From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on dcvr.yhbt.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-ASN: AS22989 209.51.188.0/24 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 required=3.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED,DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_NONE, SPOOFED_FREEMAIL shortcircuit=no autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by dcvr.yhbt.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BC2511F463 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 2019 23:08:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:43806 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iCtuh-0002gT-Jv for e@80x24.org; Tue, 24 Sep 2019 19:08:09 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:43673) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <321942@gmail.com>) id 1iCtfV-0001Ig-6N for libreplanet-discuss@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Sep 2019 18:52:26 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <321942@gmail.com>) id 1iCtfR-0003FQ-G2 for libreplanet-discuss@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Sep 2019 18:52:24 -0400 Received: from mail-wr1-f54.google.com ([209.85.221.54]:36735) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <321942@gmail.com>) id 1iCtfR-0003Es-8n for libreplanet-discuss@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Sep 2019 18:52:21 -0400 Received: by mail-wr1-f54.google.com with SMTP id y19so3912704wrd.3 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 2019 15:52:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:user-agent:accept :accept-language:mail-copies-to:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=IMKzJJQYvXgUTFqHTCHpvUgc7whN0KuOAtI1Lb2hZeI=; b=S+N3ZW/5Q4SYP+01klfZYpMhSuKS2ryHDWf1o2+t639Ugdu8cLwHljtGCPxMiCy1T7 Y6JVBfPG1nTHuQWkNrm4a5fzDp5dgYIt5prwCmecniX72rSKLfmlt485uPrg80kftH/G fU5AwHMyLldlXgvhVfHp50cIdyRFy+HRanXaDKxgbBfccpaAxVnjFRi6ySLl6eP27PfY CksiHBdtkN0UCMN2yXrJrnhMZzj9Bmy/k32MAynRlIDaYYdXLd2e1WLR3X5wkhCNVQAN ba0Wbvs4QZUu4yB+z1YGzpwHp6OJ9joVsdk4kS5YeBw6dEN+MpBqTa49ZgR5CSmkOJWA wm+Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references :user-agent:accept:accept-language:mail-copies-to:date:message-id :mime-version; bh=IMKzJJQYvXgUTFqHTCHpvUgc7whN0KuOAtI1Lb2hZeI=; b=OK6dUuLHgyp5falksJsDJb5yVJixvf/df+gDT1R4ZvPMIJJuqiUnGrkTCauKzeMUMa 9ceYIsjOh7Ln+D4FYO22zJJn/pReIwow+WLkTCdbh0KYOX57VkqysUUk096mV8kuvZZF Lk62BoHiR5bWqb0iECNx7glbplz7ShUyT2BqaiEOLOrKKuzU7mLxqwn+N3LNrgcVhuqO klheG9+5fFVPFihdtxkmJ7aCicQ1RmIsEgl97uMzMT80r6mjr4S9QmcSzUM44p+bw5O3 9DXXnrtjVz5yxNi613gN6uQUu9CCGr96N8AB2SssPwEuNDbRVEurJQGIpOTGmeu9pVfj 2k/Q== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAW5b2WOK7yb1AqhLHKix6Xm7CDr1d4cjmR+xkWBzjY5N7i43UZL 1jlZYDIxOPlwoaxLv/mVQtYbluTBtAA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqy/V6meONZC9725dqO7N0aemz1Z0PGPdldrWqtV+YjQwqcy7pCZLe/vGCTC7FC6LzAYESnsGw== X-Received: by 2002:adf:e701:: with SMTP id c1mr5282551wrm.296.1569365479830; Tue, 24 Sep 2019 15:51:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([109.201.133.30]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l11sm1005252wmh.34.2019.09.24.15.51.17 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Tue, 24 Sep 2019 15:51:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Dmitry Alexandrov <321942@gmail.com> To: Thomas Lord In-Reply-To: <8a13f1a89b81724342bad2a05b0ef85f@basiscraft.com> (Thomas Lord's message of "Tue, 24 Sep 2019 10:41:19 -0700") References: <46b78747-781f-dfbe-9ebb-7639b7644199@gmail.com> <8a13f1a89b81724342bad2a05b0ef85f@basiscraft.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) Accept: text/plain,text/markdown,text/x-org,text/html,text/*,*/* Accept-Language: ru,en Mail-Copies-To: always Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2019 01:51:16 +0300 Message-ID: <1rw5z4t7.321942@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 209.85.221.54 Subject: Introductory documetation for free software (was: Easy to understand way of getting a new computer already setup out of the box as close as can be to rms' principles.) X-BeenThere: libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: libreplanet-discuss@gnu.org, "Federico Leva \(Nemo\)" Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8825843766088530491==" Errors-To: libreplanet-discuss-bounces+e=80x24.org@libreplanet.org