Re: Support RMS

[Ali Reza Hayati <hayati@riseup.net>]

Weird.

Danny:
>> I have no doubt RMS was supportive.

On March 26, 2021 6:02:52 PM UTC, Danny Spitzberg <stationaery@gmail.com> wrote:
>Ali, I’m disappointed but not surprised you came to that conclusion yet
>again. The history seems to be the opposite: FSF staff organized a union
>because RMS was causing harm and dysfunction, and at best, RMS went along
>and accepted it as a net positive state of affairs.
>
>On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 11:00 AM Ali Reza Hayati <hayati@riseup.net> wrote:
>
>> So basically some people are claiming RMS helped to set up a union to
>> protect people from himself and that's one reason not to support RMS.
>>
>> You guys are making me support him more.
>>
>> On March 26, 2021 5:51:57 PM UTC, Thomas Lord <lord@basiscraft.com> wrote:
>> >"It is union to try to protect people from RMS. / That's it. That's the
>> >reason."
>> >
>> > As a matter of history that is simply and purely a lie.
>> >
>> >I don't see any of that kind of complaint, at this point, as anything
>> >less or more than direct attempts to sabotage the FSF, the FSM, and GNU.
>> >    It has no place here.  You are free not to associate with the FSF
>> >and you should, it would seem, take that option.
>> >
>> >-t
>> >
>> >On 2021-03-26 10:46, Danny Spitzberg wrote:
>> >
>> >> A union certainly helped everyone set and keep healthy boundaries. I
>> have no doubt RMS was supportive. Like Paul suggested, a set of community
>> agreements or a code of conduct or a contributor covenant or whatever is
>> generally a good thing.
>> >>
>> >> But as for the reason why staff organized the union -- you may call it
>> silly, but here is the testimony in their own words:
>> >>
>> >> " I think that many people do not know that the FSF is a union shop, or
>> why.
>> >>
>> >> It is union to try to protect people from RMS.
>> >>
>> >> That's it. That's the reason.
>> >>
>> >> Knowing some of the story about how this came to be, it really informed
>> my own thinking about what a union can do, and can't do.
>> >>
>> >> Unionizing provided protections and standard benefits (like berievement
>> leave) for workers at FSF. It could not remove RMS from a position of
>> power.
>> >>
>> >> I think the issue for workers at the time was that RMS held unchecked
>> authority. It did not matter that there was a board of FSF: you could not
>> tell RMS what to do.
>> >>
>> >> Using the power that the law provides to force negotiations on a
>> written contract was the only option.
>> >>
>> >> That is just... Not normal. Right?"
>> >>
>> >> From
>> >> https://twitter.com/_msw_/status/1374538607982088197
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 10:40 AM Thomas Lord <lord@basiscraft.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> That's silly.  The FSF was unionized with the encouragement and support
>> of the FSF executives and board, including RMS, because unions are good, at
>> least while the injustice of wage labor still exists.
>> >>
>> >>> he also caused harm to people and to the FSF organization and the free
>> software movement.
>> >>
>> >> I regard that as a straight up lie because none of the derogatory
>> things said about him have supported that conclusion.
>> >>
>> >> Once again,  you are free not to associate with the FSF or the
>> movement, but pretending to be an ally while repeating slanders should not
>> be tolerated here or anywhere.
>> >>
>> >> -t
>> >>
>> >> On 2021-03-26 10:32, Danny Spitzberg wrote:
>> >> Consider the fact that several FSF staff are going public for having
>> organized and joined a union in order to protect themselves against the
>> whims and wills of RMS, like if he suddenly decided to take away health
>> insurance for everyone or other workplace dysfunction.
>> >>
>> >> Forming a union and finally talking about it isn't "whistleblowing"
>> because obviously the staff and board chose to contain the problem rather
>> than solve or eliminate it.
>> >>
>> >> However, I think we can agree that it's compelling nonetheless and adds
>> to the view that while RMS contributed good things, he also caused harm to
>> people and to the FSF organization and the free software movement.
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 10:25 AM Thomas Lord <lord@basiscraft.com>
