From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on dcvr.yhbt.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.9 required=3.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,DKIM_INVALID, DKIM_SIGNED,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS shortcircuit=no autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by dcvr.yhbt.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3D73B1F5AE for ; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 18:06:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:58116 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1k1Cwj-0001hS-G0 for e@80x24.org; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 14:06:25 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:37130) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1k1BJy-0005Yf-22 for libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 12:22:18 -0400 Received: from mx1.riseup.net ([198.252.153.129]:46880) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1k1BJu-0001vR-PZ for libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 12:22:17 -0400 Received: from bell.riseup.net (bell-pn.riseup.net [10.0.1.178]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.riseup.net", Issuer "Sectigo RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (not verified)) by mx1.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BHbKC3ByqzDt0j for ; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 09:22:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=riseup.net; s=squak; t=1596126127; bh=55+K3wK9I9kmRKiFbeuV60E5NwoeTBFAmOmKAuNpvSI=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=T+FjFFVqsvT5Rb4xPMfB2Sj52X4tzugJMelFrCbPBrnggMP4bjIrzFU1teAuBJmYN O7i7YyYRcZz4rQ6MKu3EB7SKNf6F1uyoNyezFLMM4Qcduv4nr3lmpNB7Qo/j65BU2n Uut1q9e4uMZ5puYfaIwGlY/vTdbbgoJwYNsYWw1w= X-Riseup-User-ID: 69EBF2902B404ECFA904F96101C0CF128B85832D3D22E80AA4EE1292947C0A87 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bell.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4BHbKB4pJqzJnDH for ; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 09:22:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Matrix communication protocol. To: libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org References: <1595541394.1159.3@disroot.org> <1596039936.1150.2@disroot.org> <20200730043725.GC25289@ossguy.com> <1596125074.1189.0@disroot.org> From: Ali Reza Hayati Autocrypt: addr=hayati@riseup.net; keydata= mQINBF7VWnMBEADIRxmrmCg1WP8JSgwwlZx/QXWjdvpN7mqxDGW3F43mWxCYkB+tL2fJVfaY qhdb/gSu3YZ6qKVs+WKQ+1zvw7GRV/8jBoGKvD4LMwDEMnwdrfVUHZJ7TBkSPES67LF0Jgod 1b9a0qV9/d3PJJqjaqcUNEMXChRI8qhuwqZfjlANAX0jx+9uOh5Eh9cTIth/956Hhw1BXyuX fVfGgF3wqTB+AIuecJKn9QKN5Rw0isFe0MTgs+GAto0cZp7V4dnvtgCTjYJlp7azFgymRKKF axW2ks7cXyqTiLp472q/Yztb0dJfsxfjnIfJlw0Z9HlSgsaIHsZ7XFt0Oq7Zhlv/XjKbJR1m ht2yP4gmPL67z2Gooqbzgb7e28EEFwYgRa/OHviprRv8PhKv3eO9uhSozYAh50QC84lV4Vdv YllJuP9jWUFdin9OqHVPMm49SbjRNdfk3RseELjfRjMdfiUb7GFHKv7qlvLzeDKPpi91hRq9 kfB8/HE0NDjFaKA8BzDx7LlGzCx++mq3i1t8UCrYYr+NH9yyOjhvc96zXYR1pi3YUGNsvccd ZOheHBrv7pl8rz+lqqJFdQQeBJbzycEdGw0iw6zEspN7Zi4Jg0DpLQmx8bPnyiUaWdXCzPqu WV5E8f1rUjFMMBlrrPH21sbNiWEC4vrIzzQWcbcSBErkUCdYkwARAQABtCNBbGkgUmV6YSBI YXlhdGkgPGhheWF0aUByaXNldXAubmV0PokCTgQTAQgAOBYhBGrNi/RBCehSlrcvIGEYzOIQ gNDiBQJfDw0ZAhsjBQsJCAcCBhUKCQgLAgQWAgMBAh4BAheAAAoJEGEYzOIQgNDizGYP/3Ws 9g6aNmcULSoTI0Y/hFkheHpzLJUFwovJe04vPkcGMdsa1EElnotaF552s+8QswhjqPiCJgS9 NkL/NQ73yT6cFTAAVs11mzXMvfr0Mkw0JJQGlCa/7DilG2SilXEYuMmfid7Q1z7OVYdCuJ0J uUGRn7hdrj0MSpFAufaaCx64j4y/W2KXoSqvcJlPVFzlk5maBLlCDl7NglGN9tI7fA/t+axH smXl/CBJiQgj7Mrgt0K90l1f4qHsZ3j9egzWIRNCMCrLekc0vbYyRzB726zZudHT/hlASlTM ExebjGihWw81x90mAmUwr5zC/DOk9+rpqwGtoGRBm0T+5Ov9yMhFj5f3H7ddky48wx3mtpc4 AcTvocUpxEaPKpeEEiYgBo0/QbiF9GnOl09E2FZ1BfLfKGKk/AIg9CBZZ01L1dutgpAe0+v8 