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From: Elias Rudberg <mail@eliasrudberg.se>
To: libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
Subject: Re: Support RMS
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2021 22:26:45 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <58007dfe79bb2ae870077f927b85ee69b1fbf43e.camel@eliasrudberg.se> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <3c9f67265680c3b4c7a1d8af76256928@basiscraft.com>

Hello everyone,

I am an FSF member since a couple of years but have supported the free
software ideals for much longer, having much respect for RMS as the
founder of GNU and FSF.

Having read several different viewpoints about the current situation
and discussed with people on different sides of the argument, I think I
have at least some partial understanding of what has happened.
Hopefully this can help people understand each other better.

Please forgive me for simplifying a lot here, I am trying to get the
key points across without getting too lengthy.

The criticism against RMS comes in two parts:

(1) "RMS defended Epstein"
(2) RMS bad behavior (many examples of this)

The above have often been presented together forming a kind of package
of allegations against RMS. This is unfortunate because (1) is false,
while (2) is true (at least to an extent, depending of course on what
you mean by bad behavior).

Many people have, via various social media platforms and an "open
letter", expressed that RMS is a terrible person and that the FSF board
must resign and so on, giving (1) and (2) together as basis for their
stance.

In response to that, many FSF supporters have noticed that (1) is false
and they have understandably been upset that RMS was accused with the
false (1) used as evidence. Although (2) was also included in the
presented evidence, its credibility was harmed by being presented
together with the false (1). This has resulted in some FSF supporters
concluding that RMS was attacked "based on lies".

At the same time, the persons who told their experiences of RMS bad
behavior (2) had nothing to do with the false allegation (1), it is not
their fault that their stories were later, by others, mixed up with the
false (1) leading to so much confusion and anger. They, who told their
experiences of RMS bad behavior, are understandably disappointed if
everything is dismissed as "lies" by RMS supporters.

So, in this way I think it is possible to understand both viewpoints.

All this has been made worse and more divisive than it needed to be
because of social media platforms that encourage quick careless
clicking and namecalling rather than thoughtful, civil discussion.

I hope the above is understandable, I thought for a while about how to
express it and this was the best I could do.
Hopefully it can help with figuring out this difficult situation.

I wish you all well, and it is my hope and belief that if we work
together the free software movement will in the future grow stronger
with more people choosing to participate.

