Re: Easy to understand way of getting a new computer already setup out of the box as close as can be to rms' principles.

Re: Easy to understand way of getting a new computer already setup out of the box as close as can be to rms' principles.

[Federico Leva (Nemo)]

The way I find the answer is usually this: 
https://www.fsf.org/resources/ (third link) → 
https://www.fsf.org/resources/hw → 
https://www.fsf.org/resources/hw/endorsement/respects-your-freedom → 
various links including <https://tehnoetic.com/TET-X200>, 
<https://store.vikings.net/libre-friendly-hardware/x200-ryf-certfied>, 
<https://minifree.org/product/libreboot-x200/>.

Does this satisfy your requirements and do you think it's easy enough? 
Do you have suggestions for different ways to provide this information?

Federico

P.s.: I had to copy the Message-ID from the mbox archive

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Re: Easy to understand way of getting a new computer already setup out of the box as close as can be to rms' principles.

[Thomas Lord]

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No, that is not what I'm hoping to see.  Very few people will ever find
those links and fewer still have the knowledge to know how to use that
information. 

Here is a scenario for thought experiment purposes: 

I have a minor role in Berkeley politics.  In this capacity, I sometimes
have occasion to try to interest the "real" politicians in software
freedom, both for their own use and for official use by the City.   One
problem is that there is no material I've ever found on the fsf.org
website that serves as a good starting point for people.  I can't just
"give them a link".    The next problem arises if someone wants to try
getting started.   Even if I hand them a pre-loaded device, there is no
GNU material to teach them basic GNU (originally unix) concepts, basic
system administration, and so on.   Or similarly, consider the City IT
department - a microsoft shop through and through.  Good luck finding
training materials they can adopt and adapt if they want to put GNU
systems on staff desktops, or get away from proprietary software on City
servers.   None of these very basic elements are present but my belief
is that they would go a long way to spreading software freedom. 

If GNU, with *help* from the FSF worked on that, one strategy might be
to start with very minimal systems -- nearly "classic unix-like" and
little more -- simply to get a really solid foundation in place, and
build from there. 

-t 

On 2019-09-24 01:08, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote:

> The way I find the answer is usually this: https://www.fsf.org/resources/ (third link) → https://www.fsf.org/resources/hw → https://www.fsf.org/resources/hw/endorsement/respects-your-freedom → various links including <https://tehnoetic.com/TET-X200>, <https://store.vikings.net/libre-friendly-hardware/x200-ryf-certfied>, <https://minifree.org/product/libreboot-x200/>.
> 
> Does this satisfy your requirements and do you think it's easy enough? Do you have suggestions for different ways to provide this information?
> 
> Federico
> 
> P.s.: I had to copy the Message-ID from the mbox archive
> 
> _______________________________________________
> libreplanet-discuss mailing list
> libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
> https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss

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   No, that is not what I'm hoping to see.  Very few people will ever find
   those links and fewer still have the knowledge to know how to use that
   information.

   Here is a scenario for thought experiment purposes:

   I have a minor role in Berkeley politics.  In this capacity, I
   sometimes have occasion to try to interest the "real" politicians in
   software freedom, both for their own use and for official use by the
   City.   One problem is that there is no material I've ever found on the
   fsf.org website that serves as a good starting point for people.  I
   can't just "give them a link".    The next problem arises if someone
   wants to try getting started.   Even if I hand them a pre-loaded
   device, there is no GNU material to teach them basic GNU (originally
   unix) concepts, basic system administration, and so on.   Or similarly,
   consider the City IT department - a microsoft shop through and
   through.  Good luck finding training materials they can adopt and adapt
   if they want to put GNU systems on staff desktops, or get away from
   proprietary software on City servers.   None of these very basic
   elements are present but my belief is that they would go a long way to
   spreading software freedom.

   If GNU, with *help* from the FSF worked on that, one strategy might be
   to start with very minimal systems -- nearly "classic unix-like" and
   little more -- simply to get a really solid foundation in place, and
   build from there.

   -t



   On 2019-09-24 01:08, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote:

   The way I find the answer is usually this:
   [1]https://www.fsf.org/resources/ (third link) →
   [2]https://www.fsf.org/resources/hw →
   [3]https://www.fsf.org/resources/hw/endorsement/respects-your-freedom →
   various links including <[4]https://tehnoetic.com/TET-X200>,
   <[5]https://store.vikings.net/libre-friendly-hardware/x200-ryf-certfied
   >, <[6]https://minifree.org/product/libreboot-x200/>.
   Does this satisfy your requirements and do you think it's easy enough?
   Do you have suggestions for different ways to provide this information?
   Federico
   P.s.: I had to copy the Message-ID from the mbox archive
   _______________________________________________
   libreplanet-discuss mailing list
   [7]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
   [8]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss

References

   1. https://www.fsf.org/resources/
   2. https://www.fsf.org/resources/hw
   3. https://www.fsf.org/resources/hw/endorsement/respects-your-freedom
   4. https://tehnoetic.com/TET-X200
   5. https://store.vikings.net/libre-friendly-hardware/x200-ryf-certfied
   6. https://minifree.org/product/libreboot-x200/
   7. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
   8. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss

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Re: Easy to understand way of getting a new computer already setup out of the box as close as can be to rms' principles.