nEZqH9Hru2G6lGqVGLQzBgA1Kpw69O/pSqfDDOzJmIWcid9Q2rdaeSedEpxlZ0w7aOqTbGW/ PkrTjuDgD7IsZYej78XUlUgkKJLYpiZw+DMIYg3q5fQWwjjKmUoPq+Y0XVoSVaR/gReIYjkD y2v91epI69G5oiV87bjctqZq7eF9PT9qFFNFv2xf7yS81DN1+7yQYel6hs7WPY27aQmTJIxK Ei9yvBsl7r/fkR+bH4ml32q2BCnFd2ibuQINBF7VWnMBEAC7jgKH3m0dwZKj7w1wy2+H8P+a UkRqX2Thg7Xd4I32D3K3rxLhvSa3klv2puqw21siY3cL+sR29PLLBA0ail0THPLHwbyaeJWT EeUzkmUt3XNTglQtJN3tjI03B5WIk2H2mjXc7R0cE249VuLoVoRkqNzMBiAOLqhPCs6QPDnY fRURo3TDbAStoxIg4HWwXDxNG28IOZnwln0xyaqjeaeH9lRLD7Ni5qbIsBOH+lNa2oM8ptFf q4G3KA4L779lorGRSl4aYrM74uAzh4pKGRNyb8GRFX1T/+nWixdPQeqTDA1C8zb8r7INlAsl qXYEA6AXCtd+QWP98sVxDoKdV2FIw/wE/hZmIzGtdM5P+z1S8kBTzPPv8qyiyamhnbzxiUQR Ae87idF6Rhmg3KVeyOUQBBdzf/t08tALqqAESJ4F0SA7Mf+xt1hgpWlAWz2+lE8UbEM/OwrF ATWGv2gVWPgTQ7BcKaQEE9CLJYfMb9YSrZScwgR2mYQpPpbtSpDTPINO03NYWgFDs7VAwREy //BQMMZVzMv9GFr3ixGg+KPeQjksoqAbI16U84AiQEAqqKSgtyB9lyXJ6x/TiGv5IoIVIbQ5 UrPmg0eb2n/JilUNfVMmfDmjZu83nc6/cR2WyNjEsHkGJZaJDnMAJvmv3DFQqLB4zf9nTY/t q5+OuzbpcwARAQABiQI2BBgBCgAgFiEEas2L9EEJ6FKWty8gYRjM4hCA0OIFAl7VWnMCGwwA CgkQYRjM4hCA0OL2URAAoIRykfcy9swwX3k6IH+y4pipQjTxAKPB7vhoZcs04Xb33qN3MRsZ 1ZmvFlbTyd1y/hFqR51kbe/CQJc8dms9qnLxrlISjy2mJRS8TBJwurCO9R8NhoRs/s95OuXu PkAiZ7qjz5gArQfUSFalAdsoh87PgH7dNxcGexNgSvXHJlnjJyZ01CZk47SU49VZsHoNYlos UgnPSqf9JD7xh2cj+FEzimTwxUMw7K/WQ8c8TJleWzq87g1YhP7RBoQN5A8sUs8VrqIbqQJ/ apyDcMj7TCqmb2hHfCUVVPASB/xXk9jlQkzt7IlH0oBQ5wjRZIacpTNgaByLM3UjAD+njmo1 1w2TRrcS3mrJKGzMCViys746Icf+YkeRO9g+vzZTFGXdM4eX02betreAdY6/cDZGgBVIG1Us x+hR+yj9gl1HBP1N2p2RhS9H9uWqBCaUJMqdpg3wKvehJubTEAGQtjyUirkgcvbVitrjJE7o bBxIEGPh3AWOXd5ApgzmkIURKVN3dVqqDFkk6PedKtnapKIQl9SRAdKfqV8BbLpBILKIjMJl zBgNQTWhyVr1ryWukC5yjMSgUoqGidLSVLMQzN12MdT0ahaFLCNpJW/UBDaymnnBl9fVdqs3 hOw1wbQKHAs6WgqhqX6gQfPgMUKt7LSlhGv4thH/JOMBOMG01RC+IV4= Message-ID: <1ce44447-060f-ecd8-3578-b898c40fa3c5@riseup.net> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2020 20:51:52 +0430 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1596125074.1189.0@disroot.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=198.252.153.129; envelope-from=hayati@riseup.net; helo=mx1.riseup.net X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/07/30 12:22:07 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 30 Jul 2020 14:04:38 -0400 X-BeenThere: libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5159349947668623275==" Errors-To: libreplanet-discuss-bounces+e=80x24.org@libreplanet.org Sender: "libreplanet-discuss" This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --===============5159349947668623275== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="5rQRwdjuIOLj2awJq1TtjHt52PkGluHgT" This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --5rQRwdjuIOLj2awJq1TtjHt52PkGluHgT Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="SIqliFPEVX85fUeKo3f7w54S9zj3tUWWN" --SIqliFPEVX85fUeKo3f7w54S9zj3tUWWN Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If you ever considered using Riot (newly renamed to Element), please note that Riot/Element has Electron and Electron is considered nonfree. Electron has Chromium in it but it doesn't include all licenses of Chromium so it's a violation of software freedom. On 7/30/20 8:34 PM, Msavoritias wrote: > Dino is not available for Android it seems though. On desktop there = are > choices. > I wanted a client for Android so i searched on Google play and Fdroi= d > but couldn't find one with acceptable design. Proprietary or otherwi= se. > I understand that tech people don't care about UI/UX but we need som= e > nice looking clients. > Plus I have seen that there is a huge shift to Matrix for non-tech > people. > IRC and XMPP seem to stay into obscurity. XMPP would have been popul= ar > by now. > And what good is a system if its not popular? I don't want to messag= e > my