2021-03-26 23:03                 ` Deb Nicholson
2021-03-26 23:20                   ` Jean Louis
2021-03-26 23:59                     ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-03-27  5:53                       ` Jean Louis
2021-03-27  0:16                   ` Thomas Lord
2021-03-27  0:18                     ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-03-27  2:29                     ` Aaron Wolf
2021-03-27  2:50                       ` Thomas Lord
2021-03-27  5:47                         ` Aaron Wolf
2021-03-27  5:53                           ` Thomas Lord
2021-03-27  6:23                         ` Jean Louis
2021-03-27 12:06                   ` Robbt
2021-03-27 12:28                     ` Jean Louis
2021-03-27 12:36                     ` Stephen Paul Weber
2021-03-27 12:41                       ` Jean Louis
2021-03-27 13:41                     ` Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss
2021-03-31 21:16                     ` Matt Ivie
2021-04-01  7:25                       ` Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss
2021-03-26 18:44           ` Florian Snow
2021-03-26 19:28             ` Thomas Lord
2021-03-26 21:26               ` Elias Rudberg
2021-03-26 22:01               ` Florian Snow
2021-03-27 23:15               ` quiliro
2021-03-29 19:52                 ` Jean Louis
2021-03-30 23:54                   ` quiliro
2021-03-26 21:33             ` Jean Louis
2021-03-26 22:20               ` Florian Snow
2021-03-26 20:48           ` Jean Louis
2021-03-26 13:27         ` Robbt E
2021-03-26 20:56           ` Jean Louis
2021-03-26 20:40       ` Jean Louis
2021-03-31 20:57         ` Matt Ivie
2021-03-26 14:22 ` Adonay Felipe Nogueira via libreplanet-discuss

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