Best regards,
Elias


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libreplanet-discuss mailing list
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  reply	other threads:[~2021-03-27 17:26 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 216+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-03-25 23:57 Support RMS Ali Reza Hayati
2021-03-26  0:19 ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-03-26  1:04   ` Ali Reza Hayati
2021-03-26  1:40     ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2021-03-26  3:29       ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2021-03-26  4:57         ` Jean Louis
2021-03-26  1:47     ` Steve M Bibayoff
2021-03-26 14:50       ` Ali Reza Hayati
2021-03-26 15:54         ` Aaron Wolf
2021-03-26 16:40           ` Yuchen Pei
2021-03-26 16:53             ` Aaron Wolf
2021-03-26 17:03               ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-03-27 21:27               ` quiliro
2021-03-27 21:52                 ` Aaron Wolf
2021-03-26 17:05           ` Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss
2021-03-26 17:28             ` Thomas Lord
2021-03-27 19:59               ` quiliro
2021-03-27 20:19                 ` Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss
2021-03-27 19:55             ` quiliro
2021-03-29 19:25               ` Jean Louis
2021-03-30  3:23                 ` quiliro
2021-03-30  3:44                   ` Jean Louis
2021-03-30  7:25                   ` Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss
2021-03-26 17:24           ` Thomas Lord
2021-03-26 17:32             ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-03-26 17:39               ` Thomas Lord
2021-03-26 17:46                 ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-03-26 17:51                   ` Thomas Lord
2021-03-26 17:55                     ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-03-26 17:59                       ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-03-26 21:18                       ` Jean Louis
2021-03-26 18:00                     ` Ali Reza Hayati
2021-03-26 18:02                       ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-03-26 18:06                         ` Ali Reza Hayati
2021-03-26 18:09                           ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-03-27 21:14                         ` quiliro
2021-03-31 14:38                           ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-03-31 15:19                             ` Aaron Wolf
2021-03-31 17:26                               ` Miles Fidelman
     [not found]                             ` <YGSqlIc9U3D/7JMB@protected.localdomain>
2021-03-31 17:25                               ` Proposals to improve FSF (was a thread about FSF union) Danny Spitzberg
2021-03-26 18:11                       ` Support RMS Thomas Lord
2021-03-26 18:15                         ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-03-26 18:25                           ` Thomas Lord
2021-03-26 19:02                             ` Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss
2021-03-27 21:13                               ` quiliro
2021-03-26 21:20                           ` Jean Louis
2021-03-26 21:15                   ` Jean Louis
2021-03-26 21:14                 ` Jean Louis
2021-03-26 21:11           ` Jean Louis
2021-03-27  2:16             ` Aaron Wolf
2021-03-27  6:20               ` Jean Louis
2021-03-26 19:52         ` Quiliro Ordóñez
2021-03-27 17:40           ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-03-29  1:35             ` quiliro
2021-03-29 19:06           ` Jean Louis
2021-03-26 20:32       ` Jean Louis
2021-03-26  4:36     ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-03-26 12:29       ` Ali Reza Hayati
2021-03-26 13:18         ` Deb Nicholson
2021-03-26 13:35           ` Yuchen Pei
2021-03-26 13:38           ` Ali Reza Hayati
2021-03-26 13:49             ` Deb Nicholson
2021-03-26 14:03               ` Ali Reza Hayati
2021-03-26 14:17                 ` Deb Nicholson
2021-03-26 14:26                 ` Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss
2021-03-26 14:37                   ` Ali Reza Hayati
2021-03-26 20:59               ` Jean Louis
2021-03-26 23:03                 ` Deb Nicholson
2021-03-26 23:20                   ` Jean Louis
2021-03-26 23:59                     ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-03-27  5:53                       ` Jean Louis
2021-03-26 23:56                   ` noise - [was Support RMS] Miles Fidelman
2021-03-27  0:16                   ` Support RMS Thomas Lord
2021-03-27  0:18                     ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-03-27  2:29                     ` Aaron Wolf
2021-03-27  2:50                       ` Thomas Lord
2021-03-27  5:47                         ` Aaron Wolf
2021-03-27  5:53                           ` Thomas Lord
2021-03-27  6:23                         ` Jean Louis
2021-03-27 12:06                   ` Robbt
2021-03-27 12:28                     ` Jean Louis
2021-03-27 12:36                     ` Stephen Paul Weber
2021-03-27 12:41                       ` Jean Louis
2021-03-27 13:41                     ` Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss
2021-03-31 21:16                     ` Matt Ivie
2021-04-01  7:25                       ` Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss
2021-03-26 18:44           ` Florian Snow
2021-03-26 19:28             ` Thomas Lord
2021-03-26 21:26               ` Elias Rudberg [this message]
2021-03-26 22:01               ` Florian Snow
2021-03-27 23:15               ` quiliro
2021-03-29 19:52                 ` Jean Louis
2021-03-30 23:54                   ` quiliro
2021-03-26 21:33             ` Jean Louis
2021-03-26 22:20               ` Florian Snow
2021-03-26 20:48           ` Jean Louis
2021-03-26 13:27         ` Robbt E
2021-03-26 20:56           ` Jean Louis
2021-03-26 20:40       ` Jean Louis
2021-03-31 20:57         ` Matt Ivie
2021-03-26 14:22 ` Adonay Felipe Nogueira via libreplanet-discuss
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2021-03-27  5:08 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2021-03-27  5:32 ` Máirín Duffy
2021-03-27  6:41   ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2021-03-27  5:35 ` Aaron Wolf
2021-03-29 12:25 ` quiliro
2021-03-29 12:49   ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2021-03-29 14:46     ` Jean Louis
2021-03-29 17:34       ` Lusin via libreplanet-discuss
2021-03-27  5:58 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2021-03-27  6:13 ` Aaron Wolf
2021-03-27  6:23   ` Thomas Lord