Sender: "libreplanet-discuss" --===============8825843766088530491== Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thomas Lord wrote: > "Federico Leva (Nemo)" : >> The way I find the answer is usually this: https://www.fsf.org/resources= / (third link) =E2=86=92 https://www.fsf.org/resources/hw =E2=86=92 https:/= /www.fsf.org/resources/hw/endorsement/respects-your-freedom =E2=86=92 vario= us links including , , . >> >> Does this satisfy your requirements and do you think it's easy enough? D= o you have suggestions for different ways to provide this information? > > No, that is not what I'm hoping to see. Very few people will ever find t= hose links and fewer still have the knowledge to know how to use that infor= mation. The thread seems to be broken, so I=E2=80=99ve lost: what was the question?= Federico evidently answers the question where to buy computers that would= respect users freedom to the most extent possible nowadays. It aligns wit= h the subject. What you=E2=80=99ve written below does not align with the subject well, tho= ugh. > Here is a scenario for thought experiment purposes: > > I have a minor role in Berkeley politics. In this capacity, I sometimes = have occasion to try to interest the "real" politicians in software freedom= , both for their own use and for official use by the City. Pushing people from using nonfree software right to =E2=80=98St. Ignucius= =E2=80=99-level is a sure way to drive them away rather than interest them,= though. > One problem is that there is no material I've ever found on the fsf.org w= ebsite that serves as a good starting point for people. I can't just "give= them a link". Essays that explains the basic concepts of what free software is and why it= is important for individuals and governments are published on https://gnu.= org rather than on fsf.org. If they prefer listening to reading, it might be also useful to direct them= to the recording of one of the RMS=E2=80=99s speeches. > The next problem arises if someone wants to try getting started. Even if= I hand them a pre-loaded device, there is no GNU material to teach them ba= sic GNU (originally unix) concepts, basic system administration, and so on. There is zero reason to teach people system administration when the goal is= to persuade them to switch to _using_ free software. They want use machin= es for their daily jobs, not administer them. Where to send them to study introductory manuals is solely depends, on what= free applications these manual should be. GIMP is one thing, Moodle is an= other. > Or similarly, consider the City IT department - a microsoft shop through = and through. Good luck finding training materials they can adopt and adapt= if they want to put GNU systems on staff desktops I do not quite understand, what topics should these materials cover? > or get away from proprietary software on City servers. I believe, that in year 2019 any competent IT department is fully capable t= o manage their servers without nonfree software (with exception of firmware= and sometimes drivers). If they are not doing that already, there is a sp= ecific reason for that: most probably, they need some very specific nonfree= program. > If GNU, with *help* from the FSF worked on that, one strategy might be to= start with very minimal systems -- nearly "classic unix-like" Why? > and little more -- simply to get a really solid foundation in place, and = build from there. ? --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEE1yoTx9fONarixgNIydoJ3hnBsjAFAl2KneQACgkQydoJ3hnB sjBCiQf+NSwDHz0+Vs67WvNkiRkIiRh58Wf7vYaVShaYZEPfEkJ2Lv3P1XQSJXbK PPuFHKgOPC0dF7kD0sAHNWpvbwwQjCPi2v1IDhQp1x4odicwgUJsHCRoZYSTXpUs jMe8Zsl26NT5xJOfLclHHJLHbuUcPWhwyQH1aA6jb+/KBGN3O9C+zWrRnNW94BX1 JxFIwdR54AEmMXwC49jHRv8ELsEpPlDvmR4I3Hs6an35IWYB502vGhNji0GM/Kd4 smiFuBhej2GF9p72VW6fH/6LKfCKGpIwiFLLbj02y22lfPRvXEfIx/S6vURb82Ei qJS/lRkzFQuyVrPaNpkBZPDWZShPWg== =bOqQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- --===============8825843766088530491== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KbGlicmVwbGFu ZXQtZGlzY3VzcyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QKbGlicmVwbGFuZXQtZGlzY3Vzc0BsaWJyZXBsYW5ldC5v cmcKaHR0cHM6Ly9saXN0cy5saWJyZXBsYW5ldC5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9saWJyZXBs YW5ldC1kaXNjdXNz --===============8825843766088530491==--