Re: Support RMS

[Danny Spitzberg <stationaery@gmail.com>]

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On Thu, Apr 15, 2021 at 3:40 PM Alexandre Oliva <lxoliva@fsfla.org> wrote:

> On Apr 15, 2021, Aaron Wolf <wolftune@riseup.net> wrote:
>
> > That RMS turns some people away is not debatable.
>
> I'm willing to accept that as a premise.  It would take more than a
> saint (which he is ;-) to not turn anyone whatsoever away.
>
> Now let's look into the effects of defaming him, shall we?
>
>
> False accusations as the ones that have been made are not taken
> lightly.
>
> People who believe them are likely to be turned away not just from the
> FSF, but from any public appearance by RMS as leader or regular
> participant in the movement he founded.
>
> If we accept the premise that RMS's misbehavior drives people away, then
> attributing far worse misbehavior to him drives more people away from
> the movement.
>
>
> Conversely, people who do NOT believe the false accusations perceive
> intolerance and a toxic atmosphere being supported by a significant
> fraction of the movement.
>
> If we accept the premise that misbehavior attributed to RMS drives
> people away, then it's hard to dispute that the displays of intolerance
> and toxic atmosphere will also drive people away, probably in a larger
> magnitude.
>
>
> That's why I find it so hard to believe that the poeple carrying out
> these actions are acting out of love for the Free Software movement.
> Even if they were sure their actions would manage to deprive the whole
> movement from RMS's alleged negative influence, getting him to commit
> suicide or somesuch, we'd lose the "stallman was right" wisdom, and get
> the negative publicity of being such a toxic environment that the
> founder was driven to suicide.  And since their actions have failed,
> we're left with a defamed leader, a divided community, and a large
> number of lying and toxic participants who purport to have acted in good
> faith for the movement, but that were only competent enough to have
> caused great damage :-(
>
>
> RMS is forever associated with the movement.  The best those who love
> the movement have to do is to restore his defamed image.


The best I can imagine is that people learn from mistakes, grow to be more
inclusive, make a happy space for everyone.


>
> Those who don't wish to be associated with him, but that support the
> ideas behind the movement, are better off finding ways to support the
> ideas without interacting with him, but also without defaming him.  As
> for those who wish to destroy the movement...  I don't really want to
> give them any useful advice.
>
> --
> Alexandre Oliva, happy hacker  https://FSFLA.org/blogs/lxo/
>    Free Software Activist         GNU Toolchain Engineer
>         Vim, Vi, Voltei pro Emacs -- GNUlius Caesar
>

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   On Thu, Apr 15, 2021 at 3:40 PM Alexandre Oliva <[1]lxoliva@fsfla.org>
   wrote:

     On Apr 15, 2021, Aaron Wolf <[2]wolftune@riseup.net> wrote:
     > That RMS turns some people away is not debatable.
     I'm willing to accept that as a premise.  It would take more than a
     saint (which he is ;-) to not turn anyone whatsoever away.
     Now let's look into the effects of defaming him, shall we?
     False accusations as the ones that have been made are not taken
     lightly.
     People who believe them are likely to be turned away not just from
     the
     FSF, but from any public appearance by RMS as leader or regular
     participant in the movement he founded.
     If we accept the premise that RMS's misbehavior drives people away,
     then
     attributing far worse misbehavior to him drives more people away
     from
     the movement.
     Conversely, people who do NOT believe the false accusations perceive
     intolerance and a toxic atmosphere being supported by a significant
     fraction of the movement.
     If we accept the premise that misbehavior attributed to RMS drives
     people away, then it's hard to dispute that the displays of
     intolerance
     and toxic atmosphere will also drive people away, probably in a
     larger
     magnitude.
     That's why I find it so hard to believe that the poeple carrying out
     these actions are acting out of love for the Free Software movement.
     Even if they were sure their actions would manage to deprive the
     whole
     movement from RMS's alleged negative influence, getting him to
     commit
     suicide or somesuch, we'd lose the "stallman was right" wisdom, and
     get
     the negative publicity of being such a toxic environment that the
     founder was driven to suicide.  And since their actions have failed,
     we're left with a defamed leader, a divided community, and a large
     number of lying and toxic participants who purport to have acted in
     good
     faith for the movement, but that were only competent enough to have
     caused great damage :-(
     RMS is forever associated with the movement.  The best those who
     love
     the movement have to do is to restore his defamed image.

   The best I can imagine is that people learn from mistakes, grow to be
   more inclusive, make a happy space for everyone.

     Those who don't wish to be associated with him, but that support the
     ideas behind the movement, are better off finding ways to support
     the
     ideas without interacting with him, but also without defaming him.
     As
     for those who wish to destroy the movement...  I don't really want
     to
     give them any useful advice.
     --
     Alexandre Oliva, happy hacker  [3]https://FSFLA.org/blogs/lxo/
        Free Software Activist         GNU Toolchain Engineer
             Vim, Vi, Voltei pro Emacs -- GNUlius Caesar

References

   1. mailto:lxoliva@fsfla.org
   2. mailto:wolftune@riseup.net
   3. https://FSFLA.org/blogs/lxo/

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