Re: Support RMS

[Danny Spitzberg <stationaery@gmail.com>]

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Ali, both are correct.

On Thu, Apr 15, 2021 at 10:48 AM Ali Reza Hayati <arh@gnu.org> wrote:

> Danny, what is disgusting is ruining people's lives and reputation with
> false accusations and lies. Abuse of financial power and popularity is
> disgusting. Saying someone assaulted you or harassed you because he
> interrupted you or got angry is disgusting. Should I be accused of rape for
> mocking? They might do that, and that is disgusting.
>
> For me, this is not just the matter of Stallman. It's abuse of power and
> ruining lives. I live in a country in Middle East and I see this every day
> and I know and feel and understand it; and I fight against it.
>
> On April 15, 2021 5:39:30 PM UTC, Danny Spitzberg <stationaery@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >Ali, mocking is disgusting. I don’t think you should do that.
> >
> >On Thu, Apr 15, 2021 at 10:37 AM Ali Reza Hayati <arh@gnu.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Do you guys follow football? I mean the real football, not Amerikkkan
> >> one. There's a club in Spain named Barcelona. They have a player in
> >> their team named Leo Messi. I think many of you know him.
> >>
> >> Messi is believed to be one of the best football players in the history.
> >> During time, some people accused Messi of sexual assault and harassment.
> >> They even went to court for it and sued Messi. It turned out that all of
> >> them were only doing this for money, hoping that Leo Messi gives them
> >> some ransom.
> >>
> >> There's another player named Cristiano Ronaldo. Ronaldo is almost as
> >> same as Messi. He is again believed to be one of the bests in the
> >> history. He also was accused of sexual harassment and assault. Again,
> >> some people went to court and sued him, etc.
> >>
> >> Some of the accusers never went to court but they tell very interesting
> >> stories on how they were assaulted. There were no proof and the teams
> >> (Barcelona and Real Madrid) never responded.
> >>
> >> I can't tell if those players who have a reputation of good behavior and
> >> charity and social work were really offenders or not, but I can tell one
> >> thing. Barca and Madrid didn't let go of their best players because of
> >> some unproven accusations.
> >>
> >> I remember Leo Messi once attacked a journalist physically because he
> >> was very angry but again, he made up to that, apologized, and never
> >> repeated such behavior because he was aware of how it can affect people.
> >> Again, we didn't see any effort to ban Messi from playing football
> >> completely because that mistake.
> >>
> >> I'm a football fan. I'm a fan of Manchester United, neither of those
> >> teams I mentioned but I never ever campaigned to throw out Messi and
> >> Ronaldo for unproven accusations.
> >>
> >> I did not expect those teams to simply fire probably the best player of
> >> their history because some people said so.
> >>
> >> Do you get my analogy here? I hear stories about an autistic person
> >> named RMS that he has assaulted women, harassed them, or sexually abused
> >> them. When I go and read the stories, I see what Stallman did was to
> >> "upset" some people. Not harassment, not assault, but upset.
> >>
> >> Stallman shouted at some people or interrupted them while speaking. He
> >> hit on women or asked them out and insisted on that, which made them
> >> uncomfortable. If he was doing to me, I would be upset too, but I
> >> wouldn't ever accuse him of assault or harassment. I wouldn't expect FSF
> >> to fire its probably most valuable player that is known for his charity,
> >> effort for equality, justice, women's rights, etc.
> >>
> >> Why people expect FSF to fire its probably best player in history? I
> >> don't understand that.
> >>
> >> What people explain is not sexual harassment. He was an unpleasant
> >> person, maybe, to some people but he didn't do anything to harass them.
> >>
> >> Let me give you another example. There's a different between patting
> >> some child on the butt and pedophilia. Now a pedophile most-probably
> >> does pat children on the butt but are all people who do that pedophiles?
> >> Hell no.
> >>
> >> Please don't accuse people of what they didn't do because they made you
> >> uncomfortable or were unpleasant. If someone shouts at you, defend
> >> yourself or if the act of shouting makes you psychologically hurt,
> >> please be very very careful when you come out of your home because you
> >> may experience it almost every time.
> >>
> >> If someone hitting on you makes you uncomfortable, ask them not to do
> >> that or ask security to help you but don't accuse that person of
> >> harassment because looking at someone or being weird is not harassment.
> >> And again, please be careful when you come out of your house because you
> >> may experience it every day.
> >>
> >> If someone interrupts you, ask them not to do that or argue back but
> >> don't accuse that person of harassment because they didn't harass you
> >> with that. Harassment is different. And please be careful when you come
> >> out of your house because people may interrupt you every day.
> >>
> >> Stop with accusing people of things when they didn't do that.
> >>
> >> Also, please don't accuse me of sexual harassment because I wrote this
> >> note. I don't even know any of you and I did not harass you. Disagreeing
> >> with you is not harassment. Sending email messages is not assault.
> >>
> >> I had to clarify that because as far as I've seen you people, the next
> >> open letter would've been for me. Don't start arh-open-letter please.
> >> And yes, I'm mocking some people.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Ali Reza Hayati (https://alirezahayati.com)
> >> Libre culture activist and privacy advocate
> >> PGP: 88A5 BDB7 E07C 39D0 8132 6412 DCB8 F138 B865 1771
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> libreplanet-discuss mailing list
> >> libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
> >> https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
>
> --
> Ali Reza Hayati (https://alirezahayati.com)
> Libre culture activist and privacy advocate
> PGP: 88A5 BDB7 E07C 39D0 8132 6412 DCB8 F138 B865 1771

