From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on dcvr.yhbt.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.9 required=3.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,DKIM_INVALID, DKIM_SIGNED,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS shortcircuit=no autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by dcvr.yhbt.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 23B8B1F5AE for ; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 19:30:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:44150 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1k1EG3-0008TR-PO for e@80x24.org; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 15:30:27 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:54990) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1k1EFn-0008Rd-Q0 for libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 15:30:12 -0400 Received: from knopi.disroot.org ([178.21.23.139]:50482) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1k1EFk-0003sl-7f for libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 15:30:11 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by disroot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 439F1528DF; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 21:30:04 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at disroot.org Received: from knopi.disroot.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (disroot.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L0CiZj3XtYAW; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 21:30:02 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2020 21:30:01 +0200 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=disroot.org; s=mail; t=1596137402; bh=xv2XKUPMXjmfNmDOOInrD+igQJlWObNQUZGN6lWvUS8=; h=Date:From:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=cOJ6OuCcBLYR3YBIA50LrnYecbYcd2rJEG1LGbwC6/UcN6hLcmMZ8pJm7mXJv16ge zjDBpmQum+2ohZ8d9fUn8mqWmP54FKP0/ykaR3sAlS9vZQRvE3mQXYsxye1HUx8LjO 9Nb7lvnPfx5o7dsWPy8pPKaMqSdrIup8W9ntAs/PnMNtqz/Wi0C9Ag2aHV+gvYgQjI P4BP4tPKEW9m9GCSQG1KdhXprjpWZZcpCnjC5kMbqgFhFuNn4CeIjfx+6n76iLh8f5 PnUcMoVZ1WVJ7idZOUvKZT7desDZYel2N5mdNO56+sk5pBztZCJ3lFbRlHetPECyMl elq0b2Fh/FTFg== From: Msavoritias Subject: Re: Matrix communication protocol. To: Ali Reza Hayati Cc: libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org Message-Id: <1596137401.28021.0@disroot.org> In-Reply-To: <1ce44447-060f-ecd8-3578-b898c40fa3c5@riseup.net> References: <1595541394.1159.3@disroot.org> <1596039936.1150.2@disroot.org> <20200730043725.GC25289@ossguy.com> <1596125074.1189.0@disroot.org> <1ce44447-060f-ecd8-3578-b898c40fa3c5@riseup.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=178.21.23.139; envelope-from=marinus.savoritias@disroot.org; helo=knopi.disroot.org X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/07/30 15:30:04 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.23 X-BeenThere: libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7317033841403733766==" Errors-To: libreplanet-discuss-bounces+e=80x24.org@libreplanet.org Sender: "libreplanet-discuss" --===============7317033841403733766== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=-xsyhIVpvYFFk1GS4iBZU" --=-xsyhIVpvYFFk1GS4iBZU Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed I am well aware. Personally I rejected it because its not Copyleft. MSavoritias On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 20:51, Ali Reza Hayati wrote: > If you ever considered using Riot (newly renamed to Element), please > note that Riot/Element has Electron and Electron is considered > nonfree. > > Electron has Chromium in it but it doesn't include all licenses of > Chromium so it's a violation of software freedom. > > On 7/30/20 8:34 PM, Msavoritias wrote: >> Dino is not available for Android it seems though. On desktop >> there are >> choices. >> I wanted a client for Android so i searched on Google play and >> Fdroid >> but couldn't find one with acceptable design. Proprietary or >> otherwise. >> I understand that tech people don't care about UI/UX but we need >> some >> nice looking clients. >> Plus I have seen that there is a huge shift to Matrix for >> non-tech >> people. >> IRC and XMPP seem to stay into obscurity. XMPP would have been >> popular >> by now. >> And what good is a system if its not popular? I don't want to >> message >> my self. >> Matrix is the only protocol that is actively developed, is Free >> Software (although not AGPL-3), and seems to have a consensus by >> the >> wider community. Also the clients seem to decently designed. >> I'm saying all this because if we want to attract more Free >> Software >> users, like it or not we need a good presentation with good >> interface. >> otherwise we risk to fall into obscurity. >> No, Im not saying to use proprietary messaging to attract users. >> MSavoritias >> >> On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 04:37, Denver Gingerich >> > >> wrote: >> >> On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 06:25:36PM +0200, Msavoritias wrote: >> >> On Fri, Jul 24, 2020 at 11:47, Adonay Felipe Nogueira via >> libreplanet-discuss <[1]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org >> > wrote: >> Note: I don't speak for FSF, nor for GNU. Em 23/07/2020 18:56, >> Msavoritias escreveu: I would like to ask is it in the works >> to have >> an official FSF/GNU server in the future? Are there any >> blockers I >> can help with? FSF already has XMPP service for their associate >> members. I guess it comes down to personal preference but for >> me I >> didn't see the same features in all the clients I tried and >> almost >> all of them were badly designed. This doesn't help with >> convincing >> people to use XMPP. >> >> Where did you go to determine which XMPP clients to try? And >> which >> clients did you try? I believe there should be better resources >> to >> allow people to more easily find the best XMPP clients - I'm >> trying to >> do my part with the recommendations at >> [2] >> (for the free software service I run). In short, use Gajim or >> Conversations. If you want fancy design but less features, then >> Dino. >> Hopefully we can make these recommendations more widely-known so >> that >> people don't give up on XMPP. It's an excellent protocol and is >> very >> easy to use and featureful if you have the right client. Denver >> [3] >> >> References >> >> 1. >> 2. >> 3. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> libreplanet-discuss mailing list >> libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org >> >> >> > > -- > Ali Reza Hayati > > www.alirezahayati.com > > _______________________________________________ > libreplanet-discuss mailing list > libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org > > --=-xsyhIVpvYFFk1GS4iBZU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I am well aware. Personally I rejected it because its not Copyleft. MSavoritias On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 20:51, Ali Reza Hayati wrote: If you ever considered using Riot (newly renamed to Element), please note that Riot/Element has Electron and Electron is considered nonfree. Electron has Chromium in it but it doesn't include all licenses of Chromium so it's a violation of software freedom. On 7/30/20 8:34 PM, Msavoritias wrote: Dino is not available for Android it seems though. On desktop there are choices. I wanted a client for Android so i searched on Google play and Fdroid but couldn't find one with acceptable design. Proprietary or otherwise. I understand that tech people don't care about UI/UX but we need some nice looking clients. Plus I have seen that there is a huge shift to Matrix for non-tech people. IRC and XMPP seem to stay into obscurity. XMPP would have been popular by now. And what good is a system if its not popular? I don't want to message my self. Matrix is the only protocol that is actively developed, is Free Software (although not AGPL-3), and seems to have a consensus by the wider community. Also the clients seem to decently designed. I'm saying all this because if we want to attract more Free Software users, like it or not we need a good presentation with good interface. otherwise we risk to fall into obscurity. No, Im not saying to use proprietary messaging to attract users. MSavoritias On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 04:37, Denver Gingerich <[1]denver@ossguy.com> wrote: On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 06:25:36PM +0200, Msavoritias wrote: On Fri, Jul 24, 2020 at 11:47, Adonay Felipe Nogueira via libreplanet-discuss <[1][2]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org> wrote: Note: I don't speak for FSF, nor for GNU. Em 23/07/2020 18:56, Msavoritias escreveu: I would like to ask is it in the works to have an official FSF/GNU server in the future? Are there any blockers I can help with? FSF already has XMPP service for their associate members. I guess it comes down to personal preference but for me I didn't see the same features in all the clients I tried and almost all of them were badly designed. This doesn't help with convincing people to use XMPP. Where did you go to determine which XMPP clients to try? And which clients did you try? I believe there should be better resources to allow people to more easily find the best XMPP clients - I'm trying to do my part with the recommendations at [2][3]https://jmp.chat/#clients (for the free software service I run). In short, use Gajim or Conversations. If you want fancy design but less features, then Dino. Hopefully we can make these recommendations more widely-known so that people don't give up on XMPP. It's an excellent protocol and is very easy to use and featureful if you have the right client. Denver [3][4]https://jmp.chat/ References 1. [5]mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org 2. [6]https://jmp.chat/#clients 3. [7]https://jmp.chat/ _______________________________________________ libreplanet-discuss mailing list [8]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org [9]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discus s -- Ali Reza Hayati <[10]hayati@riseup.net> [11]www.alirezahayati.com _______________________________________________ libreplanet-discuss mailing list [12]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org [13]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss References 1. mailto:denver@ossguy.com 2. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org 3. https://jmp.chat/#clients 4. https://jmp.chat/ 5. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org 6. https://jmp.chat/#clients 7. https://jmp.chat/ 8. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org 9. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss 10. mailto:hayati@riseup.net 11. http://www.alirezahayati.com/ 12. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org 13. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss --=-xsyhIVpvYFFk1GS4iBZU-- --===============7317033841403733766== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KbGlicmVwbGFu ZXQtZGlzY3VzcyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QKbGlicmVwbGFuZXQtZGlzY3Vzc0BsaWJyZXBsYW5ldC5v cmcKaHR0cHM6Ly9saXN0cy5saWJyZXBsYW5ldC5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9saWJyZXBs YW5ldC1kaXNjdXNz --===============7317033841403733766==--