Re: Matrix communication protocol.

[Msavoritias <marinus.savoritias@disroot.org>]

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Conversations is badly designed. I am talking from experience trying 
for people to adopt it.
Every other client listed on this page: 
<https://xmpp.org/software/clients.html> for android is basically with 
design from twenty years ago.
There doesn't seem to be new clients popping up. for mobile at least.
In contrast Matrix <https://matrix.org/clients/> has a lot of new 
clients with active development.

I checked. It does have some development. Which seems interesting 
considering the stagnation of clients for mobile.

Its not the problem of something Conversations are missing. Although it 
misses a lot of stuff. Like stickers and widgets.
The thing is that every client I installed had different capabilities 
entirely. It made sense when I read the phylosophy behind XMPP and 
Matrix though. Matrix wants to be ,from my perspective, a coherent 
standard. One piece. XMPP is more modular. Which explains the 
fragmentation in the XMPP ecosystem.

That''s true. It is still in heavy development. It does have though at 
least 4 server implementations that I know of. Some of them are 
lightweight. One of them by matrix.org themselves as a planeed rewrite 
for the slow current server.
Also bear in mind that the Goverment of France, and the Goverment of 
Germany along with some other providers. Also Kde and Gnome have moved 
there. Matrix is here to stay.

On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 16:27, Denver Gingerich <denver@ossguy.com> 
wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 06:04:34PM +0200, Msavoritias wrote:
>>  I wanted a client for Android so i searched on Google play and 
>> Fdroid but
>>  couldn't find one with acceptable design. Proprietary or otherwise.
> 
> What is wrong with Conversations?
> 
> <https://f-droid.org/app/eu.siacs.conversations>
> <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=eu.siacs.conversations>
> 
>>  Plus I have seen that there is a huge shift to Matrix for non-tech 
>> people.
>>  IRC and XMPP seem to stay into obscurity. XMPP would have been 
>> popular by
>>  now.
>>  And what good is a system if its not popular? I don't want to 
>> message my
>>  self.
>>  Matrix is the only protocol that is actively developed, is Free 
>> Software
>>  (although not AGPL-3), and seems to have a consensus by the wider 
>> community.
> 
> XMPP is also actively developed and has many free software 
> implementations (including some that are AGPLv3, like 
> <https://jmp.chat/> ).
> 
> If you want/need a gratis account that supports all the important 
> features, see <https://dismail.de/register.html> .
> 
>>  Also the clients seem to decently designed.
> 
> See above - is there something Conversations is missing versus the 
> Matrix client(s) for Android?
> 
>>  I'm saying all this because if we want to attract more Free 
>> Software users,
>>  like it or not we need a good presentation with good interface. 
>> otherwise we
>>  risk to fall into obscurity.
>>  No, Im not saying to use proprietary messaging to attract users.
> 
> I definitely agree.  However, I think we need to look at which 
> protocols are likely to stand the test of time.  Matrix is very new, 
> and the server implementation(s?) is extremely resource-heavy.  XMPP 
> has been around for over 20 years and has multiple lightweight server 
> implementations.
> 
> Denver
> <https://jmp.chat/>
> 
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> libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org 
> <mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org>
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   Conversations is badly designed. I am talking from experience trying
   for people to adopt it.
   Every other client listed on this
   page: [1]https://xmpp.org/software/clients.html for android is
   basically with design from twenty years ago.
   There doesn't seem to be new clients popping up. for mobile at least.
   In contrast Matrix [2]https://matrix.org/clients/ has a lot of new
   clients with active development.
   I checked. It does have some development. Which seems interesting
   considering the stagnation of clients for mobile.
   Its not the problem of something Conversations are missing. Although it
   misses a lot of stuff. Like stickers and widgets.
   The thing is that every client I installed had different capabilities
   entirely. It made sense when I read the phylosophy be hind XMPP and
   Matrix though. Matrix wants to be ,from my perspective, a coherent
   standard. One piece. XMPP is more modular. Which explains the
   fragmentation in the XMPP ecosystem.
   That''s true. It is still in heavy development. It does have though at
   least 4 server implementations that I know of. Some of them are
   lightweight. One of them by matrix.org themselves as a planeed rewrite
   for the slow current server.
   Also bear in mind that the Goverment of France, and the Goverment of
   Germany along with some other providers. Also Kde and Gnome have moved
   there. Matrix is here to stay.

   On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 16:27, Denver Gingerich <denver@ossguy.com>
   wrote:

   On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 06:04:34PM +0200, Msavoritias wrote:

     I wanted a client for Android so i searched on Google play and
     Fdroid but couldn't find one with acceptable design. Proprietary or
     otherwise.

   What is wrong with Conversations?
   [3]https://f-droid.org/app/eu.siacs.conversations
   [4]https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=eu.siacs.conversations

     Plus I have seen that there is a huge shift to Matrix for non-tech
     people. IRC and XMPP seem to stay into obscurity. XMPP would have
     been popular by now. And what good is a system if its not popular? I
     don't want to message my self. Matrix is the only protocol that is
     actively developed, is Free Software (although not AGPL-3), and
     seems to have a consensus by the wider community.

   XMPP is also actively developed and has many free software
   implementations (including some that are AGPLv3, like
   [5]https://jmp.chat/ ). If you want/need a gratis account that supports
   all the important features, see [6]https://dismail.de/register.html .

     Also the clients seem to decently designed.

   See above - is there something Conversations is missing versus the
   Matrix client(s) for Android?

     I'm saying all this because if we want to attract more Free Software
     users, like it or not we need a good presentation with good
     interface. otherwise we risk to fall into obscurity. No, Im not
     saying to use proprietary messaging to attract users.

   I definitely agree. However, I think we need to look at which protocols
   are likely to stand the test of time. Matrix is very new, and the
   server implementation(s?) is extremely resource-heavy. XMPP has been
   around for over 20 years and has multiple lightweight server
   implementations. Denver [7]https://jmp.chat/
   _______________________________________________ libreplanet-discuss
   mailing list [8]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
   [9]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss

References

   1. https://xmpp.org/software/clients.html
   2. https://matrix.org/clients/
   3. https://f-droid.org/app/eu.siacs.conversations
   4. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=eu.siacs.conversations
   5. https://jmp.chat/
   6. https://dismail.de/register.html
   7. https://jmp.chat/
   8. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
   9. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss

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