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   Ali, both are correct.

   On Thu, Apr 15, 2021 at 10:48 AM Ali Reza Hayati <[1]arh@gnu.org>
   wrote:

     Danny, what is disgusting is ruining people's lives and reputation
     with false accusations and lies. Abuse of financial power and
     popularity is disgusting. Saying someone assaulted you or harassed
     you because he interrupted you or got angry is disgusting. Should I
     be accused of rape for mocking? They might do that, and that is
     disgusting.
     For me, this is not just the matter of Stallman. It's abuse of power
     and ruining lives. I live in a country in Middle East and I see this
     every day and I know and feel and understand it; and I fight against
     it.
     On April 15, 2021 5:39:30 PM UTC, Danny Spitzberg
     <[2]stationaery@gmail.com> wrote:
     >Ali, mocking is disgusting. I don’t think you should do that.
     >
     >On Thu, Apr 15, 2021 at 10:37 AM Ali Reza Hayati <[3]arh@gnu.org>
     wrote:
     >
     >> Do you guys follow football? I mean the real football, not
     Amerikkkan
     >> one. There's a club in Spain named Barcelona. They have a player
     in
     >> their team named Leo Messi. I think many of you know him.
     >>
     >> Messi is believed to be one of the best football players in the
     history.
     >> During time, some people accused Messi of sexual assault and
     harassment.
     >> They even went to court for it and sued Messi. It turned out that
     all of
     >> them were only doing this for money, hoping that Leo Messi gives
     them
     >> some ransom.
     >>
     >> There's another player named Cristiano Ronaldo. Ronaldo is almost
     as
     >> same as Messi. He is again believed to be one of the bests in the
     >> history. He also was accused of sexual harassment and assault.
     Again,
     >> some people went to court and sued him, etc.
     >>
     >> Some of the accusers never went to court but they tell very
     interesting
     >> stories on how they were assaulted. There were no proof and the
     teams
     >> (Barcelona and Real Madrid) never responded.
     >>
     >> I can't tell if those players who have a reputation of good
     behavior and
     >> charity and social work were really offenders or not, but I can
     tell one
     >> thing. Barca and Madrid didn't let go of their best players
     because of
     >> some unproven accusations.
     >>
     >> I remember Leo Messi once attacked a journalist physically
     because he
     >> was very angry but again, he made up to that, apologized, and
     never
     >> repeated such behavior because he was aware of how it can affect
     people.
     >> Again, we didn't see any effort to ban Messi from playing
     football
     >> completely because that mistake.
     >>
     >> I'm a football fan. I'm a fan of Manchester United, neither of
     those
     >> teams I mentioned but I never ever campaigned to throw out Messi
     and
     >> Ronaldo for unproven accusations.
     >>
     >> I did not expect those teams to simply fire probably the best
     player of
     >> their history because some people said so.
     >>
     >> Do you get my analogy here? I hear stories about an autistic
     person
     >> named RMS that he has assaulted women, harassed them, or sexually
     abused
     >> them. When I go and read the stories, I see what Stallman did was
     to
     >> "upset" some people. Not harassment, not assault, but upset.
     >>
     >> Stallman shouted at some people or interrupted them while