>> wrote: It's wrong to describe people as "whistle blowers" when they
>> >> have not produced a complaint that stands up to scrutiny.
>> >>
>> >> -t
>> >>
>> >> On 2021-03-26 08:54, Aaron Wolf wrote:
>> >>> I really appreciate seeing the perspective from Georgia. Thanks also
>> >>> deeply to Deb Nicholson for engaging here in this space. Obviously,
>> >>> these negative reports about RMS being presented *here* amounts to the
>> >>> opposite of an echo-chamber. These voices are bring extremely valuable
>> >>> perspective -- the sort we *lose* if we aren't careful to assure that
>> >>> our
>> >>> spaces are not only open to anyone but actually in *practice* have them
>> >>> feel welcome and stay.
>> >>>
>> >>> The Free Software movement is weaker for every loss of perspective. We
>> >>> have a duty to be not only gracious but appreciative of people like Deb
>> >>> for engaging and staying with us despite the tensions.
>> >>>
>> >>> Georgia's line is exceptionally important: "...the fact that he faced
>> >>> consequences for his creepy Epdtein-adjacent comments and not the
>> >>> decades of shitty behavior..."
>> >
>> >>>>
>> >>>> These are not people who are dogpiling on hearsay or gotcha online
>> >>>> statements or whatever else. Those anti-patterns do indeed happen, and
>> >>>> they polluted and harmed the credibility of the recent open letter
>> >>>> against RMS. But here we have people who fully understand the
>> >>>> unfairness
>> >>>> and yet can express from extensive personal experience the *actual*
>> >>>> reasons why RMS's leadership is problematic.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> As someone who deeply and profoundly respects RMS for various
>> reasons,
>> >>>> I
>> >>>> still don't just simply support his leadership role. I do not want him
>> >>>> banished, I want him to learn and do better on his pain points. I
>> don't
>> >>>> want to be naive though, efforts in this direction have obviously been
>> >>>> done for years and not been enough.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I would like to continue to get RMS' insightful and pointed
>> >>>> perspectives
>> >>>> without having him lead the organization. I would like him to live in
>> >>>> the zone where his genius most thrives and he contributes the most,
>> and
>> >>>> I suggest that the other roles he has had would be better filled by
>> >>>> others.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> If we want a resilient movement, we need to be really open to engaging
>> >>>> with complaints. An organization that defends the status quo against
>> >>>> such critics is like the NSA attacking Ed Snowden and people
>> >>>> insinuating
>> >>>> that Snowden is working for Russia (similar to people talking about
>> how
>> >>>> Deb now works for the OSI and the OSI is connected to corporations).
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I'm not suggesting deference to the outside unfair critics, the people
>> >>>> who do indeed levy unfair attacks, mine quotes, spread FUD, etc. That
>> >>>> stuff can be real, and we need to defend against it.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> But people like Deb are our whistleblowers, they are insiders who are
>> >>>> bringing attention to serious issues. If we ignore or attack
>> >>>> whistleblowers, we will fail to learn important lessons. This attitude
>> >>>> can be fatal to a movement.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> In solidarity,
>> >>>> Aaron Wolf
>> >>>> (FSF member since 2014, co-founder of Snowdrift.coop)
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> libreplanet-discuss mailing list
>> >>>> libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
>> >>>> https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
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>> >>> libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
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>> --
>> Ali Reza Hayati (https://alirezahayati.com)
>> Libre culture activist and privacy advocate
>> PGP: B7DC C419 C0ED 05D5 6535 1BD3 2A7F A925 75A3

-- 
Ali Reza Hayati (https://alirezahayati.com)
Libre culture activist and privacy advocate
PGP: B7DC C419 C0ED 05D5 6535 1BD3 2A7F A925 75A3

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