self. > Matrix is the only protocol that is actively developed, is Free > Software (although not AGPL-3), and seems to have a consensus by the= > wider community. Also the clients seem to decently designed. > I'm saying all this because if we want to attract more Free Software= > users, like it or not we need a good presentation with good interfac= e. > otherwise we risk to fall into obscurity. > No, Im not saying to use proprietary messaging to attract users. > MSavoritias >=20 > On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 04:37, Denver Gingerich > wrote: >=20 > On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 06:25:36PM +0200, Msavoritias wrote: >=20 > On Fri, Jul 24, 2020 at 11:47, Adonay Felipe Nogueira via > libreplanet-discuss <[1]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org> wrote= : > Note: I don't speak for FSF, nor for GNU. Em 23/07/2020 18:56, > Msavoritias escreveu: I would like to ask is it in the works to ha= ve > an official FSF/GNU server in the future? Are there any blockers I= > can help with? FSF already has XMPP service for their associate > members. I guess it comes down to personal preference but for me I= > didn't see the same features in all the clients I tried and almost= > all of them were badly designed. This doesn't help with convincing= > people to use XMPP. >=20 > Where did you go to determine which XMPP clients to try? And which > clients did you try? I believe there should be better resources to > allow people to more easily find the best XMPP clients - I'm trying = to > do my part with the recommendations at [2]https://jmp.chat/#clients > (for the free software service I run). In short, use Gajim or > Conversations. If you want fancy design but less features, then Dino= =2E > Hopefully we can make these recommendations more widely-known so tha= t > people don't give up on XMPP. It's an excellent protocol and is very= > easy to use and featureful if you have the right client. Denver > [3]https://jmp.chat/ >=20 > References >=20 > 1. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org > 2. https://jmp.chat/#clients > 3. https://jmp.chat/ >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > libreplanet-discuss mailing list > libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org > https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss >=20 --=20 Ali Reza Hayati www.alirezahayati.com --SIqliFPEVX85fUeKo3f7w54S9zj3tUWWN-- --5rQRwdjuIOLj2awJq1TtjHt52PkGluHgT Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEas2L9EEJ6FKWty8gYRjM4hCA0OIFAl8i86oACgkQYRjM4hCA 0OLy6A/9Hl/KMlDKKkA9cT5FdR5zZN/vF5FnLyB7BdnVTnEyEgQ+BXhL9jDWtVh7 87Ygrwk4wV6cCLtU3Ykc8ypIz067IIvkqUDiTABckm2X5NsqFWKQvPvwr8swQM+m /ZS/H6ZhAh3F84IxFx1ho/vKYhf68u2n8U3HIJ9ozTJW/hJ06cbsGqj2MsR+Cfl3 gWN7+072GG6acWHw8F3sTE5fSttIObPiD1q1ECLP/0RnmUdMjd+7rqPkjn5/xGmR yxLU0j/p/unBrS8ykdoo+9SrzlRv3kVlHNTo95PzQlnGk0KpCOjDXjRTCmnT4ahJ qWm1v7VF3Rwfh62w6UKgQwL6AiDC0MySBiNq3ICbFXAePXcxo1eciPu9Ew6CrcTj tCbT5ChnXQIx6Kl9nqBGtuPA9a/mZUclO3uAXIhPjzy3F0TO3NpxsG5j8lGZEkO2 OMjFa9wuvifARrHoi8SCQ/CloQqxMhHBYmgGzdO72UVjSIz3SDGofGbBO5sBB/Sq DLik9EfxsdxQneass06yyEXxqHz33za+a9xrL/8PeKHXHMifyzZhicIWkz7i3vbx CTuAUd9HTLVV/Xpshl1eaTVcQvBTlTFIVhlovLkij3WDtHdt4SxklG3qsmXgalvQ w64F6ZmIO0qRj+dJ6FMqFjrJai4FscBc188G6FZCorSTINTvcb8= =h36s -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --5rQRwdjuIOLj2awJq1TtjHt52PkGluHgT-- --===============5159349947668623275== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KbGlicmVwbGFu ZXQtZGlzY3VzcyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QKbGlicmVwbGFuZXQtZGlzY3Vzc0BsaWJyZXBsYW5ldC5v cmcKaHR0cHM6Ly9saXN0cy5saWJyZXBsYW5ldC5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9saWJyZXBs YW5ldC1kaXNjdXNz --===============5159349947668623275==--