The beast is live - Github Copilot

The beast is live - Github Copilot

[Marc Sunet]

https://github.blog/2022-06-21-github-copilot-is-generally-available-to-all-developers/

Thank you all you have unwillingly contributed to this project. The wait 
is finally over; today we announce that Github Copilot is now available 
to all developers for $10/mo or $100/mo. You will receive $0 for your 
contributions.

Truly yours,
Microsoft

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Re: The beast is live - Github Copilot

[Yuchen Pei]

On Tue 2022-06-21 19:38:04 -0700, Marc Sunet wrote:

> https://github.blog/2022-06-21-github-copilot-is-generally-available-to-all-developers/

Is copilot something only github can offer?  If the vast majority of
training data is from public repo that anyone can access, perhaps the
only thing stopping people from making something similar is the
computing power to convert the data to weights?

>
> Thank you all you have unwillingly contributed to this project. The
> wait is finally over; today we announce that Github Copilot is now
> available to all developers for $10/mo or $100/mo. You will receive $0
> for your contributions.
>
> Truly yours,
> Microsoft


Best,
Yuchen

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Re: The beast is live - Github Copilot

[Shironeko]

> Is copilot something only github can offer?  If the vast majority of
> training data is from public repo that anyone can access, perhaps the
> only thing stopping people from making something similar is the
> computing power to convert the data to weights?

and a bilion dollar lawyer team.

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Re: The beast is live - Github Copilot

[Marc Sunet]

> Is copilot something only github can offer?  If the vast majority of
> training data is from public repo that anyone can access, perhaps the
> only thing stopping people from making something similar is the
> computing power to convert the data to weights?

Well, I guess that and your will to comply with law, right?

People's code on Github is copyrighted/copylefted, you can't just use 
the code however you please. And I am not too familiar with the Github 
TOS, but I doubt they can override a license. The TOS could also make 
scraping illegal, making it illegal for you to obtain the data en mass, 
but not for Microsoft. Facebook and Instagram do this.

There is also the argument of whether GPL code output by a network 
should be considered a derivative work. After all, the network is 
basically just a different representation of its training inputs. I 
believe the FSF started working on this issue the moment Github Copilot 
was announced; I thought Copilot finally going live was of interest to 
the audience here.

Legal issues aside, I'd argue it's also kind of shitty to take other 
people's work and re-sell it under a $10/$100 subscription, with the 
abuse of confidence and trust that that comes with. Microsoft bought the 
platform when it was already popular, then subverted it for its own 
profit-making. Similar to Google/Youtube.

Marc


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Re: The beast is live - Github Copilot

[Yuchen Pei]

On Sat 2022-06-25 13:47:24 -0700, Marc Sunet wrote:

>> Is copilot something only github can offer?  If the vast majority of
>> training data is from public repo that anyone can access, perhaps the
>> only thing stopping people from making something similar is the
>> computing power to convert the data to weights?
>
> Well, I guess that and your will to comply with law, right?

I'm just speculating whether it is feasible for free software orgs like
framasoft or software heritage to develop free software version of
copilot, that trains on data that is code under GPL-compatible licenses
and license the "free copilot" under (A)GPL.

>
> People's code on Github is copyrighted/copylefted, you can't just use
> the code however you please. And I am not too familiar with the Github
> TOS, but I doubt they can override a license. The TOS could also make
> scraping illegal, making it illegal for you to obtain the data en
> mass, but not for Microsoft. Facebook and Instagram do this.
>
> There is also the argument of whether GPL code output by a network
> should be considered a derivative work. After all, the network is
> basically just a different representation of its training inputs. I
> believe the FSF started working on this issue the moment Github
> Copilot was announced; I thought Copilot finally going live was of
> interest to the audience here.
>
> Legal issues aside, I'd argue it's also kind of shitty to take other
> people's work and re-sell it under a $10/$100 subscription, with the
> abuse of confidence and trust that that comes with. Microsoft bought
> the platform when it was already popular, then subverted it for its
> own profit-making. Similar to Google/Youtube.

I feel that one difference between the values of free software and open
source is that the free software does not have a problem with taking
people's work and re-selling it, as long as the work being resold is
free.  Whereas open source focus more on what authors get out of "open
source".

>
> Marc
>


Best,
Yuchen

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Re: The beast is live - Github Copilot

[Marc Sunet]

> I feel that one difference between the values of free software and open
> source is that the free software does not have a problem with taking
> people's work and re-selling it, as long as the work being resold is
> free.  Whereas open source focus more on what authors get out of "open
> source".

And in this case it is SaaSS. Not only is it trained on the existing 
code in the repositories, it also seems to siphon code off your editor 
as you type:

https://github.com/features/copilot/#faq-privacy

 > GitHub Copilot relies on file content and additional data to work. It 
collects data both to provide the service and saves some of the data to 
perform further analysis and enable improvements.

