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Tue, 23 Nov 2021 16:25:02 -0500 Received: from knopi.disroot.org ([178.21.23.139]:49278) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mpdHa-0001az-Sh for libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org; Tue, 23 Nov 2021 16:24:57 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by disroot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 485CB7AA63; Tue, 23 Nov 2021 22:24:52 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at disroot.org Received: from knopi.disroot.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (disroot.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FSlLF0KlbipW; Tue, 23 Nov 2021 22:24:50 +0100 (CET) To: Dennis Payne , libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=disroot.org; s=mail; t=1637702690; bh=/ac2k8MFIPg5Yuw/YtQagYSLaF/wDDsQu+NemC9Rf7E=; h=To:References:From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To; b=IB8P4sNAyHz/tXQhyvQnfSpkVLC9JJLN0AjDCIfX7ImuXIUbJJAuM8HuPoWX8TpIA rneceqzpcSMBokONRPaxGV4qi7OmpBDe/kUEhHTt0cQ9A8qaA011KcjH3BruJe/Gm/ yhBhcuwD5xKCjllj8lEiYMQuq113LDAwYpDPy89N+ftt3fDfvdvyI1HDZpXsdxqA0C wbl7I5d2ug0AzNDA3Gb8p7fH661duS92Yqw/gTbdCLd28edeK62gzKm0rilbVhf2A0 XWDdvbRNRiDbgFk1vwN+Z6S5LJl2Py6RLeEt0+aebKlSrFyk9HlkN5WRpHFBYEqWkq IefUSnI/bAkmA== References: <85f3f210-ae46-8a02-e361-1785a5ee6807@minifree.org> <87fsrnoo83.fsf@ypei.me> <81e2aa1d-46de-77de-8039-7dbf9669bc35@disroot.org> <86b3bf92bf3c952d9a002ef763fca8f6b7cb05d4.camel@identicalsoftware.com> Autocrypt: addr=paulsutton@disroot.org; keydata= xsDNBF+Jg/sBDACeQxCb2jktLARNOjfIXOCmxK16miLPz3phjLz4GVWYS3usjjK5R7H5QBDS iA1/oIuk8Y3hp0RhNoEt1RvPLyMfHh+HKToJh0TJPlrHVRvufGcQuoMlipq8UNsin6DAYu3Q ELQP2ex7jj1vXThOftSMb1qILZM1w4xfA/+L4qNGu4s3x98Hd/zb3BtFQ8L8rscUmVTrNjja qzbo5PSEc+8suKN30iYDcKGj5vyeMkarnp/18SD3iuHS6Pq/6zwWMTPP2BUFxLXxykkP9H19 7MGjnJ5OEQH01mxhHwOu2l6xZZVCJonyFHngt8qT+6Q3WnYfM9z7L7YfArw+m4EPo8nvqeyH QRkCtPAoJ5FWJlByhZPvq/cZN6ndt+mrVYO1JHrjCxanr5a3h/JbX2NzODzDzFw/CP6ZJehK 0vIm2D7ZvcSR+2bTCP8BExxVhoOH3se15N/jFiVbHW+fq4lw85i1SOpVIb2SSdtEz954WDkK YxBPW1L1GtVZUxrHFoaVxdsAEQEAAc0kUGF1bCBTdXR0b24gPHBhdWxzdXR0b25AZGlzcm9v dC5vcmc+wsEPBBMBCAA5FiEEQ1CRxMj7aBsjpnlEjqkbUeJ+PZkFAl+Jg/wFCQWjmoACGwMF CwkIBwIGFQgJCgsCBRYCAwEAAAoJEI6pG1Hifj2ZgZUL/0irDjOJhm2qNp2ZvCknqrGH3tEN 6TTcWOOZBL/BevUwTUH8zu3tMUZc7ESARCFz08xXtE15A0Lf/zQN75Qa3V8dKLSMBGYcEakJ aSUYbKLN3hXm0/uelrOE8D9FrTRgh9Kv0gjz/tx6aE0mIMzh1E4GyxYpnwFPnM3Kt6aId+s3 fcs66HbzAzZ2Dqaz5vV/K6CZM+M3l7JiGUEDFBbUR4l1D9NXOjVaePqeU8aNkK1D2V/b8lLS TxHC+qrHJwIUgnnW4kAXON/zz4Iw099F6XSiOD4yhY1JKt26WbgO0HIsQdnwkP0pt3EZ6+Tl p1c0hdev54w6E5vaE2jDIEud2mR30dyyAwTn1u1SqkPivSycO3Ht1eXd8jjkGbXvFVbYLkXI jUoyjTkChXpXyKKSrPzVWeXNtcvf4zN5NmRQMWRPbFodemQHRKk5GqWw8TiTzxwfO0my+jcM uPNGTPawK0G4rVYUAZt13XsdI+Uj61QVwirR3Q21Ti0Asb87PX50bs7AzQRfiYP9AQwA23SG nuPr/3rk5dBkAnu0ho7IIh5j6oHEaoW5ghSIRONCr/++Gb8YQRtA/Cld9tiTwjL+GwME1ws3 5nnhWoq/CfeSodVryCEg8VUjtmAKraeH3kYsL5NUy6uhJMySjJEj0pAN3/lmbmfGpmKFLwVi ZQtNHv66eG0IFN/nHnI1KdMfmIhF/y9oWSYZM6d+f6yo0fuIkyUuqb0qdWGBnMxJRW93hvC3 D30ba96S/WliN45uChFiKV7fO0KdWQA3VuM4j4yt02pt+IIZP7Ks/CVp8cFALLEZYjEs6Vvv 0Zbx7empPRY6rFjHdiYjBEooltJIAs6BSwlaHtF9vM7qyPZ2QRNuPdH+6Lgg1G20caE8w5Bh CQFaw6MckR8SepOIabmpwQujurJ2NLIkz0ySCBMw4xK3BnICrYoA+hnBmi5TLTyQx+PMIhRV Ga2t/m6a4iBJxGnRd6HLvbsGOtgkMHiG3I8zaIVxRECPd0Oj+NXglFPVKB8iazG0b8JCvLP+ w4GLABEBAAHCwPwEGAEIACYWIQRDUJHEyPtoGyOmeUSOqRtR4n49mQUCX4mD/gUJBaOagAIb DAAKCRCOqRtR4n49mXK8C/9971dL1qaX67qalP5kWmBICp3Oh8qvvBADENtaLwFEXkOPxLvl GMRBRF8hQemerZk3dZKpt6CrgEt6WhKOwlB7Eo/lJFs9i72Jr4jbXG51KjahjKM/bls6so2l m/Z0yTaxB/QVWXHBCGcsmru+ahO9K6bbrWBnB8alnKi7u9fQMux3s27mjl4LoAyVmZ3xO/Wb e0L3l/yy/ft9IDfTXbA2zJSk4z8DYBj7jgr/LpuSzk2tP8iTxBcfnjJV6THSsIF+ct7mTh/n SAG/4/qZSxgU0yaJaDiOwutmIkPxGJKU4wFT6lSheDMcuYb0je6t2vU6Jb0NfDOWL0hLjY5S hQHpkjSfPI8Ckjrm+iYrvZyxlLo8OKy0BWy5T2X4jDhL7B1bdZ61XYF0GeV0C0SwmdK8n6SC pOlui1bCWl+8Xl1YqR2WspXQwwtC4v4oJiKvPe33npHfk7liyh00QQPLq8WmFtSFCOFwhopR VCAaQGXIdiIaWNf6X+jnLmRRKm6BPTI= Subject: Re: federated free software movement Message-ID: <7ee2d107-1487-fe52-6b5c-bc0c41c524a3@disroot.org> Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2021 