From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on dcvr.yhbt.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.9 required=3.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,DKIM_INVALID, DKIM_SIGNED,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS shortcircuit=no autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by dcvr.yhbt.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E52191F5AE for ; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 16:11:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:50746 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1k1B9h-0003xF-JF for e@80x24.org; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 12:11:41 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:60372) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1k1B33-0003ED-6j for libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 12:04:49 -0400 Received: from knopi.disroot.org ([178.21.23.139]:40478) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1k1B2w-0006my-4d for libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 12:04:48 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by disroot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 745E2528D7; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 18:04:39 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at disroot.org Received: from knopi.disroot.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (disroot.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CO84GjerlxvD; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 18:04:37 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2020 18:04:34 +0200 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=disroot.org; s=mail; t=1596125076; bh=GGyravAsjJUfgbOFn0cjbdeGSrhm5xnnQsgddX3pTZ4=; h=Date:From:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=Err4M+GHLiLzjpxFSHOYBQ2oWvgDVhZ8W3f8RUgRQi9j2oHYL3DnjzQhU0ebARdpN kh0LxsWQosFs4RwKaACECp3+UZaOs/M14T2bPxQEvvU9T0vUfvjVrfnZAhLzxwcrPM W6O0EITSsuq833/oWtfJdd+Z9p2/Q4iWaAUREyBn9otU9gmGycd0jiSTL8Og50VhAH rnUU4/+q8F5NT3uU/E8u+cBzgMOML4jCdiwZdURgxdPCtU9ZW57s1o0ieLNccGKSVA R9NUT4Szu+7TFJfmjLBddjW1WqUu07tSBze85uJMLYkA2/QTihSkIG8lDYw7HRrY9J NmmpmIzQYdzdg== From: Msavoritias Subject: Re: Matrix communication protocol. To: Denver Gingerich Cc: Adonay Felipe Nogueira , libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org Message-Id: <1596125074.1189.0@disroot.org> In-Reply-To: <20200730043725.GC25289@ossguy.com> References: <1595541394.1159.3@disroot.org> <1596039936.1150.2@disroot.org> <20200730043725.GC25289@ossguy.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=178.21.23.139; envelope-from=marinus.savoritias@disroot.org; helo=knopi.disroot.org X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/07/30 12:04:39 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam_score_int: -16 X-Spam_score: -1.7 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.23 X-BeenThere: libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2848771952341129122==" Errors-To: libreplanet-discuss-bounces+e=80x24.org@libreplanet.org Sender: "libreplanet-discuss" --===============2848771952341129122== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=-iZMa5IqxZaTkzvgBgpaw" --=-iZMa5IqxZaTkzvgBgpaw Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Dino is not available for Android it seems though. On desktop there are choices. I wanted a client for Android so i searched on Google play and Fdroid but couldn't find one with acceptable design. Proprietary or otherwise. I understand that tech people don't care about UI/UX but we need some nice looking clients. Plus I have seen that there is a huge shift to Matrix for non-tech people. IRC and XMPP seem to stay into obscurity. XMPP would have been popular by now. And what good is a system if its not popular? I don't want to message my self. Matrix is the only protocol that is actively developed, is Free Software (although not AGPL-3), and seems to have a consensus by the wider community. Also the clients seem to decently designed. I'm saying all this because if we want to attract more Free Software users, like it or not we need a good presentation with good interface. otherwise we risk to fall into obscurity. No, Im not saying to use proprietary messaging to attract users. MSavoritias On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 04:37, Denver Gingerich wrote: > On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 06:25:36PM +0200, Msavoritias wrote: >> On Fri, Jul 24, 2020 at 11:47, Adonay Felipe Nogueira via >> libreplanet-discuss > > wrote: >> >> Note: I don't speak for FSF, nor for GNU. Em 23/07/2020 18:56, >> Msavoritias escreveu: >> >> I would like to ask is it in the works to have an official >> FSF/GNU >> server in the future? Are there any blockers I can help with? >> >> FSF already has XMPP service for their associate members. >> >> I guess it comes down to personal preference but for me I didn't >> see >> the same features in all the clients I tried and almost all of >> them >> were badly designed. This doesn't help with convincing people to >> use >> XMPP. > > Where did you go to determine which XMPP clients to try? And which > clients did you try? > > I believe there should be better resources to allow people to more > easily find the best XMPP clients - I'm trying to do my part with the > recommendations at (for the free software > service I run). In short, use Gajim or Conversations. If you want > fancy design but less features, then Dino. > > Hopefully we can make these recommendations more widely-known so that > people don't give up on XMPP. It's an excellent protocol and is very > easy to use and featureful if you have the right client. > > Denver > --=-iZMa5IqxZaTkzvgBgpaw MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dino is not available for Android it seems though. On desktop there are choices. I wanted a client for Android so i searched on Google play and Fdroid but couldn't find one with acceptable design. Proprietary or otherwise. I understand that tech people don't care about UI/UX but we need some nice looking clients. Plus I have seen that there is a huge shift to Matrix for non-tech people. IRC and XMPP seem to stay into obscurity. XMPP would have been popular by now. And what good is a system if its not popular? I don't want to message my self. Matrix is the only protocol that is actively developed, is Free Software (although not AGPL-3), and seems to have a consensus by the wider community. Also the clients seem to decently designed. I'm saying all this because if we want to attract more Free Software users, like it or not we need a good presentation with good interface. otherwise we risk to fall into obscurity. No, Im not saying to use proprietary messaging to attract users. MSavoritias On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 04:37, Denver Gingerich wrote: On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 06:25:36PM +0200, Msavoritias wrote: On Fri, Jul 24, 2020 at 11:47, Adonay Felipe Nogueira via libreplanet-discuss <[1]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org> wrote: Note: I don't speak for FSF, nor for GNU. Em 23/07/2020 18:56, Msavoritias escreveu: I would like to ask is it in the works to have an official FSF/GNU server in the future? Are there any blockers I can help with? FSF already has XMPP service for their associate members. I guess it comes down to personal preference but for me I didn't see the same features in all the clients I tried and almost all of them were badly designed. This doesn't help with convincing people to use XMPP. Where did you go to determine which XMPP clients to try? And which clients did you try? I believe there should be better resources to allow people to more easily find the best XMPP clients - I'm trying to do my part with the recommendations at [2]https://jmp.chat/#clients (for the free software service I run). In short, use Gajim or Conversations. If you want fancy design but less features, then Dino. Hopefully we can make these recommendations more widely-known so that people don't give up on XMPP. It's an excellent protocol and is very easy to use and featureful if you have the right client. Denver [3]https://jmp.chat/ References 1. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org 2. https://jmp.chat/#clients 3. https://jmp.chat/ --=-iZMa5IqxZaTkzvgBgpaw-- --===============2848771952341129122== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KbGlicmVwbGFu ZXQtZGlzY3VzcyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QKbGlicmVwbGFuZXQtZGlzY3Vzc0BsaWJyZXBsYW5ldC5v cmcKaHR0cHM6Ly9saXN0cy5saWJyZXBsYW5ldC5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9saWJyZXBs YW5ldC1kaXNjdXNz --===============2848771952341129122==--