Re: Matrix communication protocol.

[Msavoritias <marinus.savoritias@disroot.org>]

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My only issues is not the two that you mention. We have also:

1. No coherent Standard so everybody can have the same features.
2. Not a lot of Clients.
3. Not a lot of Clients that look decent.
4. No communities.
5. No threading.
6. No Voice rooms like Discord.

These are just some of the problems that I have. As I explained above 
Matrix is for groups mostly. And it is much more welcoming to newcomers 
than IRC or XMPP. or even Mailing lists for that matter.

Well FSF has Wire as a high priority project. WHich is a straight for 
Profit Company unlike Matrix.
Also I didn't know FSF was against companies. Their latest article is 
that being FLOSS doesn't mean no Companies.

<https://directory.fsf.org/wiki/Collection:High_Priority_Projects>

But you can already get involved in Matrix and developing the Spec. 
Isn't that what you mean?

Well the IRC that we currently using has not encryption. So what 
exactly are comparing here?

MSavoritias

On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 10:43, Adonay Felipe Nogueira via 
libreplanet-discuss <libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org> wrote:
> Em 31/07/2020 16:20, Adrien Bourmault (neox on freenode) escreveu:
>>     Matrix is a badly designed protocol (especially the s2s part) 
>> and is
> 
> Interesting, I wonder if there are references to that.
> 
>>     The XSF point of view is different from the Matrix/Vector one : 
>> the XSF
>>     is a non profit foundation, in the tracks of IETF. They made a 
>> protocol
>>     in the hope that it will be useful and that's it. You can't say 
>> the
>>     same for Vector.
> 
> Good point. On a not so similar subject, this seems to align with the
> arguments presented by Software Freedom Conservancy (SFConservancy) in
> regards to copyleft enforcement (almost all of their talks, including
> the recorded ones, present this "who best enforces copyleft?" 
> paradigm,
> and all results in either individual copyright holders or these 
> signing
> their contributions to one of FSF-and-sisters, SFConservancy or 
> Software
> Freedom Law Center, and avoiding non-disclosure agreements, trade
> secrets and contributor license agreements).
> 
>>     of both Conversations and ChatSecure are always in touch, and 
>> are XSF
>>     members. There are many forks of both, and it provides 
>> additionnal
> 
> Indeed, in open standards, people and projects being members of the
> standards committees/workgroups is a very important thing, specially 
> if
> many are in favor of free/libre software or if the group itself has 
> that
> commitment or is a non-profit, preferably a charity.
> 
>>     On mobile, there is only one functionnal Matrix client : 
>> Element. And
>>     it advocates for non free software, especially Google one.
> 
> The references in my previous replies to this topic also agree with 
> you. :)
> 
>>     Have you ever read RMS ? Or listen to him ? Everyone should care 
>> about
>>     privacy, everyone should encrypt his communications. XMPP's 
>> modern
>>     encryption (known as OMEMO) is way more secure than Olm/Megolm 
>> (because
>>     it seems Vector thought that forward secrecy was an anti-feature 
>> lol).
> 
> That is scary indeed.
> 
>>     beautiful. Free software is about freedom, not popularity
> 
> And with this I contribute referencing to [1].
> 
> 
> # References
> 
> 
> [1]: 
> <https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.html> .
> 
> 
> --
> * Ativista do software livre
> 	* <https://libreplanet.org/wiki/User:Adfeno>
> 	* Membro dos grupos avaliadores de
> 		* Software (Free Software Directory)
> 		* Distribuições de sistemas (FreedSoftware)
> 		* Sites (Free JavaScript Action Team)
> 	* Não sou advogado e não fomento os não livres
> * Sempre veja o spam/lixo eletrônico do teu e-mail
> 	* Ou coloque todos os recebidos na caixa de entrada
> * Sempre assino e-mails com OpenPGP
> 	* Chave pública: vide endereço anterior
> 	* Qualquer outro pode ser fraude
> 	* Se não tens OpenPGP, ignore o anexo "signature.asc"
> * Ao enviar anexos
> 	* Docs., planilhas e apresentações: use OpenDocument
> 	* Outros tipos: vide endereço anterior
> * Use protocolos de comunicação federadas
> 	* Vide endereço anterior
> * Mensagens secretas somente via
> 	* XMPP com OMEMO
> 	* E-mail criptografado e assinado com OpenPGP
> 
> _______________________________________________
> libreplanet-discuss mailing list
> libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org 
> <mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org>
> <https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss>