21:24:48 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <86b3bf92bf3c952d9a002ef763fca8f6b7cb05d4.camel@identicalsoftware.com> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=178.21.23.139; envelope-from=paulsutton@disroot.org; helo=knopi.disroot.org X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , From: Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss Reply-To: Paul Sutton Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5136272874788392251==" Errors-To: libreplanet-discuss-bounces+e=80x24.org@libreplanet.org Sender: "libreplanet-discuss" This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --===============5136272874788392251== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="5oAXNncEn9Kykp8YpALYm5P8NkFzCvJAl" This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --5oAXNncEn9Kykp8YpALYm5P8NkFzCvJAl Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="koyyhkkATnCMDvPgf2MvZ6oZZlnRXlrDJ"; protected-headers="v1" From: Paul Sutton To: Dennis Payne , libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org Message-ID: <7ee2d107-1487-fe52-6b5c-bc0c41c524a3@disroot.org> Subject: Re: federated free software movement References: <85f3f210-ae46-8a02-e361-1785a5ee6807@minifree.org> <87fsrnoo83.fsf@ypei.me> <81e2aa1d-46de-77de-8039-7dbf9669bc35@disroot.org> <86b3bf92bf3c952d9a002ef763fca8f6b7cb05d4.camel@identicalsoftware.com> In-Reply-To: <86b3bf92bf3c952d9a002ef763fca8f6b7cb05d4.camel@identicalsoftware.com> --koyyhkkATnCMDvPgf2MvZ6oZZlnRXlrDJ Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------0DD1879D52CBFC89668E4A36" Content-Language: en-GB This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------0DD1879D52CBFC89668E4A36 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 23/11/2021 21:05, Dennis Payne wrote: > On Tue, 2021-11-23 at 18:02 +0000, Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss > wrote: >> Hi >> I think this may be it >> >> https://stallman.org/cgi-bin/showpage.cgi?path=3D/articles/encyclopedi= a.html&term=3Dencyclopedia&type=3Dnorm&case=3D0 >> >> =C2=A0From https://stallman.org >=20 > I can't help but feel this is impossible to implement. It relies on the= > same blind faith in technology that facebook has used to justify doing > nothing about the misinformation. >=20 > Stallman specifically mentions that holocaust denial would be allowed > but that endorsements/peer review would allow people to evaluate the > truthfulness of the article. Then says modified version would lose all > endorsements. So if people keep adding useful information to an > article, it might keep losing all it's endorsements. Holocaust denial > might appear to have more endorsements in that situation. Even if have > some way to handle that, not all endorsements are equal. If 20 medical > doctors are saying people are getting sick because of X and 50 > employees from company that makes X say the cause is undetermined, I > think I'd trust the doctors. >=20 > If you can make it, more power to you. >=20 I think you raise a good point here https://senseaboutscience.org/ and their project=20 https://askforevidence.org/index is the sort of thing we need, so that=20 we can promote proper research, debate and evidence backed research. Holocaust denial is illegal in some countries anyway. The last thing we want is people having a platform to post anything they = want, regardless of where that information comes from and to do so with = impunity. If someone posts an article and a credible person endorses that article, = then the article is modified and the person endorsing it, does not=20 notice (people are busy, after all) it may look like they have endorsed=20 the new version, that could easily cost people their jobs, careers and=20 reputation. Or they could be easily linked (given people fail to fact check anyway)=20 to an article, same result loss of reputation, career and job. They could then sue the person who owns the website, and give free=20 software is also about transparency, then that information would NOT be=20 hidden from public view. 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