 > Depending on your preferred telemetry settings, GitHub Copilot may 
also collect and retain the following, collectively referred to as “code 
snippets”: source code that you are editing, related files and other 
files open in the same IDE or editor, URLs of repositories and files paths.


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Re: The beast is live - Github Copilot

[Yuchen Pei]

On Sun 2022-06-26 17:25:24 -0700, Marc Sunet wrote:

>> I feel that one difference between the values of free software and open
>> source is that the free software does not have a problem with taking
>> people's work and re-selling it, as long as the work being resold is
>> free.  Whereas open source focus more on what authors get out of "open
>> source".
>
> And in this case it is SaaSS. Not only is it trained on the existing
> code in the repositories, it also seems to siphon code off your editor
> as you type:
>
> https://github.com/features/copilot/#faq-privacy

Of course there are ways to make it not SaaSS or privacy invading, if
one is going to work on a free software version of copilot - all they
need to do is not replicate the antifeatures.

>
>> GitHub Copilot relies on file content and additional data to
>   work. It collects data both to provide the service and saves some of
>   the data to perform further analysis and enable improvements.
>
>> Depending on your preferred telemetry settings, GitHub Copilot may
>   also collect and retain the following, collectively referred to as
>   “code snippets”: source code that you are editing, related files and
>   other files open in the same IDE or editor, URLs of repositories and
>  files paths.
>


Best,
Yuchen

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Re: The beast is live - Github Copilot

[Luna Jernberg]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1IVJ54bHO8&

On 6/28/22, Yuchen Pei <hi@ypei.me> wrote:
> On Sun 2022-06-26 17:25:24 -0700, Marc Sunet wrote:
>
>>> I feel that one difference between the values of free software and open
>>> source is that the free software does not have a problem with taking
>>> people's work and re-selling it, as long as the work being resold is
>>> free.  Whereas open source focus more on what authors get out of "open
>>> source".
>>
>> And in this case it is SaaSS. Not only is it trained on the existing
>> code in the repositories, it also seems to siphon code off your editor
>> as you type:
>>
>> https://github.com/features/copilot/#faq-privacy
>
> Of course there are ways to make it not SaaSS or privacy invading, if
> one is going to work on a free software version of copilot - all they
> need to do is not replicate the antifeatures.
>
>>
>>> GitHub Copilot relies on file content and additional data to
>>   work. It collects data both to provide the service and saves some of
>>   the data to perform further analysis and enable improvements.
>>
>>> Depending on your preferred telemetry settings, GitHub Copilot may
>>   also collect and retain the following, collectively referred to as
>>   “code snippets”: source code that you are editing, related files and
>>   other files open in the same IDE or editor, URLs of repositories and
>>  files paths.
>>
>
>
> Best,
> Yuchen
>
> --
> PGP Key: 47F9 D050 1E11 8879 9040  4941 2126 7E93 EF86 DFD0
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>
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Re: The beast is live - Github Copilot

[J Leslie Turriff]

On 2022-06-27 17:50:46 Yuchen Pei wrote:
> On Sun 2022-06-26 17:25:24 -0700, Marc Sunet wrote:
> >> I feel that one difference between the values of free software and open
> >> source is that the free software does not have a problem with taking
> >> people's work and re-selling it, as long as the work being resold is
> >> free.  Whereas open source focus more on what authors get out of "open
> >> source".
> >
> > And in this case it is SaaSS. Not only is it trained on the existing
> > code in the repositories, it also seems to siphon code off your editor
> > as you type:
> >
> > https://github.com/features/copilot/#faq-privacy
>
> Of course there are ways to make it not SaaSS or privacy invading, if
> one is going to work on a free software version of copilot - all they
> need to do is not replicate the antifeatures.
>
> >> GitHub Copilot relies on file content and additional data to
> >
> >   work. It collects data both to provide the service and saves some of
> >   the data to perform further analysis and enable improvements.
> >
> >> Depending on your preferred telemetry settings, GitHub Copilot may
> >
> >   also collect and retain the following, collectively referred to as
> >   “code snippets”: source code that you are editing, related files and
> >   other files open in the same IDE or editor, URLs of repositories and
> >  files paths.
>
> Best,
> Yuchen


	My take on this is that software authors who value control of their code are well advised 
to move it to another repository.

Leslie
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Desktop Environment: Trinity

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Re: The beast is live - Github Copilot

[Jorge P. de Morais Neto]

Hi.  I reply below:

Em [2022-06-24 sex 17:13:47-0400], Shironeko escreveu:

>> Is copilot something only github can offer?  If the vast majority of
>> training data is from public repo that anyone can access, perhaps the
>> only thing stopping people from making something similar is the
>> computing power to convert the data to weights?
>
> and a bilion dollar lawyer team.

I suppose there are ways to avoid the need for an expensive lawyer team.
One measure would be actually licensing the model's output under a
license compatible with that of the training data.

Regards

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