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   My only issues is not the two that you mention. We have also:
   1. No coherent Standard so everybody can have the same features.
   2. Not a lot of Clients.
   3. Not a lot of Clients that look decent.
   4. No communities.
   5. No threading.
   6. No Voice rooms like Discord.
   These are just some of the problems that I have. As I explained above
   Matrix is for groups mostly. And it is much more welcoming to newcomers
   than IRC or XMPP. or even Mailing lists for that matter.
   Well FSF has Wire as a high priority project. WHich is a straight for
   Profit Company unlike Matrix.
   Also I didn't know FSF was against companies. Their latest article is
   that being FLOSS doesn't mean no Companies.
   [1]https://directory.fsf.org/wiki/Collection:High_Priority_Projects
   But you can already get involved in Matrix and developing the Spec.
   Isn't that what you mean?
   Well the IRC that we currently using has not encryption. So what
   exactly are comparing here?
   MSavoritias

   On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 10:43, Adonay Felipe Nogueira via
   libreplanet-discuss <libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org> wrote:

   Em 31/07/2020 16:20, Adrien Bourmault (neox on freenode) escreveu:

     Matrix is a badly designed protocol (especially the s2s part) and is

   Interesting, I wonder if there are references to that.

     The XSF point of view is different from the Matrix/Vector one : the
     XSF is a non profit foundation, in the tracks of IETF. They made a
     protocol in the hope that it will be useful and that's it. You can't
     say the same for Vector.

   Good point. On a not so similar subject, this seems to align with the
   arguments presented by Software Freedom Conservancy (SFConservancy) in
   regards to copyleft enforcement (almost all of their talks, including
   the recorded ones, present this "who best enforces copyleft?" paradigm,
   and all results in either individual copyright holders or these signing
   their contributions to one of FSF-and-sisters, SFConservancy or
   Software Freedom Law Center, and avoiding non-disclosure agreements,
   trade secrets and contributor license agreements).

     of both Conversations and ChatSecure are always in touch, and are
     XSF members. There are many forks of both, and it provides
     additionnal

   Indeed, in open standards, people and projects being members of the
   standards committees/workgroups is a very important thing, specially if
   many are in favor of free/libre software or if the group itself has
   that commitment or is a non-profit, preferably a charity.

     On mobile, there is only one functionnal Matrix client : Element.
     And it advocates for non free software, especially Google one.

   The references in my previous replies to this topic also agree with
   you. :)

     Have you ever read RMS ? Or listen to him ? Everyone should care
     about privacy, everyone should encrypt his communications. XMPP's
     modern encryption (known as OMEMO) is way more secure than
     Olm/Megolm (because it seems Vector thought that forward secrecy was
     an anti-feature lol).

   That is scary indeed.

     beautiful. Free software is about freedom, not popularity

   And with this I contribute referencing to [1]. # References [1]:
   [2]https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.html .
   --
   * Ativista do software livre *
   [3]https://libreplanet.org/wiki/User:Adfeno * Membro dos grupos
   avaliadores de * Software (Free Software Directory) * Distribuies de
   sistemas (FreedSoftware) * Sites (Free JavaScript Action Team) * No sou
   advogado e no fomento os no livres * Sempre veja o spam/lixo eletrnico
   do teu e-mail * Ou coloque todos os recebidos na caixa de entrada *
   Sempre assino e-mails com OpenPGP * Chave pblica: vide endereo anterior
   * Qualquer outro pode ser fraude * Se no tens OpenPGP, ignore o anexo
   "signature.asc" * Ao enviar anexos * Docs., planilhas e apresentaes:
   use OpenDocument * Outros tipos: vide endereo anterior * Use protocolos
   de comunicao federadas * Vide endereo anterior * Mensagens secretas
   somente via * XMPP com OMEMO * E-mail criptografado e assinado com
   OpenPGP

   _______________________________________________ libreplanet-discuss
   mailing list [4]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
   [5]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss

References

   1. https://directory.fsf.org/wiki/Collection:High_Priority_Projects
   2. https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.html
   3. https://libreplanet.org/wiki/User:Adfeno
   4. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
   5. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss

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