2021-03-27  6:25   ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2021-03-27  6:35     ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2021-03-27 11:42       ` Neils Nesse
2021-03-27 12:12         ` Jean Louis
2021-03-27  6:30 ` Jean Louis
2021-03-27 17:45   ` Danny Spitzberg
     [not found]     ` <YF96LdwX+DQx/0FH@protected.localdomain>
2021-03-27 19:07       ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-03-31  0:15         ` quiliro
2021-03-31  0:06     ` quiliro
2021-03-27  6:18 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2021-04-12 11:23 Ali Reza Hayati
2021-04-12 17:32 ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2021-04-12 17:57   ` Ali Reza Hayati
2021-04-12 18:17   ` Jean Louis
2021-04-13  5:37     ` Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss
2021-04-13  5:57       ` Jean Louis
2021-04-13  6:58         ` Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss
2021-04-13 16:44         ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2021-04-13 12:53       ` Dennis Payne
2021-04-13 15:30         ` quiliro
2021-04-14  0:56 ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2021-04-14  1:00   ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-04-14  1:35     ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2021-04-14  1:42       ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-04-14 15:36         ` Deb Nicholson
2021-04-14 19:07           ` Jean Louis
2021-04-14 19:28             ` Deb Nicholson
     [not found]               ` <YHdGE/dikVycAXWJ@protected.localdomain>
2021-04-14 20:00                 ` Deb Nicholson
2021-04-14 20:37                   ` Jean Louis
2021-04-14 20:23               ` Thomas Lord
2021-04-14 20:55                 ` Jean Louis
2021-04-14 23:13                 ` Ali Reza Hayati
2021-04-15  7:51               ` Alexandre Oliva
2021-04-15  1:13           ` quiliro
2021-04-15  1:53             ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-04-15  2:29               ` quiliro
2021-04-15  8:20           ` Alexandre Oliva
2021-04-15 16:13             ` Deb Nicholson
2021-04-15 17:00               ` Ali Reza Hayati
2021-04-15 17:24                 ` Ali Reza Hayati
2021-04-15 17:39                 ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-04-15 17:47                   ` Ali Reza Hayati
2021-04-15 17:51                     ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-04-15 17:43                 ` Aaron Wolf
2021-04-16  0:54                   ` quiliro
2021-04-16  1:12                     ` Aaron Wolf
2021-04-16  3:51                       ` quiliro
2021-04-16  4:59                       ` Jean Louis
2021-04-16  6:04                         ` Aaron Wolf
2021-04-16  6:56                           ` Jean Louis
2021-04-16 16:09                             ` Aaron Wolf
2021-04-16 16:46                               ` Ali Reza Hayati
     [not found]                           ` <orpmysp80e.fsf@lxoliva.fsfla.org>
2021-04-18  4:48                             ` Aaron Wolf
2021-04-18  5:19                               ` Thomas Lord
2021-04-18  5:24                                 ` Thomas Lord
2021-04-15 17:23               ` Thomas Lord
2021-04-15 17:39                 ` Aaron Wolf
2021-04-15 18:43                   ` Jean Louis
2021-04-15 20:59                     ` Aaron Wolf
2021-04-15 22:40                       ` Alexandre Oliva
2021-04-15 22:49                         ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-04-16  4:36                         ` Jean Louis
2021-04-16  4:43                           ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-04-16  5:02                             ` Jean Louis
2021-04-16  5:21                               ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-04-16  6:22                                 ` Jean Louis
2021-04-16  6:48                                   ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-04-16  7:25                                     ` Jean Louis
2021-04-16  8:07                                       ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-04-16 10:48                                         ` Jean Louis
2021-04-16 14:09                                           ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-04-16 14:52                                             ` Deb Nicholson
2021-04-16 19:26                                               ` Jean Louis
     [not found]                                         ` <CAEYaDQNahppkCt5kEytkaJ34a9zoUXt=W93f8sJErsyvceiXYA@mail.gmail.com>
2021-04-16 10:52                                           ` Jean Louis
2021-04-16 21:06                                     ` Thomas Lord
2021-04-16 21:04                                   ` Thomas Lord
2021-04-16 21:49                                     ` Thomas Lord
2021-04-16 22:04                                       ` Aaron Wolf
2021-04-16 22:08                                         ` Thomas Lord
2021-04-16 22:55                                           ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2021-04-16 21:56                                     ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2021-04-16 22:12                                       ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-04-16 22:18                                         ` Thomas Lord
     [not found]                                       ` <YHqAGLJeGFiJTZ2V@protected.localdomain>
2021-04-18 17:15                                         ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2021-04-16  4:45                         ` Jean Louis
2021-04-16  5:00                           ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-04-16  3:45                       ` Jean Louis
2021-04-15 18:44                   ` Lusin via libreplanet-discuss
2021-04-15 18:39               ` Jean Louis
2021-04-15 18:41               ` Jean Louis
2021-04-15 22:19                 ` Alexandre Oliva
2021-04-15 22:34                   ` Danny Spitzberg
2021-04-15 23:37                     ` Alexandre Oliva
2021-04-16  4:49                       ` Jean Louis
2021-04-16  4:21                     ` Jean Louis
2021-04-16  4:20                   ` Jean Louis
2021-04-15 20:15               ` Alexandre Oliva
2021-04-15 21:00                 ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2021-04-15 21:10               ` Matt Ivie
2021-04-16  6:35               ` Federico Leva (Nemo)
2021-04-14 14:48   ` Ali Reza Hayati
2021-04-14 17:19     ` Adrienne G. Thompson
2021-04-14 18:52       ` Jean Louis
2021-04-14 18:23     ` Jean Louis

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