[Federico Leva (Nemo)]

Thomas Lord, 24/09/19 20:41:
> Very few people will ever find those links and fewer still have the 
> knowledge to know how to use that information.

Can you clarify? Are you saying they wouldn't be able to use a pretty 
standard webshop, or that the offer doesn't satisfy their needs?

> [...] Or similarly, consider the City IT 
> department - a microsoft shop through and through. Good luck finding 
> training materials they can adopt and adapt if they want to put GNU 
> systems on staff desktops, or get away from proprietary software on City 
> servers.

This is certainly more complicated. It's usually not enough to provide 
documentation: you need thorough analysis and development, in-person 
training, support, social change management etc. The Document Foundation 
has a protocol for the migration to LibreOffice and some advice on 
migration consultants.

https://web.archive.org/web/20170622191021/https://www.documentfoundation.org/assets/Certification/tdf-migrationprotocol.pdf
https://www.documentfoundation.org/gethelp/migrators/

It's a lot of work and it needs to be done properly. There are some 
examples one can copy from various large public administrations around 
the world but there is no one size fits all process.

Federico

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Introductory documetation for free software (was: Easy to understand way of getting a new computer already setup out of the box as close as can be to rms' principles.)

[Dmitry Alexandrov]

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Thomas Lord <lord@basiscraft.com> wrote:
> "Federico Leva (Nemo)" <nemowiki@gmail.com>:
>> The way I find the answer is usually this: https://www.fsf.org/resources/ (third link) → https://www.fsf.org/resources/hw → https://www.fsf.org/resources/hw/endorsement/respects-your-freedom → various links including <https://tehnoetic.com/TET-X200>, <https://store.vikings.net/libre-friendly-hardware/x200-ryf-certfied>, <https://minifree.org/product/libreboot-x200/>.
>>
>> Does this satisfy your requirements and do you think it's easy enough? Do you have suggestions for different ways to provide this information?
>
> No, that is not what I'm hoping to see.  Very few people will ever find those links and fewer still have the knowledge to know how to use that information.

The thread seems to be broken, so I’ve lost: what was the question?  Federico evidently answers the question where to buy computers that would respect users freedom to the most extent possible nowadays.  It aligns with the subject.

What you’ve written below does not align with the subject well, though.

> Here is a scenario for thought experiment purposes:
>
> I have a minor role in Berkeley politics.  In this capacity, I sometimes have occasion to try to interest the "real" politicians in software freedom, both for their own use and for official use by the City.

Pushing people from using nonfree software right to ‘St. Ignucius’-level is a sure way to drive them away rather than interest them, though.

> One problem is that there is no material I've ever found on the fsf.org website that serves as a good starting point for people.  I can't just "give them a link".

Essays that explains the basic concepts of what free software is and why it is important for individuals and governments are published on https://gnu.org rather than on fsf.org.

If they prefer listening to reading, it might be also useful to direct them to the recording of one of the RMS’s speeches.

> The next problem arises if someone wants to try getting started.  Even if I hand them a pre-loaded device, there is no GNU material to teach them basic GNU (originally unix) concepts, basic system administration, and so on.

There is zero reason to teach people system administration when the goal is to persuade them to switch to _using_ free software.  They want use machines for their daily jobs, not administer them.

Where to send them to study introductory manuals is solely depends, on what free applications these manual should be.  GIMP is one thing, Moodle is another.

> Or similarly, consider the City IT department - a microsoft shop through and through.  Good luck finding training materials they can adopt and adapt if they want to put GNU systems on staff desktops

I do not quite understand, what topics should these materials cover?

> or get away from proprietary software on City servers.

I believe, that in year 2019 any competent IT department is fully capable to manage their servers without nonfree software (with exception of firmware and sometimes drivers).  If they are not doing that already, there is a specific reason for that: most probably, they need some very specific nonfree program.

> If GNU, with *help* from the FSF worked on that, one strategy might be to start with very minimal systems -- nearly "classic unix-like"

Why?

> and little more -- simply to get a really solid foundation in place, and build from there.

?

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