     speaking. He
     >> hit on women or asked them out and insisted on that, which made
     them
     >> uncomfortable. If he was doing to me, I would be upset too, but I
     >> wouldn't ever accuse him of assault or harassment. I wouldn't
     expect FSF
     >> to fire its probably most valuable player that is known for his
     charity,
     >> effort for equality, justice, women's rights, etc.
     >>
     >> Why people expect FSF to fire its probably best player in
     history? I
     >> don't understand that.
     >>
     >> What people explain is not sexual harassment. He was an
     unpleasant
     >> person, maybe, to some people but he didn't do anything to harass
     them.
     >>
     >> Let me give you another example. There's a different between
     patting
     >> some child on the butt and pedophilia. Now a pedophile
     most-probably
     >> does pat children on the butt but are all people who do that
     pedophiles?
     >> Hell no.
     >>
     >> Please don't accuse people of what they didn't do because they
     made you
     >> uncomfortable or were unpleasant. If someone shouts at you,
     defend
     >> yourself or if the act of shouting makes you psychologically
     hurt,
     >> please be very very careful when you come out of your home
     because you
     >> may experience it almost every time.
     >>
     >> If someone hitting on you makes you uncomfortable, ask them not
     to do
     >> that or ask security to help you but don't accuse that person of
     >> harassment because looking at someone or being weird is not
     harassment.
     >> And again, please be careful when you come out of your house
     because you
     >> may experience it every day.
     >>
     >> If someone interrupts you, ask them not to do that or argue back
     but
     >> don't accuse that person of harassment because they didn't harass
     you
     >> with that. Harassment is different. And please be careful when
     you come
     >> out of your house because people may interrupt you every day.
     >>
     >> Stop with accusing people of things when they didn't do that.
     >>
     >> Also, please don't accuse me of sexual harassment because I wrote
     this
     >> note. I don't even know any of you and I did not harass you.
     Disagreeing
     >> with you is not harassment. Sending email messages is not
     assault.
     >>
     >> I had to clarify that because as far as I've seen you people, the
     next
     >> open letter would've been for me. Don't start arh-open-letter
     please.
     >> And yes, I'm mocking some people.
     >>
     >> --
     >> Ali Reza Hayati ([4]https://alirezahayati.com)
     >> Libre culture activist and privacy advocate
     >> PGP: 88A5 BDB7 E07C 39D0 8132 6412 DCB8 F138 B865 1771
     >>
     >> _______________________________________________
     >> libreplanet-discuss mailing list
     >> [5]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
     >>
     [6]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discus
     s
     --
     Ali Reza Hayati ([7]https://alirezahayati.com)
     Libre culture activist and privacy advocate
     PGP: 88A5 BDB7 E07C 39D0 8132 6412 DCB8 F138 B865 1771

References

   1. mailto:arh@gnu.org
   2. mailto:stationaery@gmail.com
   3. mailto:arh@gnu.org
   4. https://alirezahayati.com/
   5. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
   6. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
   7. https://alirezahayati.com/

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