Re: Support RMS

[Ali Reza Hayati <arh@gnu.org>]

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Thank you Thomas.

On 15/04/2021 00:53, Thomas Lord wrote:
> 
> 
>    The raising of voices in conversation does not have a context
>    independent or culturally universal emotional valence. For
>    some it is normal and expected.  For some it borders on a
>    taboo.
> 
>    Taking the complaint about RMS raising his voice at face
>    value: it borders on antisemitism. I don't mean that every
>    Jew communicates in the style of RMS (of course).  Perhaps
>    we can step back and think about this complaint in that
>    context.
> 
>    Here is a story that might help: Long ago, in the very early
>    days of the FSF, I was an employee and there was more or less
>    one person handling most of the operational day to day
>    corporate business. One day, I had done something that
>    (understandably) pissed RMS off.  You see: after a brief chat
>    with a board member other than RMS, I unilaterally decided to
>    work remotely.  I packed up and moved several states away,
>    almost overnight, to be near my sweetheart (who is now my wife
>    - it's a very romantic story, in retrospect).  I did not
>    notify RMS I was doing this.  It upset him.  He called and
>    yelled.  I was very distressed by this - I didn't expect it at
>    all.  I sought and received consel -- very good consel -- from
>    that woman who was running the day to day business.  "Just
>    hang up on him if he gets like that," she advised.  Later I
>    understood this could be generalized: walk away, if need be.
>    One can also really productively engage, sometimes, also, just
>    by yelling back if you have something relevant and coherent to
>    say.  As an older person now, I realize that part of RMS'
>    reputation comes from him being actually a better and more
>    dynamic conversationalist than most people have ever met --
>    and yes, that can be hard to come to grip with at first.
> 
>    This doesn't mean that RMS or anyone has free reign to be a
>    constant holy terror, always screaming and yelling, but that
>    is not what I ever saw RMS do and is not what any of the
>    complainers have said he does.  Raised voices among
>    friends and allies typify some cultural backgrounds --
>    including mine, ironically enough.  It can, when in those
>    cultural contexts, a bit creepy if someone does not communicate
>    this way.  One asks: what is that quiet person hiding from
>    us?
> 
>    Interruption is a similarly culturally variable communication
>    style.  In some cultures I mix in, it is expected and is often
>    a sign of engagement with what one is saying - silence comes
>    off as rude / checked out. In other cultures, the opposite --
>    interruption is not allowed.  In a multi-cultural world, we
>    should all be tolerant and flexible in our communication
>    styles.  (RMS, meanwhile, is being made to do the limbo by
>    people who think they get to define the One True Civil
>    Converstation Style.  Flexibility in style is a two-way
>    street, chums.)
> 
>    None of this means that people making complaints have invalid
>    feelings that should be ignored. Of course not.  But it does
>    mean that the particular demands against RMS, and the
>    relentless character assassination, need to stop.
> 
>    Lastly, neither Deb nor any of us is qualified to assess
>    whether or not a single person, RMS in this case,
>    "drives people away from the movement" on balance.
>    That's an incredibly arrogant assertion that centers
>    one own cultural expectations and projects them onto
>    an entire planet of people.  Can we end the pointless
>    debate of such assertions once and for all?
> 
>    -t
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 2021-04-14 12:28, Deb Nicholson wrote:
>> I can't comment on the censored email that no one saw.
>>
>>      > It actually serves the opponents of free software quite well to
>>      have
>>      > someone who pushes people away and facilitates a hostile
>>      > environment, be in charge of the FSF.
>>      Quite opposite is true, RMS was never facilitating hostile
>>      environment. FSF is not public, but privately founded non-profit,
>>      founded by RMS, it is equal as his own, and legally he could, if he
>>      would want, keep it totally under his control, but he did not, it is
>>      gift to mankind.
>>
>>    The FSF is a public charity. It is bound by it's US tax status to 
>> serve
>>    the public good, not a personal goal although of course there is
>>    sometimes overlap.
>>    As for a hostile environment, I have witnessed repeated hostility
>>    (bullying, ad hominem attacks, dog-piling, etc.) on the GNU mailing
>>    lists. I have seen RMS shout at people at least a dozen times in
>>    public. He inspires others to also interrupt and shout at people in 
>> the
>>    middle of their public presentations. Those are hostile acts. You may
>>    say they are justified, but they are undeniably hostile.
>>    That you come here with this perversion of truth without any facts or
>>
>>      evidences is disgrace.
>>
>>    I'm not "coming here." I've always been here. I'm a former FSF staff
>>    person who built LibrePlanet into a multi-day event and helped set up
>>    the LibrePlanet wiki and this list. You calling me a liar is a perfect
>>    example of the hostility that I'm telling you pervades the FSF and GNU
>>    communities.
>>
>>      > Also, RMS is not the free software movement.
>>      RMS is the core and heart of the free software movement.
>>      > It's dangerous to conflate an individual with a movement. To say
>>      > that the "free software movement is being attacked" when what's
>>      > actually happening is that a bunch of individuals are calling for
>>      > one person to take responsibility for their behavior is a sloppy
>>      > generalization.
>>      This is just trolling. But censor will like your trolling, as that
>>      is
>>      why your message pass through.
>>
>>    More ad hominem. Ok.
>>
>>      > It's disappointing that so many people have chosen to disbelieve
>>      > former FSF employees, hundreds of women who have encountered RMS
>>      at
>>      > conferences or MIT and many, many free software creators. The vast
>>      > majority of the people who signed the letter asking for RMS to
>>      step
>>      > down, care deeply about free software. I wish more of you would
>>      try
>>      > to consider that.
>>      I am also researcher Deb, and I say, if he did something illegal,
>>      let
>>      those people handle that with him. I have not found anything related
>>      to RMS that justifies that type of cyber-bullying online harassment
>>      public shaming.
>>      Buf if he did not do anything illegal, and somebody complains on his
>>      behavior, don't mix that with his capability to lead FSF or speak
>>      for
>>      free software, it is not related.
>>
>>    If free software is a public good and the goal is for more people to
>>    use free software, then having a leader who drives people away is at
>>    odds with that goal. It's not illegal to poorly mismanage a public
>>    charity, but it does break the trust that donors and volunteers have
>>    places in the organization and they have a right to speak up about it.
>>    Best,
>>    Deb
>>
>>      Jean
>>      Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns:
>>      [1]https://www.fsf.org/campaigns
>>      Sign an open letter in support of Richard M. Stallman
>>      [2]https://stallmansupport.org/
>>      [3]https://rms-support-letter.github.io/
>>
>> References
>>
>>    1. https://www.fsf.org/campaigns
>>    2. https://stallmansupport.org/
>>    3. https://rms-support-letter.github.io/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
> 
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-- 
Ali Reza Hayati (https://alirezahayati.com)
Libre culture activist and privacy advocate
PGP: 88A5 BDB7 E07C 39D0 8132 6412 DCB8 F138 B865 1771


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